When being big and fucking hard just isn't enough
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I'm not gonna be arsed with going through ever DM midfielder in every top team in the world but I'd say that Lucas is a decent and stable midfielder who imo does his job well.
In percentage terms? You mean like we'd concede 15% less goals?
Yeah I think we'd concede less goals with Lucas on the pitch.
I think it's pretty reasonable to put you on the spot given the tone you've adopted when advocating Lucas.
As said, I do get the impression you're trolling a little with the Lucas thing but in fairness, rather than being nasty about it, I'm giving you the platform right now to present more of a reasoned argument for his inclusion.
I'm asking you to put a number on it - or failing that, expand a bit more beyond "he's a DM and we need a DM" - because substituting one supposedly failing player with one set of skills with another supposedly failing player with another set of skills isn't necessarily going to lead to real improvement.
Rafa used to drive me mad buying substandard players just to fill a gap. If you don't have the solution in-house or you can't go out and buy one, change the system to compensate. Adapt.
The problem I have with Gerrard starting regularly is simply this.
If Gerrard starts, there is only two place available for Coutinho, Lallana, Sterling, Balotelli, and Markovic. Because Sturridge is nailed on as a striker. Playing Gerrard means we need two out of Allen, Henderson and Can to play to support Gerrard with the work rate in midfield.
If we drop Gerrard we can easily pull Coutinho back to the midfield. Which will mean that we lose none of Gerrards ability on the ball and we can still field some deadly players upfront to attack at pace.
Last season we were bold enough to play Coutinho, Gerrard and Hendo in the middle and it worked! However my concern is that the effectiveness of that will rapidly decline and probably already has....which is why Rodgers probably doesnt want to do it anymore.
If Gerrard starts, there is only two place available for Coutinho, Lallana, Sterling, Balotelli, and Markovic. Because Sturridge is nailed on as a striker. Playing Gerrard means we need two out of Allen, Henderson and Can to play to support Gerrard with the work rate in midfield.
If we drop Gerrard we can easily pull Coutinho back to the midfield. Which will mean that we lose none of Gerrards ability on the ball and we can still field some deadly players upfront to attack at pace.
Last season we were bold enough to play Coutinho, Gerrard and Hendo in the middle and it worked! However my concern is that the effectiveness of that will rapidly decline and probably already has....which is why Rodgers probably doesnt want to do it anymore.
This is my main concern too. I think having Gerrard in the team seems to mean us having one too few attacking players in the side. If we're to play a MF 3 I want it to be Can/Allen, Henderson, and Lallana/Coutinho.
I think we'd be a much better attack for that change, with minimal impact on the defence.
Totally agree.
He still plays at a high level and i can still see him contributing from ocassionally starting and being a regular contributor as a sub....
Starting him regarly castrates the team a bit, but starting Lucas in place of Gerrard is madness.
He still plays at a high level and i can still see him contributing from ocassionally starting and being a regular contributor as a sub....
Starting him regarly castrates the team a bit, but starting Lucas in place of Gerrard is madness.
unless something changes spurs are going to beat us
Like bollocks they will. Ridiculous comment.
Unless we really improve on our performances so far, I think they'll have every opportunity to make it a tight affair.
Hopefully Balotelli is the spark we need to get some fluidity and space when attacking. Otherwise it'll be tough to come by goals. And we're always prone to leaking a few...
We need a DM 1 now.
Do you remember the discussions we had on the board after Henderson's 3 game suspension where a certain Lucas played all 3 games with Gerrard ... The stats don't lie - they don't play well together.
Lucas has definitely lose something - he's not the same player he was, and I don't know if that's physical or mental. To use two phenomenal games we had - when we had far more with Gerrard (although I don't think his place should be guaranteed etc) - is stupid. The only thing that stands out from the team you sent is the fucking gaping hole left by Suarez - that's what made our team click last year. Let's hope some new clicker is found and quick.
Erm.... did I say our midfield didn't work well in his absence? Did I insinuate we cannot function without Gerrard on the pitch? Why have you jumped the gun to that conclusion? You reply has nothing to do with what I posted really.
To get back on subject, I have no problems with Gerrard being rotated at all for the good of the team. However, I think it's pointless to play Lucas INSTEAD of him as Lucas looks to be leaving this transfer window.
Hey, if you have time to jump to conclusions with my posts then you've time to go back and reply to Keni's post above that is yet unanswered?
I don't think it's a case of Lucas AND Gerrard. It's more of a case of Lucas or Gerrard.
For me it's an either/or scenario between Gerrard and lucas. However, on current form, neither deserve to start. It's a nuisance.
With runs from lamela, Chadli, eriksen, etc, our DM needs to be mobile this weekend. For that, I'd be tempted by lucas.
Soon as we play against a shite team, I'd like to trial Can and hendo behind Lallana.
With runs from lamela, Chadli, eriksen, etc, our DM needs to be mobile this weekend. For that, I'd be tempted by lucas.
Soon as we play against a shite team, I'd like to trial Can and hendo behind Lallana.
It would have been better if instead of being the absolute number of points accumulated over the season it was done on a points-per-game basis
Fuck me, we are two games in people . TWO GAMES. Yeh sure, there are issues with his performance at the moment, but bear in mind the summer he has had with regards to bit the league and WC and it's understandable that it may take him a little longer than some to overcome things mentally and physically.
Maybe that creates an argument for resting him, but equally, playing games will get his fitness up and hopefully get his head sorted. I'm a huge Stevie fan, but if he's still playing badly a little further into the season, I'll join in the debate about dropping him.
Two games. Talk about knee jerk.
Maybe that creates an argument for resting him, but equally, playing games will get his fitness up and hopefully get his head sorted. I'm a huge Stevie fan, but if he's still playing badly a little further into the season, I'll join in the debate about dropping him.
Two games. Talk about knee jerk.
At the end of Carra's time his lack of pace meant we defended well but waaaaay too deep. This is a similar elephant in the room. SG is undoubtedly one of our greatest ever players, but he is not suited to that role without a Mascherano type beside him. Without that world class screening defender we'd be better off making Henderson sit there breaking shit up and getting stuck in. He gives away a lot less stupid fouls than Lucas and if developing a footballing brain that means he would know when to break forward and when to sit.
Anyway who knows what might happen between now and the end of this window. We might have sacked Lucas off and got Song in.
Anyway who knows what might happen between now and the end of this window. We might have sacked Lucas off and got Song in.
Sorry peg, but for me it is. It's well thought out and considered, but it just feels rash to me. Two games is way too short a period to judge such a player. I've seen utter dross given longer on these very boards, dross that's done nothing to deserve a little leeway, and yet Stevie gets a couple of games? Doesn't feel right to me. Judge him once he's had so few more games under his belt, I say.
It isnt based on 2 fucking games.
We've seen him play DM at various times throughout his long and storied career. He couldn't do it when he was a much, much, better player than he is now. He looks good there from time to time, and does good there in highlights, because he will have glints of genius with a football until the day he dies. In terms of him being a fit there though, in some general sense, or really growing into the position, I've never seen it. It's a mix of the cavalier way we played, the fact that defensively you could always share the blame with four or five other players, good old fashioned ethnocentrism, good pk taking, and his incredibly well deserved reputation that lead to him getting plaudits for his performances. He was unconvincing there for me, all of last season. I wanted us to look to a future THIS season where he isn't automatically included, because our midfield just doesn't seem that balanced, especially off the ball.
Nailed it.
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