What next for Rodgers?

[Silver Sean]

Remove any emotion or this totally out-moded idea that we will 'become another Newcastle' if we sack him (Pardew was there for over four years) and it's clear that FSG trusting that BR and his backroom staff can turn this around, attract the players we need and lead Liverpool to winning something is unlikely at best. For me this season he had to make his mark. The FA Cup semi defeat was pathetic. That was were he defined his tenure. The European collapse (twice) this season was close.

Three years, not even a sniff of a trophy.
Spent poorly.
Can't coach a defence.
Continually fails to deliver in crunch situations.
Displays hubris and denial in equal measure.
Finished 6th after pitiful collapse. Worst defeat for 52 years. I'll type that again. Worst defeat in 52 years.
Sends out a team with no belief, no structure, and no fight.

If FSG think this guy is the future of the club then they are even more clueless about football than we feared.

 

[FoxForceFive]

He also probably meant judge his three years, half of which consisted of title challenging form. Like I said, don't talk to me about perspective and three year tenures if you're going to select which bit reflect his reign.

OK, here's my perspective.

In three years he hasn't once proved he can successfully organise a defence. He hasn't once won a 'must win' game, every single match where anything big has ridden on the result (semi finals, the crystal palace & Chelsea games last season, the Utd game this season). He hasn't been even adequate in European competition, being embarrassed by minnows. He has been out thought & tactically inept time & again.

Add all that together, & even ignoring the transfer activities it's enough to warrant considering changing the manager.

Now add in the last few games this season, where he's allowed the Gerrard situation to become bigger than the clubs aims & almost encouraged it, & worse than that, he's seemingly lost the players, as there's no way a manager oversees consecutive performances like we've seen if he has the support of the players, & it adds the final nail to the coffin.

Just my opinion of course, but none of the reasons I'm giving or I've used are to do with league position or even points, I'm with Ross on that, there's more to deciding a manager than league position or points, & in the important issues Rodgers is found wanting.

 

[davud graham]

If you're going to start believing everything football people (not just Rodgers but anyone involved in football) say in the press then it's probably time to call it a day.

I never said i believed him. Quite the opposite. Personally i think that some signings were forced on him but his ego wouldn't allow him to admit that as it would seem weak. He likes to portray himself as a manager who has real influence at the club when i suspect he has very little.

 

[HC]

Red ninja was making threads about us finishing second in March!

 

[FoxForceFive]

Silver Sean beat me to it by seconds!

 

[Silver Sean]

OK, here's my perspective.

In three years he hasn't once proved he can successfully organise a defence. He hasn't once won a 'must win' game, every single match where anything big has ridden on the result (semi finals, the crystal palace & Chelsea games last season, the Utd game this season). He hasn't been even adequate in European competition, being embarrassed by minnows. He has been out thought & tactically inept time & again.

Add all that together, & even ignoring the transfer activities it's enough to warrant considering changing the manager.

Now add in the last few games this season, where he's allowed the Gerrard situation to become bigger than the clubs aims & almost encouraged it, & worse than that, he's seemingly lost the players, as there's no way a manager oversees consecutive performances like we've seen if he has the support of the players, & it adds the final nail to the coffin.

Just my opinion of course, but none of the reasons I'm giving or I've used are to do with league position or even points, I'm with Ross on that, there's more to deciding a manager than league position or points, & in the important issues Rodgers is found wanting.

Excellent post. I find it hard to believe so many of our fans think he will ever replicate finishing second. By the way those who do, finishing second is not an achievement.

 

[mark1975]

"Not even a sniff of nearly winning a trophy", apart from the title.

 

[keniget]

I never said i believed him. Quite the opposite. Personally i think that some signings were forced on him but his ego wouldn't allow him to admit that as it would seem weak. He likes to portray himself as a manager who has real influence at the club when i suspect he has very little.

Perhaps I didn't make my point very well, which was that it's pointless reading that much into what is said to the press.

