Gerrard

[RedStar]

Don't fret. Most of you in here will be lavishing praises after praises about what a great loss it will for the club and what a great player, blah blah blah....the day Stevie calls it quits.

Recognising his contribution to the club is not the same as keeping him in his team beyond his usefulness. Hes becoming very erratic and needs to be rested more, nobody is suggesting John Henry take him round the back with a shotgun and put him out of his misery. We need to get past this hysterical idea that Gerrard is beyond criticism because an objective look at his performances this season would tell you he has been poor in a number of big games

 

[keniget]

It's a similar situation-ish to the Johnson debate. The only players to replace him are Alberto and Allen - I'm happy to give players a go but hard to drop your captain for a maybe player.

 

[RedStar]

It's a similar situation-ish to the Johnson debate. The only players to replace him are Alberto and Allen - I'm happy to give players a go but hard to drop your captain for a maybe player.

We need to start looking at replacing him long term, that will require a better player than Allen or Alberto

 

[keniget]

I agree. We need two new midfielders.

 

[Hansern]

Despite some of the critisicm. A couple of weeks ago he was the player in the Premiership with the most key passes.
He looks his age at times, which is natural but we dont have a player like him in the squad that we can rotate. I was hoping Allen would step up but that looks a bit uncertain to say the least.

Two games a week is one to much for him but lets not forget he shoud have been rested midweek and only played because of injections. I'd be interested to see him play with a more commanding player next to him like M'Vila/Fernando before giving up all togheter.

Ideally we bring in a young player aswell that we see as his successor, and rotate the two of them next year.

 

[gkmacca]

If only he'd be deployed for a game or two on the right. His delivery into the box can still be unplayable, and he'd have to prove in that position he's still as fit as he keeps claiming he is. As our central stroller he's exasperating.

 

[mark1975]

I have a question for Mark. You always say Gerrard should play further forward. Today he started in the most attacking position in a long time, pretty much playing behind the striker. Did his performance change your mind?

One isolated game has made your mind up? It was a derby, we were under pressure for much of the game and as the game wore on, Suarez wasn't proving much of an outlet on the break and was unable to make his usual runs off the ball - he was fine when we got players in around him, but asking him to make runs off the shoulder of defenders, he was clearly struggling to find that extra yard.

The midfield was being either out fought or bypassed alot of the time, we certainly weren't supporting players enough in attack for us to get a hold in the middle and progress the play, Coutinho was out of the game for much of the time and Henderson was defending more than attacking, so Suarez and Gerrard were both relatively isolated when high up the pitch, and that wasn't too often because much of the time, Gerrard was dropping into deep midfield anyway to assist Allen and Lucas who were struggling to prove to be any sort of positive outlet, other than maintaining possession with short passes between themselves, Gerrard and the fullbacks/wide men. It was all pretty compressed and much of our play in getting Gerrard on the ball was just short of halfway. You could actually see him looking up for runs and being forced to either play it short or attempt an ambitious Hollywood ball (which rarely came off).

I think the "point" was that he's not disciplined enough to play the deep role, so if he's going to continue to be shoehorned into the side, it would be more beneficial to push him higher up the pitch and have some players sitting in behind him - unfortunately I don't think Lucas and Allen are the sum of what we need in this set up (or any, for that matter). We need to buy.

Yes, Gerrard is past his best, so we may well find ourselves sold short wherever we play him these days, but he's redundant in the deep role because he doesn't provide enough intelligence off the ball when we're on the defensive and it pretty much blunts whatever attacking impact he has left in him. People seem to think he can do a Scholes/Alonso and drop in there, making the most of his passing range, those two players had the intelligence to make a yard for themselves in that position and to dictate the play. Gerrard can't.

 

[Rosco]

If only he'd be deployed for a game or two on the right. His delivery into the box can still be unplayable, and he'd have to prove in that position he's still as fit as he keeps claiming he is. As our central stroller he's exasperating.

I don't think you could play him there with Johnson behind him, but I see no reason why he couldn't play there in a Beckham-esque manner. He's not going to take any one on down the outside but he'll use the ball well and find space to get balls in the box.

But I don't think I can see him doing that for 90 mins.

 

[RedStar]

If only he'd be deployed for a game or two on the right. His delivery into the box can still be unplayable, and he'd have to prove in that position he's still as fit as he keeps claiming he is. As our central stroller he's exasperating.

Our right hand side would have been destroyed by Baines and Piennar if he was deployed out there, he doesnt have the legs to offer an attacking threat and provide cover for the fullback anymore

 

[gkmacca]

I didn't mean in that match. But he doesn't appear to have the legs to provide cover for anywhere, and he doesn't appear to be doing anything consistently effective in his supposed 'best' central position, where he just stands or strolls whilst his colleagues desperately run around trying to provide cover for him, so my concern is to find somewhere for him to use his skills because he sure as hell isn't going to be dropped.

 

[Spionkop69]

We need to start looking at replacing him long term, that will require a better player than Allen or Alberto

We do indeed. But to drop him for one of the "maybe he might be half as good" is short sighted imo. We are in the here and now and whether the pundits, or indeed anyone of us believe it, we are challenging for the title - or the very least a much needed CL spot.

Whilst Gerrard's performances and consistency are a frustration, we just dont have the capability to replace him within the current squad. Blooding a maybe player and missing out on the CL could mean we miss out on the more complete replacement in an imminent transfer window.

Conundrum aint it?

 

[mark1975]

Lets face it, his dead ball delivery is proving invaluable at the minute.

