What’s the point? We won’t buy anyone anyway.
Different Gravy
- Thread starter rurikbird
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Fat Sam enters the chat
The sponsorship is for the right to call Gravy ... Bisto. Not on a shirt !
You would hate the 5 different shirts I have with my name on
It’s all gravy baby.
He's a fucking class act.
That little gliding run across their back line last night before teeing up Mo was sensational. The quality was there in glimpses last season but the transformation has been unprecedented, how quickly he's put it all together to become one of the first names on the team sheet.
That little gliding run across their back line last night before teeing up Mo was sensational. The quality was there in glimpses last season but the transformation has been unprecedented, how quickly he's put it all together to become one of the first names on the team sheet.
He reminds me at times of Xavi Hernandez. Not so much the passing range, but his ability to receive the ball and turn in a single fluid motion, then progressing the ball through a dribble or a pass. And also how he uses his body to shield the ball from the opposition. He hasn't been dispossessed by an opponent since the Bologna game.
Basically, once a team-mate finds him with a pass, it's hard for the opposition to take the ball off him, they just have to hope he mis-places his pass or makes the wrong run.
Basically, once a team-mate finds him with a pass, it's hard for the opposition to take the ball off him, they just have to hope he mis-places his pass or makes the wrong run.
You're talking about this?
View: https://www.tiktok.com/@technica.football/video/7426289529268538657
Let the ball do the work
And this guy got player of the year...
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/95klth/pass_master_henderson/
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/95klth/pass_master_henderson/
I have an Arsenal mate who messaged this morning saying it was the first game he’s watched Liverpool properly this season and was incredibly impressed by #38.
That's why he was #2 in my MotM selection 😉
I simply can't fathom what an excellent player he's 'become' compared to last season (yes I know different position and tactics but still ...).
How Gravenberch became Liverpool's answer to Bellingham
Liverpool wanted to sign Jude Bellingham before he joined Real Madrid in 2023, but Ryan Gravenberch has proven to be a fine replacement option.
Three years ago, two of the most talked about young players in Europe faced off for the first time as senior professionals in the Champions League. On that night it was Ryan Gravenberch who got the better of Jude Bellingham as Ajax routed Borussia Dortmund 4-0 at the Johan Cruyff Arena.
The duo are now with different clubs -- Gravenberch at Liverpool; Bellingham at Real Madrid -- and will share a pitch again on Wednesday night as their teams battle it out in the revamped Champions League at Anfield. But a lot has changed since 2021.
Both can be considered among Europe's elite midfielders, but their respective journeys have been wildly different. Bellingham's ascent has been swift and meteoric; Gravenberch's has been less straightforward.
Had Liverpool not ended their pursuit of Bellingham ahead of the 2023 summer window, there is every chance Gravenberch's transfer from Bayern Munich that same summer would not have materialised. But though it took the Dutchman some time to settle, his evolution has helped propel Liverpool to new heights this term.
"He had something special about him"
Born in Amsterdam, Gravenberch spent much of his childhood striving to emulate his older brother, Danzell. In an interview with The Guardian, the 22-year-old credited Danzell with "toughening him up" during street football matches and the pair both came through the ranks at the Ajax academy.
While the older Gravenberch sibling has since gone on to represent 13 different clubs at various levels across his career so far -- his latest stop is FC Den Bosch in the Dutch second tier -- it was always clear his younger brother was destined for the top.
"When he was about four years old, we used to take Ryan to play football on a Sunday morning and playing against boys who were seven or eight years old, he was always the best player," Gravenberch's father, Ryan Sr., tells ESPN. "Me and my wife would always look at each other and be like 'Huh?' We couldn't believe it. Then, as he got older, we started to see he had a certain skillset that just wasn't normal. From a very early age, we could tell he was a special boy."
It was a similar story when Gravenberch began playing for local club AVV Zeeburgia -- widely dubbed the "royal supplier" due to their track record for producing professional Dutch players, including former Manchester United defender Timothy Fosu-Mensah and ex-PSV Eindhoven winger Luciano Narsingh -- and when he joined Ajax, where he shared an age group with Netherlands internationals Kenneth Taylor and Brian Brobbey.