Rodgers was never going to admit that Mario wasn't his signing. No manager would - not at that time. It's got very little to do with him or his ego.

It's like when a player says he's going to stay for sure and then leaves or the board give the manager the dreaded vote of confidence before sacking him or a manager says that it wasn't a pen when the world and his dog could see that it was and so forth and so forth.

It's pointless holding anyone to anything they say in the media because it's mostly fake.

 

[StevieM]

Red ninja was making threads about us finishing second in March!

The jinxy fucker....

 

[Mors]

What next for Rodgers is managing a very important summer of transfers as he'll be our manager next year. He's got some soul searching to do as he ideally needs to ship out 4 of our strikers that he bought.

 

[davud graham]

Perhaps I didn't make my point very well, which was that it's pointless reading that much into what is said to the press.

Rodgers was never going to admit that Mario wasn't his signing. No manager would - not at that time. It's got very little to do with him or his ego.

It's like when a player says he's going to stay for sure and then leaves or the board give the manager the dreaded vote of confidence before sacking him or a manager says that it wasn't a pen when the world and his dog could see that it was and so forth and so forth.

It's pointless holding anyone to anything they say in the media because it's mostly fake.

When Rodgers was initially approached about the job it was all over the press (and i'm sure it was with his approval) that if he was to be considered for the job then he wouldn't accept a director of football above him but wanted full control. By all accounts FSG were impressed by this for some reason.Then the transfer committee came about which is a de facto director of football (at least in terms of transfers) and Rodgers still wanted to spin this a him having the final say. I can understand that what managers or players say about specific games (especially straight after) need to be taken with a pinch of salt but when it's about the management structure of a club in a press conference where emotion isn't a factor then i expect to be told the truth. If he doesn't want to answer the questions of who has final say on transfers then fine but he shouldn't try and pretend he does. I think he likes the vagueness and uncertainty about who signs players as it enables him to preen about the successful ones and wash his hands of the duds.

 

[Silver Sean]

"Not even a sniff of nearly winning a trophy", apart from the title.

Mark, at some point you have to let that go. Yes, we overachieved in a season when we had no European football, our rivals were weaker and we had a truly world-class maverick who was instrumental in dragging us to second. But we finished second when the right tactics against Mourinho would have lead to us winning it. That's on the manager. I don't think finishing second is an achievement.
We've just seen a season where we looked utterly clueless, ending with our worst defeat in 52 years to finish 6th. A few weeks earlier we were hot on the tail of United and could have overhauled them and got 4th. But we did what we always do when his team need to show real toughness and spirit. We collapsed. We finally got into the CL and we were embarrassed. This is Liverpool we're talking about here. One of the tiny number of teams that have the honour of wearing the blue CL badge for our outstanding achievements in Europe. We are not some European non-entity who should be delighted just to be in the competition.
I understand you believe in this manager, but many of us don't. I have no agenda. I have no interest in saying 'I'm right'. Please believe me when I say I desperately want to be wrong. But we cannot afford another season like this. I can't see how the same set up next season will give us anything other than the same results.
I don't understand why anyone thinks that what he's done over three years is good enough for a club like Liverpool.
Are our expectations so low now? I know you think we should show some loyalty to the manager, but what evidence is there he can turn this around? What players will he even be able to attract?

As always, I hope I'm wrong. I hope that this time next year we have some silverware, we have a team to be proud of and we're not a laughing stock like we are now. If it's with this manager, then great. But Liverpool Football Club exists to succeed, to win trophies, to make true fans proud and to stand out for all the right reasons.

 

[mark1975]

I have every ability to "let it go", I just can't be arsed with people making exaggerated comments to give him a kicking, or playing the challenge down as over achievement. It's selective reasoning that suits your argument.

 

[Silver Sean]

I have every ability to "let it go", I just can't be arsed with people making exaggerated comments to give him a kicking, or playing the challenge down as over achievement. It's selective reasoning that suits your argument.

Quite the opposite. How you can view any of the realties of this season as exaggerated is beyond me. Ho hum. You want him to stay. I want him to go. Whatever. We can't do dick about it.

