When being big and fucking hard just isn't enough

[Halmeister]

I think he could have done what the likes of Totti have done late on in their career and play further up the pitch in an attacking playmaker role. It wouldn't have required much running and would have spared him the defensive responsibilities. I fear it's too late for that now, though.

 

[Modo]

Lucas is even less mobile and more knackered than Gerrard. It's a stupid suggestion.

so was xabi.

 

[Frogfish]

So that graphs tells us the team finished the season strongly. I knew that already.

Actually Peggy it doesn't.

Since these are points assigned to players based on their individual performances there are exactly the same points available for each match so how the team played is irrelevant. Since Morse's MOTM is an average tallied across (I think it is) 6 fan sites I would say it is a fairly accurate representation of who is playing well at each stage of the season.

It does give an interesting take on SG's (and everyone else's) form.

 

[peterhague]

so was xabi.

He was never knackered physically though. And he was never the anchor, either.

 

[keniget]

Not gonna happen and it's not even comparable to Carraghers situation.
We're talking about one of the best player in LFC history here, I don't think Brendan has the guts to put him on the bench.
Last time a manager touched Gerrard everyone went bonkers.
Also, I don't know why I'm the one who has to spell it out for you but no one in the team can do Lucas job in midfield.
I'm sorry but Lucas is closer to being a solution than a problem.

I might be wrong, but I don't believe you rate Lucas as highly as you're making out these days. Trolling?

 

[dee]

I don't think he's good enough to get in the side anywhere any more, unfortunately. Can't seem to adapt to the deep role, and isn't as good as Coutinho, Sterling, Markovic, or Lallana if played as an AM.

That simply isn't true. He's still a massive threat as a '10' or down the right

 

[Frogfish]

That simply isn't true. He's still a massive threat as a '10' or down the right

I thought about that position too (RM) but when you consider that RM has to cover the RB up and down the pitch then again the issue of stamina and legs comes up. #10 is definitely the only other slot left for him.

 

[keniget]

I thought about that position too (RM) but when you consider that RM has to cover the RB up and down the pitch then again the issue of stamina and legs comes up. #10 is definitely the only other slot left for him.

He never played as a RM anyways... in the same way Zidane never really played LW for Real Madrid. It was a free role.

 

[Modo]

He was never knackered physically though. And he was never the anchor, either.

OK, so when he supposedly played with Gerrard in the middle, during his first season, who was furthest back?

 

[ILD]

I'm at work...

Disregarding the part about Carra, Gerrard has been dropped before, remember Salif Diao?
But the most memorable moment is still the Everton game when Lucas came on and won us the game.
Still, I don't think Brendan has the balls to bench Gerrard. An injury would give Brendan a suitable excuse.
What more were you asking?
Anyway my original point is that Lucas is the only true Dm in the squad, so he wins by default.
Regarding Gerrard, he can play at Rb right? I'd leave Allen out.

I knew you'd use the Everton game as the example. Gerrard was subbed early as Rafa felt we needed to control the game a bit more and felt Gerrard was acting a bit impulsive. The substitution at the time was considered risky and usual by us the fans. Normally you wouldn't withdraw your talisman and one of our main attacking threats in the derby. It paid off for Rafa as Lucas won a pen and Kuyt scored. I don't think Rafa withdrew Gerrard under a similar circumstance again.

I don't remember Gerrard being 'dropped' for Salif Diao. As in dropped for a concession of games for Salif Diao? Not rested or anything, dropped? Honestly can't remember that.

I agree we need a DM. I've always been a fan of Lucas in the team but we currently need a better DM than him. He hasn't looked the same in the last 18 months and Rogers is perhaps losing a bit of faith in him.

 

[peterhague]

OK, so when he supposedly played with Gerrard in the middle, during his first season, who was furthest back?

Are you seriously going to pursue this argument?

LOL why am I even asking?

 

[Dirkus_Circus]

I'm not sure Can is ready to start, whether he is still carrying a knock or still getting used to things with Liverpool he hasn't looked full speed the last couple of times he has played.

I would rather he got his first start against someone of lesser quality than Spurs.

 

[Modo]

I don't remember Gerrard being 'dropped' for Salif Diao. As in dropped for a concession of games for Salif Diao? Not rested or anything, dropped? Honestly can't remember that.

He was dropped for Diao. Gerrard had trouble with gangsters or something and wasn't playing well.

 

[leftpeg]

I don't remember Gerrard being 'dropped' for Salif Diao. As in dropped for a concession of games for Salif Diao? Not rested or anything, dropped? Honestly can't remember that.
.