"From the first time he stepped on the pitch, you could see he was a good player," Peter van der Veen, who began coaching Gravenberch at Ajax under-15 level, tells ESPN. "He had something special about him. At Ajax, we worked back then with mentors and I was one of his, so that means you have more contact with the player and try to help develop him.
"He stood out even as a kid. After three months at U15 level, he was already too good for the team so we tried to challenge him by moving him up to a higher age group where he would be playing against the bigger guys and still trying to be the best.
"Sometimes he would even go two age groups higher, but still he could cope with the pressure. Even against the bigger players, he was so hard to get off the ball when he was in possession."
Gravenberch's potential put him on the radar of Europe's top clubs from a young age, with Liverpool among the interested parties even before they signing him as a senior player. In 2018, at 16 years and 130 days, he became the youngest-ever Ajax player to feature in the Eredivisie, surpassing the record set by Clarence Seedorf in 1992. By the 2021-22 season, he was a regular in the first team and, having already made more than a century of appearances for Ajax, the midfielder caught the eye of Liverpool again and was added to the club's list of midfield targets that summer.
Bayern Munich were also tracking him and it was the German giants who landed his signature for a fee of €20 million. But things didn't go as planned. Across Gravenberch's lone campaign at the Allianz Arena, he managed just 938 minutes of competitive action, starting three times in the Bundesliga.
"He is, of course, sad that he doesn't play much, but not frustrated or angry at all," Bayern boss Julian Nagelsmann told Sky Sport Deutschland in October 2022.
"He's a great guy, who will continue his development. I've told him that he is going to be one of the best midfielders in the world one day, and I'm committed to that. He just has to adjust a few things, and he will do that."
However, by the following March, Nagelsmann had been sacked and his successor, Thomas Tuchel, also struggled to find a place for Gravenberch in his starting XI. After a whirlwind few years, the midfielder suddenly found himself at a crossroads.
Liverpool end Bellingham pursuit
While Gravenberch's career was stagnating at Bayern, Bellingham's went from strength to strength at Dortmund. Though Dortmund fell short in the 2022-23 Bundesliga title race, the England midfielder -- signed as a 17-year-old from Birmingham City for €30m in the summer of 2020 -- established himself as the German league's leading star with eight goals and five assists in 31 games.
During his time at the club, Bellingham broke many records, becoming the youngest player to reach a century of appearances for Dortmund and winning the Bundesliga's Player of the Season award for 2022-23. And of course, he was regularly linked with a move to a host of European giants, including Liverpool.
"I don't like to talk about money when you talk about a player like him," Jurgen Klopp said in a news conference in December 2022. "Everyone can see he is just exceptional. If you mention to someone who has no clue about football: 'How old do you think Jude Bellingham is?' I don't think anyone would get even close to his age. They would say 28 or 29 because he plays so mature."
While Klopp made no secret of his admiration for Bellingham, Liverpool opted against pursuing him as a transfer target, with sources at the time telling ESPN's Mark Ogden that the cost of a proposed €100m move would prevent the club from strengthening elsewhere. The decision was hugely unpopular with fans and led to extensive criticism of Liverpool's owners, Fenway Sports Group (FSG). However, Klopp publicly defended the club's stance, giving a pragmatic assessment of their position.
"We are not children," he said in a news conference in April 2023. "Ask a five-year-old what they want for Christmas and they say a Ferrari, you wouldn't say that's a good idea, it's too expensive and you cannot drive it. It's what can you do and then you do it, and work with that. It's always how I've worked. Whatever we need and what we want, we try absolutely everything to get it. You have to accept that this or that is not possible for us. We'll step aside and do different stuff."
So, with a Ferrari firmly off the table (Bellingham moved to Real Madrid for an initial €103m in June 2023), Klopp and Liverpool had to scour the market for more financially workable alternatives.
Klopp's 2023 midfield rebuild
With Michael Edwards leaving his position as Liverpool's sporting director in 2022, and his replacement, Julian Ward, following suit after just a year in the job, interim Jorg Schmadtke was tasked with orchestrating the club's midfield rebuild in the summer of 2023.