 

[Bradley]

F*ck it.

If he's staying, I've got his back. Hopefully this will be a case of whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger and he learns from this season.

Onwards and upwards Brendan.*

*If we ended up getting Carlo/Klopp that would I'd learn to live with the lose of Rodgers.

 

[Insignificance]

F*ck it.

If he's staying, I've got his back. Hopefully this will be a case of whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger and he learns from this season.

Onwards and upwards Brendan.*

*If we ended up getting Carlo/Klopp that would I'd learn to live with the lose of Rodgers.

If that is the case, what did he learn from the campaign up to xmas that made us loose 2-9 against Crystal Palace and Stoke?

 

[mark1975]

If that is the case, what did he learn from the campaign up to xmas that made us loose 2-9 against Crystal Palace and Stoke?

What?

 

[Bradley]

If that is the case, what did he learn from the campaign up to xmas that made us loose 2-9 against Crystal Palace and Stoke?

I don't imagine he had a lot of time on his hands for reflection during the season and ended up trying to muddle through without any real plan or strategy. That's how it looked in by the end of the season, a total mess.

Assuming he stays he will have a bit of time over the summer to look back at the season and come up with some new ideas for next season.

 

[Oncy]

Werent the Manchester City and Spurs games at the end of last season 'Must win games'?

Isnt having a chance of winning the title on the last day of the season and two cup semi finals a sniff of winning a trophy?

Hasnt he taken the team on its two longest unbeaten runs in the premier league era?

There are loads of thing he has fucked up with, but the 'EVERYTHING' line seems a bit ott to me.

We lost 50 goals through Suarez and Sturridge and scored 50 goals less than last year.
We kept MORE clean sheets than last year. We got to two semi finals after bombing out last year.
Im not saying thats good enough, its not at all, but there are areas of progress.
And in context we have probably the youngest squad in the top 7 so plenty of room for improvement. Can he improve us? Fuck knows. The Balotelli experiment was the one really bad thing that happened last summer in my opinion, I cant blame him for leaving Balo, Lambert and Borini on the bench because they were shit when they played.
If we had replaced Suarez with say (eg) Griezmann or Lacazette and Sturridge had played more than 7 games does anyone not think we would be top 4?

I dunno, im just writing whats in my head, not really much point too it and as ive said if a top replacement was/is available we should take it same as we would with any player. I just think we are judging harshly on a man doing his best.

If Chelsea sold Hazard in summer and instead of signing Costa signed Just Remy and then Oscar was injured all season they wouldnt be top.
If Aguero left city in summer and silva was injured all season they would be about 15th

 

[leftpeg]

If that is the case, what did he learn from the campaign up to xmas that made us loose 2-9 against Crystal Palace and Stoke?

This 2-9 thing is bollocks. We once beat Man Utd and Real Madrid 8-1 but in the final analysis it did us fuck all good in either competition.

 

[leftpeg]

Werent the Manchester City and Spurs games at the end of last season 'Must win games'?

Isnt having a chance of winning the title on the last day of the season and two cup semi finals a sniff of winning a trophy?

Hasnt he taken the team on its two longest unbeaten runs in the premier league era?

There are loads of thing he has fucked up with, but the 'EVERYTHING' line seems a bit ott to me.

We lost 50 goals through Suarez and Sturridge and scored 50 goals less than last year.
We kept MORE clean sheets than last year. We got to two semi finals after bombing out last year.
Im not saying thats good enough, its not at all, but there are areas of progress.
And in context we have probably the youngest squad in the top 7 so plenty of room for improvement. Can he improve us? Fuck knows. The Balotelli experiment was the one really bad thing that happened last summer in my opinion, I cant blame him for leaving Balo, Lambert and Borini on the bench because they were shit when they played.
If we had replaced Suarez with say (eg) Griezmann or Lacazette and Sturridge had played more than 7 games does anyone not think we would be top 4?