Modo is going to use the one example he can...which was a game against Sunderland in 2002. It's a bit pointless but there you go.

Perhaps when he does reply, Modo will tell us if he thinks Gerrard and Lucas should both play together. He's ducked that question twice already.

 

[leftpeg]

He was dropped for Diao. Gerrard had trouble with gangsters or something and wasn't playing well.

And the gangster issue cleared up after one game did it? That's the trouble with gangsters these days, they are such short-termists.

 

[Modo]

Are you seriously going to pursue this argument?

LOL why am I even asking?

You brought it up didn't you?

 

[Modo]

And the gangster issue cleared up after one game did it? That's the trouble with gangsters these days, they are such short-termists.

was it really one game.

Also to clear up the 2nd question, I did write Allen didn't I?
Didn't Lucas start the first game?

 

[leftpeg]

Actually Peggy it doesn't.

Since these are points assigned to players based on their individual performances there are exactly the same points available for each match so how the team played is irrelevant. Since Morse's MOTM is an average tallied across (I think it is) 6 fan sites I would say it is a fairly accurate representation of who is playing well at each stage of the season.

It does give an interesting take on SG's (and everyone else's) form.

We all want to rate Gerrard highly so when we're playing well and winning I suspect his numbers get a bit of a bounce. Fair enough. However when people like Modo are contributing to these numbers I cannot accept them as an exact science.

 

[Modo]

I might be wrong, but I don't believe you rate Lucas as highly as you're making out these days. Trolling?

I'm not saying that Lucas is the best DM in the world, I'm just that he's the best we've got.

 

[peterhague]

That simply isn't true. He's still a massive threat as a '10' or down the right

He could be that (although I don't believe it) and still be behind those other 4. But IMO Gerrard's main attributes in that position were his pace and power to get him into the box quickly and his shooting ability. All 3 much diminished these days. So he'd be basically left trying to contribute via his dribbling and movement or his short creative passing, all of which I think he's not especially brilliant at and would be done better by other members of the squad.

 

[Modo]

And the gangster issue cleared up after one game did it? That's the trouble with gangsters these days, they are such short-termists.

Was he dropped or wasn't he?

 

[leftpeg]

Was he dropped or wasn't he?

Diao replaced him for one game. Maybe he was carrying a knock, maybe it was due to form, maybe he was hiding from gangsters...I just think it's a pretty desperate effort to make your point.

Now then...straight answer, would you play Gerrard and Lucas in the same team?

 

[peterhague]

You brought it up didn't you?

Only as an adjunct to the main point - itself a diversion since I never cited Alonso as a prime example of a DM! - that Alonso was indeed in better physical shape than Lucas is now.

Continuing to plough this furrow would be beyond irrelevant. But it's you so no doubt you'll try.

 

[Mors]

I've no problem with Gerrard being in the team every week, but NOT in the DM spot, he's shit at it. Everyone says' but pirlo' blah blah blah, but he's not pirlo and we play a different system. There's normally 2 or 3 other midfield spots every week, he can have one of those. But we still need a proper DM in the team also.
Regards to the point about Rodgers having the nuts to drop him? No he doesn't. Gerrard will call the shots on it.

 

[leftpeg]

Woah...I'd missed the little nugget earlier in the thread where Modo advocated playing Lucas at DM and Gerrard at RB!

 

[nealmac]

People are saying he needs resting every couple of games etc......he's only played 2 games!

Personally, I thought he played well against City, but that's just me.

 

[Modo]

Woah...I'd missed the little nugget earlier in the thread where Modo advocated playing Lucas at DM and Gerrard at RB!

That was a joke, but considering that you all keep complaining about Johnson, maybe it is a good idea?

 

[leftpeg]

That was a joke, but considering that you all keep complaining about Johnson, maybe it is a good idea?

You're a funny guy.

 

[ILD]

Was he dropped or wasn't he?

I don't think that really counts Modo. Alonso was left on the bench for Diao before. I remember Alonso coming on and changing the game. It was a game under the floodlights I think. A manager might try something out and use different players to try out a system but I think it's a little far fetched to claim Gerrard was dropped for Salif Diao for footballing reasons for a period of time.

 

[keniget]

I'm not saying that Lucas is the best DM in the world, I'm just that he's the best we've got.

How do you rate him against his peers? Say guys like Busquets, Song, Fernando and the like?

Also, in percentage terms, how much better off do you think we'd be if we replaced one of our midfielders - Gerrard for the sake of argument - with Lucas?

There is a point to my line of questioning.