When being big and fucking hard just isn't enough

[leftpeg]

It isnt based on 2 fucking games.

We've seen him play DM at various times throughout his long and storied career. He couldn't do it when he was a much, much, better player than he is now. He looks good there from time to time, and does good there in highlights, because he will have glints of genius with a football until the day he dies. In terms of him being a fit there though, in some general sense, or really growing into the position, I've never seen it. It's a mix of the cavalier way we played, the fact that defensively you could always share the blame with four or five other players, good old fashioned ethnocentrism, good pk taking, and his incredibly well deserved reputation that lead to him getting plaudits for his performances. He was unconvincing there for me, all of last season. I wanted us to look to a future THIS season where he isn't automatically included, because our midfield just doesn't seem that balanced, especially off the ball.

Spot on.

 

[gkmacca]

When I was saying that last season I was shouted down. We were winning but he wasn't playing well in that role. As I said, I admire him a lot but I only judge the performance.

 

[leftpeg]

I'd have agreed with you if I'd been here Macca!

 

[kingjulian]

The alternative last season was Lucas. It would have been hard to argue that we couldnt improve in his position had the transfer window been open through out the season.

There was hardly any point talking about it last season, given that Lucas was the option and we were even more baren upfront if we discounted the regular starters. Now i think we already have better options in the squad and its time to try them out....

 

[rurikbird]

You guys are all overreacting. Gerrard is fine. And Coutinho is fine. We'll be fine.

 

[mom]

It isnt based on 2 fucking games.

We've seen him play DM at various times throughout his long and storied career. He couldn't do it when he was a much, much, better player than he is now. He looks good there from time to time, and does good there in highlights, because he will have glints of genius with a football until the day he dies. In terms of him being a fit there though, in some general sense, or really growing into the position, I've never seen it. It's a mix of the cavalier way we played, the fact that defensively you could always share the blame with four or five other players, good old fashioned ethnocentrism, good pk taking, and his incredibly well deserved reputation that lead to him getting plaudits for his performances. He was unconvincing there for me, all of last season. I wanted us to look to a future THIS season where he isn't automatically included, because our midfield just doesn't seem that balanced, especially off the ball.

Of course it's based on 2 games. Players take time to settle into new roles. The team changed a lot last year in the way we played. Crazy cavalier attacking play and shit at the back last season and the defensive unit as a whole struggled. Can't blame just Gerrard for that. It's amazing how Mings fans blame the defence around him when he is shit, but when Gerrard is asked to play DM in front of a shit defence, its all down to him. He can hardly do what he needs to do well when he's constantly covering for the muppets behind him.

So are we gonna try him there this season or not? If you are then you have to take into account the shitty end of season and WC he has had. It would be crazy not to. That and the fact that he may finally have a half decent defence around him so he can do other things than just correct for their errors etc. paint it whichever way you like, but this is a new squad with a very new defence and he needs to be judged as part of that unit if his role is DM. Give him more than two games. I think you'll find that Brodge does.

Will he continue to underperform there? We shall see. I'll have a look at things again in a few more games and judge him then. Been here done this before so many times with Gerrard. He's judged by his previously incredibly lofty standards and as such, when he dips folks scream for his head. And yet, he's still there, first name on the sheet every week. Funny, that. In a season where we have spent big, we could have replaced him with a top quality DM. But didn't. I'll keep the same faith that BR has in him for now. Hopefully, he'll prove me right.

 

[leftpeg]

Of course it's based on 2 games.

Did you watch any of last season? If you did, you cannot seriously think this is a knee-jerk reaction to two games. For what it's worth, I actually think Gerrard had one of his better games in this role on Monday night.

You'll be right about Rodgers sticking within him for now though...not that that makes it right to do so.

And as for all of this stuff about Gerrard's shitty WC experience...fuck that, fuck England, this is Liverpool, his day job and the club shouldn't be compensating for what happens at international level.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I'd have agreed with you if I'd been here Macca!

I didn't agree, nor did I disagree.

I expressed my disillusionment in his performance there in most games (occasionally he shone, but usually when the opposition were technically niave, Everton at Anfield for example) but I held off decrying him there, partly cos it was working, & partly cos I was hoping against hope he'd come good.

He's not the answer in that position. We need what he can offer in terms of defence splitting passes, free kicks & penalties (& occasionally corners), but that doesn't outweigh the potential pluses even a player like song would provide playing as a dm.

I don't know what the answer is, but I know Stevie at dm isn't it.

 

[mom]

Mate, it's got nothing to do with us having to compensate for the WC etc. it takes it's toll, obviously. So if it's having an effect, would you ditch an otherwise decent player? Of course not. Unless it's ruining his performances, in which case you rest him. But people are different, and maybe what he needs is to play to get it out of his system.
Yep I saw last season, but I've answered that above.
It's the same reason I'm not judging Ming until now. He was shit last season, but so was the defence. So let's see.

New defence this year, and a shit one last year. Which obviously affects his role, so for me , yeh this is based on two games. And for what it's worth , I don't think he was as bad as folk are making him out to be last season. He wasn't Masch class , but hardly a Lucas . Give him time to settle into the role and new defence.
When Lucas started he was given lord knows how much grace as he had to adapt to a new role as opposed to playing a more attacking role that he was used to. Yet Gerrard doesn't get the same? Don't get it.

 

[Fabio]

When I was saying that last season I was shouted down. We were winning but he wasn't playing well in that role. As I said, I admire him a lot but I only judge the performance.

Think I agreed with you too. I was often shouted down early in the season for saying it wasn't working

 

[leftpeg]

Give him time!?! He's had more than a season!

And how did the WC take it's toll? He played three games. And he's captain of LFC for fuck's sake...he doesn't play for us to get the fucking WC out of his system.