Out went captain Jordan Henderson (£12m to Al Ettifaq), Fabinho (£40m to Al Ittihad), Naby Keïta (free transfer to Werder Bremen), James Milner (free transfer to Brighton & Hove Albion) and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (free transfer to Besiktas). In came Alexis Mac Allister (£35m from Brighton), Dominik Szoboszlai (£60m from RB Leipzig) and Wataru Endo (£16.2m from VfB Stuttgart).
But with other midfield targets Moisés Caicedo (£115m) and Romeo Lavia (£53m) having snubbed Liverpool in favour of a move to Chelsea, there was a lingering sense that the club were still light in the middle of the park with deadline day approaching.
Liverpool's readiness to stump up the cash for Caicedo, having deemed Bellingham too expensive just a few months prior, caused consternation in some quarters of the fanbase. Klopp, however, was quick to point to the unexpected departures of Henderson and Fabinho when pressed on the reasoning behind the club's change of approach.
"We have not endless resources," he said in a news conference. "We didn't expect a couple of things happening in the summer -- Hendo, Fab, stuff like this. We didn't think about this before the summer to be honest, and when it happened, we gave it a go. Obviously, the club was really stretched, to be honest."
While Liverpool's interest in Gravenberch was longstanding, it wasn't until the final few days of the transfer window that Bayern agreed to sanction his exit. Only then did Liverpool make their move, signing the Netherlands international on a five-year contract for £34m.
"Jurgen Klopp was very important to Ryan and also to us," Gravenberch Sr. tells ESPN. "Obviously, he didn't really get a chance at Bayern Munich and that was very, very hard for him. Then Jurgen FaceTimed him, with me alongside him, and he was such a positive guy. When the deal was done and he came to Liverpool, he kept all of his promises. A lot of people said Ryan didn't play a lot last season but I don't think that's true.
"He played a lot considering it was his first season in the Premier League and he was such a young player. Jurgen kept his end of the bargain. He would put his arm around Ryan when he needed it, which is important for a young player who doesn't have a lot of confidence."
Gravenberch started just 12 games in the Premier League as Liverpool finished third behind Manchester City and Arsenal. Meanwhile, Bellingham shot to superstardom in Madrid, scoring 23 goals in 42 games in all competitions to win LaLiga and the Champions League, was named LaLiga Player of the Year and finished third in the 2024 Ballon d'Or.
Still, Gravenberch's maiden season on Merseyside afforded him the opportunity to get up to speed with the Premier League and, even more crucially, to enjoy playing football regularly again.
"I have a good connection with [Klopp]," the midfielder told TNT Sports in December 2023. "When he has something to say to me about the game, or something else, we just talk with each other. I have a good connection with him. He just gives me confidence, to give me minutes on the pitch again. He just told me: 'Enjoy the game again.' And that's what I did. With the minutes, the confidence came back."
Slot's impact
For the second consecutive year in 2024, Liverpool spent the summer at the centre of one of Europe's most high-profile transfer sagas. With Richard Hughes installed as sporting director and former Feyenoord boss Arne Slot having taken the reins from Klopp, the club's transfer strategy largely hinged on the idea of opportunism.
It was for that reason Liverpool opted to pursue a €60m deal for Real Sociedad defensive midfielder Martín Zubimendi, who had impressed in the Euro 2024 final when he replaced the injured Rodri at half-time to help Spain to victory over England.
While Slot claimed that he wasn't looking to make many personnel changes that summer, the 25-year-old became Liverpool's top transfer target and they agreed a deal with Real Sociedad to pay his release clause. However, despite receiving assurances that Zubimendi was keen on a move to Anfield, the club once again failed to get their man after La Real launched an 11th-hour charm offensive that proved hugely impactful on a player who had joined them at the age of 12.
And so, with that elusive, ball-playing No. 6 proving impossible to secure in the transfer market, Slot and his team instead chose to look inwards. While Gravenberch had been deployed primarily as a No. 8 during his first season at Liverpool, he had enjoyed great success at Ajax playing in a double pivot alongside Edson Álvarez.