 

[Athens]

I didn't mean in that match. But he doesn't appear to have the legs to provide cover for anywhere, and he doesn't appear to be doing anything consistently effective in his supposed 'best' central position, where he just stands or strolls whilst his colleagues desperately run around trying to provide cover for him, so my concern is to find somewhere for him to use his skills because he sure as hell isn't going to be dropped.

What role did Gary McAllister play in the team? Could he not do something similar?

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Gerrard is still the midfielder who is most likely to win us a game, until that changes, we shouldn't drop him.

 

[rubans]

Jeez, I know he may not be at his best and maybe with age he won't be ever. He will be 34 soon FFS. We have to accept that.
So many threads about Gerrard in the last year.
If anyone ever gets free pass in my eyes, it's this guy.
Best player I have ever seen play for us and he can play how he likes in my eyes and will still look away.
Even when not at his best, still seems to do something in the game.
We have bigger fishes to fry before acknowledging an issue that may never be fixed.
We might rest him but it probably won't make a diff, let's just accept it and enjoy every min he strolls around the pitch while he's still playing. Only true legend amongst so many false undeserved ones in modern footy.

 

[Spionkop69]

Jeez, I know he may not be at his best and maybe with age he won't be ever. He will be 34 soon FFS. We have to accept that.
So many threads about Gerrard in the last year.
If anyone ever gets free pass in my eyes, it's this guy.
Best player I have ever seen play for us and he can play how he likes in my eyes and will still look away.
Even when not at his best, still seems to do something in the game.
We have bigger fishes to fry before acknowledging an issue that may never be fixed.
We might rest him but it probably won't make a diff, let's just accept it and enjoy every min he strolls around the pitch while he's still playing. Only true legend amongst so many false undeserved ones in modern footy.

Some very valid points in there.

I'm not sure Paisley would have done the same thing. We shouldn't have "just accept it and enjoy every min he strolls around the pitch while he's still playing". He has to play his part or he's trading on his past.

He does offer us something at the moment, but too often of late, he seems to not have the legs. If we really do want the very best of him, we've got to come up with another solution otherwise, playing him all the time because "there's none better" could stop up getting the replacement we need because don't get the CL.

I'm not saying that playing Gerrard will stop us getting to the CL, at the moment as Mark says, his set piece delivery is outstanding but we're deploying him wrong imo. If he's the holding MF then we don't need Lucas. If Lucas is the holding MF, play Henderson who has the legs with him and give Gerrard a freeier role.

He can't consistently get box to box and when he's meant to holding and gets caught out then that exposes us.

 

[FoxForceFive]

What role did Gary McAllister play in the team? Could he not do something similar?

The energy the rest of the team, & most importantly, Gerrard, provided made him perfect.

I can see the comparison, cos he provided similar dead ball abilities, however I remember (& this may be wrong) him being rested & not playing 90 minutes all that often, which s what stevie needs.

 

[Ryan]

Gerrard is still the midfielder who is most likely to win us a game, until that changes, we shouldn't drop him.

He's also the midfielder most likely to lose us a game too.

 

[Rosco]

He's also the midfielder most likely to lose us a game too.

I think there's plenty of competition for that accolade

 

[Ryan]

I think there's plenty of competition for that accolade

I don't.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

If I had any confidence in Allen or Henderson ever winning us a match, I may think that was more important, but Gerrard is still so far ahead of them in that regard, it's not funny.

Until Allen or Henderson step up, or we get someone else better, then Gerrard should start every match that he's fit for.

 

[Ryan]

If I had any confidence in Allen or Henderson ever winning us a match, I may think that was more important, but Gerrard is still so far ahead of them in that regard, it's not funny.

Until Allen or Henderson step up, or we get someone else better, then Gerrard should start every match that he's fit for.

Oh I agree, I was just suggesting that it's a bit one-eyed to be only focused on his contributions to attack. His positional sense, and discipline whilst defending are fucking dreadful for a centre midfielder.

 

[gkmacca]

If anyone ever gets free pass in my eyes, it's this guy.

I can understand that but I also think it's part of the problem. No one should get a free pass. Paisley and Fagan used to sub and rest Kenny. Kenny rested himself too much when he was manager! No one's bigger than the team. I actually think Gerrard could still be superb in this team on a regular basis, because his vision, technique and intelligence are unaffected by age, but he really must slot into a role rather than roam around doing a bit of everything.

 

[rubans]

I can understand that but I also think it's part of the problem. No one should get a free pass. Paisley and Fagan used to sub and rest Kenny. Kenny rested himself too much when he was manager! No one's bigger than the team. I actually think Gerrard could still be superb in this team on a regular basis, because his vision, technique and intelligence are unaffected by age, but he really must slot into a role rather than roam around doing a bit of everything.

I don't disagree but we just have a few other things to fix in the team so I just always look at them, or maybe I choose to ignore the Gerrard issue but I just feel he's a bit like something I know we may never be able to fix so just scarred if we touch might just break completely. I just wouldn't want him finishing his career by sitting on the bench even if some how we find someone better in that role, I know that's crazy 🙂

 

[mark1975]

I can understand that but I also think it's part of the problem. No one should get a free pass. Paisley and Fagan used to sub and rest Kenny. Kenny rested himself too much when he was manager! No one's bigger than the team. I actually think Gerrard could still be superb in this team on a regular basis, because his vision, technique and intelligence are unaffected by age, but he really must slot into a role rather than roam around doing a bit of everything.

Agreed, I think he's starting to become a victim though of never really being confined to a role, it's becoming difficult to accommodate him in a set position, because it's in his nature to wander and look for the ball.

Like we've said though, it goes almost without saying that he should be in a more advanced, less defensively demanding position.