I dunno, im just writing whats in my head, not really much point too it and as ive said if a top replacement was/is available we should take it same as we would with any player. I just think we are judging harshly on a man doing his best.

If Chelsea sold Hazard in summer and instead of signing Costa signed Just Remy and then Oscar was injured all season they wouldnt be top.
If Aguero left city in summer and silva was injured all season they would be about 15th

Exactamundo.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Assuming he stays he will have a bit of time over the summer to look back at the season and come up with some new ideas for next season.

Oh fucking hell.....

This is the bit one Dreads.. We are allowing this prat to use the club as his apprenticeship..

I don't know what's worse the thought of him staying or the thought of listening to him waffle on about his philosophies and game plans..

'Look at Tottenham. If you spend £100m, you expect to be challenging for the league.'

'biggest mentor is myself because I've had to study, so that's been my biggest influence'..

Oh shit... We are in big trouble...

'When you’ve got the ball 65-70% of the time, it’s a football death for the other team. We’re not at that stage yet, but that’s what we will get to. It’s death by football. You just suck the life out of them.'

Liverpool 0-0 Hull – 66%

Newcastle 1-0 Liverpool – 65%

Liverpool 0-1 Aston Villa – 75% possession

Error ???

 

[peterhague]

Yeah I think too much is made of the Chelsea game and too little of the City game. The City game was a great victory, and I've always felt he's unfairly maligned for the Chelsea result. Gerrard made a mistake and it killed us. I'm not sure what it had to do with pushing for a win when he only needed a draw.

And of course there were plenty of other key games we came through under huge pressure. The Palace debacle is a better example of him being culpable.

As to how you begin comparing a sustained title challenge with, say, winning a league cup, who knows? Does winning a cup show some kind of definite nerve and winning mentality that nearly winning a title doesn't? How is such a thing measured? What if all your opponents in the cup are inferior? Is that winner's mentality less necessary? What if your opponents in a failed title challenge are superior? Does that mean the losing manager is less of a winner? Or even an incurable loser?

 

[davud graham]

I dislike the way he talks about matches as if he was helpless to change anything when it started to go wrong. Too often he's bemoaned that we started slowly in games without seeming to know how to address it so it doesn't happen again. Or we don't score enough goals. Again is there nothing you can do about that at all?
We were disappointed with some of our defending. Then sort it out.

On a side point we lost to the first decent team we played in the League cup. In the FA cup we got a decent result against palace but other than that the next best team we played was Villa who embarrassed us at Wembley. The European campaigns were shambolic and we couldn't complain about dismal ejections from the Champions League and the Europa League.
As far as the league is concerned we might have gotten 12 clean sheets but that's somewhat counteracted by not scoring in 8 games. We also had our worst start since 1964-65 , the first time we have conceded six goals in the league since 1963, we dropped from second to 6th and only conceded 2 goals less than last season when most people believe it was the defence that ultimately cost us the league. And we also only won 2 out our last 9 league games.

 

[tomasjj]

The beach, I hope.

 

[King Binny]

How many of us were really confident of winning either of the domestic cups? Just as league positions shouldn't be the only way to judge a manager's work, the cup runs can be a little sketchy too.

FA Cup
- 2 replays against Bolton, Blackburn after goal-less draws at home. Won them by 1 goal margin (86th min equalizer, 90th min winner vs. Bolton)
- Only EPL clubs met: Crystal Palace (won 2-1), Aston Villa (lost)

League Cup
- Drew 2-2 after extra time in 3rd round vs Middlesbrough, pk shootout victory of 14-13
- Only EPL clubs met: Swansea (won 2-1 - 86th min equalizer, 90th min winner), Chelsea (lost, 2-1 on aggregate)

 

[leftpeg]

How many of us were really confident of winning either of the domestic cups? Just as league positions shouldn't be the only way to judge a manager's work, the cup runs can be a little sketchy too.