"When you're a good player, you can play anywhere and I think that's the case with Ryan," Van der Veen tells ESPN. "You see he is the connection now between the back and the front. We used to push him a bit higher up the pitch, but we always knew he could play everywhere."
Gravenberch was trialled in the No. 6 role in preseason, starting there in friendlies against Sevilla and Manchester United, as well as in Liverpool's Premier League opener at Ipswich Town. And it was the Dutchman's impressive display at Portman Road -- he had the third-most touches (71) and second-most passes completed (51) of any Liverpool player -- that helped reinforce Slot's belief that, even without Zubimendi, his squad was well-equipped to excel at the highest level.
"Last season, Macca (Mac Allister) played there a lot and I think he has certain qualities that Ryan has as well," Slot said in a news conference after the win over Ipswich. "If you look at both players, the first thing you think of is with the ball, in ball possession and that's why we as a team have to make sure that whoever is playing in that position is not too exposed.
"That's what happened today because I think the team really helped to defend in the best possible way, and because of that Ryan had a good performance."
Three months on and both Gravenberch and Liverpool appear to be going from strength to strength. Slot's side have an eight-point lead at the top of Premier League table, have won all four of their matches in the Champions League, and are in the quarterfinals of the Carabao Cup.
The campaign has been peppered with standout performances, but Gravenberch's emergence has been central to their rise.
"We are God-believing people, and we think God sent Arne to us and to Liverpool," Gravenberch Sr. tells ESPN. "Obviously he's Dutch so when he explains something to Ryan, he can understand it very clearly. He communicates superbly. The main thing he's said to Ryan is: 'I'm going to play you and so it is on you to maintain playing.' He was very clear about that and that has worked for both sides."
Having guided Gravenberch through some of his formative years, Van der Veen also thinks the midfielder's relationship with Slot has helped take him to another level.
"Being in England now, Ryan has Slot almost as a father figure," he says. "I think he's a player who needs that extra 2% to feel confident of the coach and Slot seems to be doing a really great job with him."
According to Opta, Gravenberch is the only midfielder in Europe's big-five leagues to make both 30+ tackles and 30+ interceptions in all competitions this season. He has already started the same number of Premier League games as he did in the entirety of last term and his status as one of Liverpool's main men amplifies with every passing week.
"I was at the (2-0 win over Brentford) at Anfield earlier in the season and, one minute before the game ended, Arne took Ryan off so he could get the applause," Gravenberch Sr. says. "I was in the stands and the whole stadium stood up and applauded. I just broke down because I thought: 'They're doing this for my boy.' That was the moment where I thought: 'This is it.'"
With plenty of big games to come for Liverpool in the months ahead, there will no doubt be plenty of opportunities for Gravenberch Jr. to earn another serenade from the Kop. Should such a moment arrive against Real Madrid on Wednesday night, it will be another reminder of how Liverpool's unsuccessful pursuit of Bellingham at least delivered one major silver lining.
View: https://x.com/lfcsim/status/1862231990788821160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1862231990788821160%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=
Watching this, its really apparent how good his weight of pass is.
Its quick and direct to feet, without being so fast you can't control it easily. Then its measured when playing for the man to run onto.
Add this to his ability to turn, keep the ball, read the game and win the ball back, do we have another world class player with Alli, VVD, and Salah?
Big props to Slot for (a) spotting the fit between player and position and (b) making it work. Cliché or not, it really is like a new signing.
He's performing at world class level this season (like Konate).
If he keeps this form up for another 2 years, then yes, he's a world class player.
it's crazy to think a) how Bayern missed on such a talent b) how Klopp didn't take advantage of it and c) how so many clubs didn't take advantage of the cost when we were in for him.
Ryan is a nice boy and gets on well with his peers. Strengths: full body turn; Weaknesses: not twatting the ball into the oppo's nets often.
Tries hard but could do better - B+.
Tries hard but could do better - B+.
If he adds goals to his game he can be one of the best midfielders in the world.
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