 

[mom]

It's not so much the games mate, it's more the mental side of things. Which affects folk mentally, obviously, but it also takes it's toll physically. It's not going to ruin him as a player, but that, losing the league and retiring from England won't have a great affect on his morale. Doesn't matter who he's captain of, the bottom line is that he played, they stunk, and that's it . We have to deal with the fall out. Just as if he were injured on duty. Tough shit. It happens. We moan but we get on with it and have to deal with the fallout.
Last season was different. It's like putting Sturridge in WBA asking him why he hadn't scored as many goals as lady season. The team around him is different. Same shit here. Better defence should make it easy.
If Masch was there last season he would have struggled to some degree . Not as much as SG, but you get my point.
These things have to be factored in.
He now has the opportunity to show what he can do in this role without having others to blame around him. Let's judge him on that, fairly. Which is why it's knee jerk for me. As was some of Mings criticism last year.

Look at De Gea in his first season....

 

[leftpeg]

Fundamentally disagree but hey, let's leave it there chief.

 

[Farkmaster]

When I was saying that last season I was shouted down. We were winning but he wasn't playing well in that role. As I said, I admire him a lot but I only judge the performance.

"Gerrard hasn't evolved into anything, he's deteriorated both personally, and in the clarity of his role in the team, ever since "the best midfield in the world" was dismantled. He's certainly not a Xabi like controller of the game. He finds Xabi's passing range at time, but he doesn't have his understanding of how to manage a game, when to settle things, when we just need to hold the ball for a while. Gerrard can do things Xabi can't, and I'd like to see him doing more of those things. Gerrard yet again does a bit of everything, as he has so many times when our midfield is mediocre. He'll go wherever he's needed. He's just not as good at it anymore"

"Yea, see we agree on a lot of things, including having patience for Rodgers to achieve his vision. What we aren't going to agree on is any even medium term model for our midfield that includes Gerrard playing as a deep lying midfielder. The fact that Gerrard is playing that role is symptomatic of our midfield troubles for me, and while pragmatism may suggest it's the right choice now, it's not something to build around. Our slightly better, but still mediocre results with an easy run of games may also somewhat coincide with Gerrard finding better form, but that doesn't mean he's somehow evolving into that role. He's not that player, he just plays one on TV. An on form Gerrard can have great performances in several positions in midfield, but he's had his share of bad performances there as well.

Further, I have to say that while I'm quite patient and and believe to some extent in the playstyle we are building toward, I don't see Gerrard being at the center of dictating it. I just don't think that's his identity as a player. The least convincing thing about Rodgers for me thus so far has been the defense, and his inability to find a proper midfield balance against more competitive sides."

"While I do think its silly to think about dropping him, I wish we were in a position where it wasn't so silly. We should have a midfield that looks to a future where he's not around. He's a shadow of his former self, and while his direct play is great at times, it also concedes possession a lot, and he needs to choose his spots more. We should be trying to get him some rest."

" I remember posting years and years ago about how I wondered whether Gerrard would ever really end up specializing as a midfielder, and I feel like he just hasn't. When I think of Gerrard being most Gerrard, its in a mix of different roles, and if I had to pick one, it would be earlier on in his career when he was doing fucking everything in a way that doesn't really make sense long term."

You haven't been alone, I've been a pretty boring broken record on this for some time it seems. It's also a pretty chronic kneejerk, its as though my knee has been spasming ever since Gerrard started playing in the position.

 

[Frogfish]

The biggest issue in all of this isn't whether Stevie is worth his place at DM or whether he is improving or can improve. It's that BR doesn't know what else to do with him and doesn't want to take the hard choice and drop him to the bench. He's the team's captain, the club's captain and maybe even our greatest ever player, an absolute legend and an icon. I wouldn't want to be Rodgers right now.

 

[mom]

Fundamentally disagree but hey, let's leave it there chief.

Cool, mate. I'm maybe a little guilty of viewing things through my SG tinted glasses, but I hope not.

 

[mom]

You haven't been alone, I've been a pretty boring broken record on this for some time it seems. It's also a pretty chronic kneejerk, its as though my knee has been spasming ever since Gerrard started playing in the position.

Ever since? Ever since? as in from his first game in that position? So you guys moaned about him after his first game in that position!? SEE??? ITS KNEE JERK I TELL YA. KNEE JERK!!!

KNEE JERKING GERRARD HATING SODS THE LOT OF YOU!!!!

I need a lie down. X

 

[Frogfish]

Interesting Comparison (yeah yeah I know, only 2 games so far) :

The only interesting stat in Attack is Gerrard has created 3 Chances to Matic's 1.

 

[Whirly]

Cool, mate. I'm maybe a little guilty of viewing things through my SG tinted glasses, but I hope not.

I think you have less footballing sense than my actual mother, who has never even watched the sport.

 

[mom]

Zzzzzzzz

 

[leftpeg]

There you go...Gerrard talking to Carragher on Sky...he's just confirmed Rodgers told him if he carried on with England he would sit out some Liverpool games.

 

[leftpeg]

Gerrard's first 45 minutes v Spurs has been a 3 out of 10 performance at best. This can't go on.

 

[Fabio]

Gerrard's first 45 minutes v Spurs has been a 3 out of 10 performance at best. This can't go on.

Typical knee jerking peggy

 

[gkmacca]

I actually do think maybe his sight is a bit dodgy these days. He's consistently inaccurate - it's not random, he's usually amiss by the same degree.

 

[Oncy]

Lets start a Gerrard for England campaign.

 

[Oncy]

I actually do think maybe his sight is a bit dodgy these days. He's consistently inaccurate - it's not random, he's usually amiss by the same degree.

It must be like when his teeth affected his back. Now his fucking eyes have sffected his legs.

 

[mom]

Don't make me go all Voldemort on you.