FA Cup
- 2 replays against Bolton, Blackburn after goal-less draws at home. Won them by 1 goal margin (86th min equalizer, 90th min winner vs. Bolton)
- Only EPL clubs met: Crystal Palace (won 2-1), Aston Villa (lost)

League Cup
- Drew 2-2 after extra time in 3rd round vs Middlesbrough, pk shootout victory of 14-13
- Only EPL clubs met: Swansea (won 2-1 - 86th min equalizer, 90th min winner), Chelsea (lost, 2-1 on aggregate)

Yeah we had a bit of a scrap to get to both semi-finals but we were unlucky to lose to Chelsea and admittedly were diabolical against Villa. Not that it matters a jot but I think we would have won the league cup final and lost the FA Cup final had we reached either.

 

[davud graham]

How many of us were really confident of winning either of the domestic cups? Just as league positions shouldn't be the only way to judge a manager's work, the cup runs can be a little sketchy too.

FA Cup
- 2 replays against Bolton, Blackburn after goal-less draws at home. Won them by 1 goal margin (86th min equalizer, 90th min winner vs. Bolton)
- Only EPL clubs met: Crystal Palace (won 2-1), Aston Villa (lost)

League Cup
- Drew 2-2 after extra time in 3rd round vs Middlesbrough, pk shootout victory of 14-13
- Only EPL clubs met: Swansea (won 2-1 - 86th min equalizer, 90th min winner), Chelsea (lost, 2-1 on aggregate)

If we can't judge a manager by his league campaigns or his success in cups how are we to judge him?

 

[King Binny]

If we can't judge a manager by his league campaigns or his success in cups how are we to judge him?

"shouldn't be the only way" as I mentioned.

I agree with @FoxForceFive 's post: http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/what-next-for-rodgers.67256/page-3#post-1287143

Yeah we had a bit of a scrap to get to both semi-finals but we were unlucky to lose to Chelsea and admittedly were diabolical against Villa. Not that it matters a jot but I think we would have one the league cup final and lost the FA Cup final had we reached either.

Not trying to discredit him for his role in the cup run but just felt there was a huge slice of fortune involved. Can't remember too many good and worthy performances during both runs.

 

[tony]

Werent the Manchester City and Spurs games at the end of last season 'Must win games'?

Isnt having a chance of winning the title on the last day of the season and two cup semi finals a sniff of winning a trophy?

Hasnt he taken the team on its two longest unbeaten runs in the premier league era?

There are loads of thing he has fucked up with, but the 'EVERYTHING' line seems a bit ott to me.

We lost 50 goals through Suarez and Sturridge and scored 50 goals less than last year.
We kept MORE clean sheets than last year. We got to two semi finals after bombing out last year.
Im not saying thats good enough, its not at all, but there are areas of progress.
And in context we have probably the youngest squad in the top 7 so plenty of room for improvement. Can he improve us? Fuck knows. The Balotelli experiment was the one really bad thing that happened last summer in my opinion, I cant blame him for leaving Balo, Lambert and Borini on the bench because they were shit when they played.
If we had replaced Suarez with say (eg) Griezmann or Lacazette and Sturridge had played more than 7 games does anyone not think we would be top 4?

I dunno, im just writing whats in my head, not really much point too it and as ive said if a top replacement was/is available we should take it same as we would with any player. I just think we are judging harshly on a man doing his best.

If Chelsea sold Hazard in summer and instead of signing Costa signed Just Remy and then Oscar was injured all season they wouldnt be top.
If Aguero left city in summer and silva was injured all season they would be about 15th

Last season we shipped far too many goals and our superb strikeforce bailed us out over and over again by outscoring the opposition. Sure we have missed them really badly, although he did have the money to replace Suarez, but the really damning thing is we have shipped almost exactly the same number of goals this season. He has had three years to organise the defence and yet here we are unable to defend corners properly or even set up a decent wall against free kicks. If we had tightened up the defence and maybe turned some of those losses into draws we may have even scaped into the CL. I can't see him being able to turn this around, next season will be exactly the same imho. Depressing