Man United thoughts

[Molbystwin]

Lucas and Allen haven't played well together at all, there's no real initiative grabbing from either of them, they're both plodders and despite the idea that it gives us a more solid base to work with, we seem to concede more with those two in the engine room.

Henderson has come on leaps and bounds, he gives us energy in midfield and Gerrard consequently becomes more effective by trusting him and allowing himself to probe around the final third more.

Whatever way we shape up the midfield, I think there's a strong case for having Gerrard and Henderson as the basis of it, the third one can be dependent on the opposition, but if Allen and Lucas don't start pulling their fingers out soon, one or both will rightfully find themselves as spectators, only from the bench instead.

In hindsight it is fair to say that Rodgers got it wrong tactically yesterday until he changed it. Allen was atrocious to start with and the entire team seemed absent as United were not threatened. What annoyed me most was the apparent "lack of fight" but that's too easy. I doubt that the team didn't have the necessary desire or fight in any way rather it was the fact that we were set up badly and ended up doing the wrong things and in the wrong areas of the pitch. Playing calmly from the back is all well and good, its good logic that the opposition cannot score when the don't have the ball but when your opposition is harrying you instantly and pushed right up onto your players to such an extent it was a perfect storm, a high pressure game in which every mistake was magnified and United made damn fucking sure we were making mistakes by pressing us like crazy.

Trying to build slowly from the back meant that so many of our passes were in fact backwards or sideways in our own third of the pitch and with United there were lots of stupid dangerous passages of play with Reina and the defenders knocking it around between themselves. United didnt even need to be very clever and build play themselves they just waited for us to give it to them in our own half and had enough pace and good movement to panic the fuck out of us. NONE of our players settled in the first half we gave them no trouble going forwards and a bunch of invites to attack at the abck and in midfield, we were totally outplayed and in truth they didnt even break sweat did they.

IMO we had set up far too cagey and they simply broke into the cage and got in our faces from the off. We lack real quality in numerous positions on the pitch, we don't have players who have the ability to break effectively on their own or do the unexpected at pace and give United something to worry about.

Inexperience, lack of leadership, and lack of belief due to the knowledge of facing superior opposition, we really really needed to get it right tactically and we fucked it..... I have no clue why Reina and Skrtel need to play piggy Welbeck in the middle away at Old trafford..... we literally invited them to twat us at times. I lost count of the number of suicidal passes we played in our own half with no hope of progress anyway! WHY??? just so we've got the ball??? Genius....

You could take some solace from the comeback, and yes I am pleased we didn't play as meek wankers in the second half as the first but I'm fucked if we should congratulate the fact that we actually had a go in the second half, we should have been at it from the get go.

Against a team who have been conceding lots of goals we conspired not to fucking attack until it was 2 nil down...

They didn't even need Uncle Howard.

 

[peterhague]

All those claiming yesterday was the most abject performance at OT in living memory (see HT in the match thread for hysterical hissy-fits galore) clearly don't remember last year, when we pretty much did exactly the same thing, being completely overrun in midfield and playing like a bunch of frightened kittens. However things only got better in that game when Scholes went off for them and the much vilified Charlie Adam came on for us and put his foot on the ball. That was with about 15 minutes to go. Until then we were absolutely clueless in that game. At least BR did manage to change things at HT, even if he clearly started with the wrong team.

I'd also say that those bashing Kenny with the money spent argument should probably consider being quiet now though. I think I'm right in saying that BR already has a higher total net spend than Kenny. The success of those signings is yet to be gauged but some of them are not yet pulling up trees. They've had more time than some of Kenny's had before some of the same people now calling for patience were ripping them apart.

I'd usually be totally supportive of a net spend argument, but when £50m of it comes from selling a striker worth £25m, then I'm much less sympathetic. IMO the only thing that might redeem Kenny's spending record somewhat is whatever part Comolli have played in the decisions. Between them they were responsible for the worst period of wastefulness in the club's history.

 

[Fox]

On Allen I simply get annoyed with the money we spent on him with all the other CM players we have. That's good money which could have gone elsewhere.

 

[mark1975]

On Allen I simply get annoyed with the money we spent on him with all the other CM players we have. That's good money which could have gone elsewhere.

Yup, maybe in the longterm it'll be a good investment, but in terms of impact this season, would we have been worse off playing Hendo or Shelvey and spending the £15 a DM/CB?

 

[doctor_mac]

I'd usually be totally supportive of a net spend argument, but when £50m of it comes from selling a striker worth £25m, then I'm much less sympathetic. IMO the only thing that might redeem Kenny's spending record somewhat is whatever part Comolli have played in the decisions. Between them they were responsible for the worst period of wastefulness in the club's history.

That's fair enough. The point remains that some of Kenny's signings were being crucified within a few matches, despite arguably having a greater impact than some of the current intake.

 

[Fabio]

That's fair enough. The point remains that some of Kenny's signings were being crucified within a few matches, despite arguably having a greater impact than some of the current intake.

Yeah it's hard to argue Adam did more than Allen

 

[doctor_mac]

Yeah it's not hard to argue Adam did more than Allen

 

[Fabio]

is what i meant
Adam did more than allen.

 

[juniormember]

Yup, maybe in the longterm it'll be a good investment, but in terms of impact this season, would we have been worse off playing Hendo or Shelvey and spending the £15 a DM/CB?

I think he was bought for instant impact, which was the problem. If he was bought for the long term, we could have spent 15m (plus the 6m we had lined up for Dempsey) on a great attacking midfielder, then waited for the following summer to buy Allen.
Would Allen's price have increased any more than last year? I doubt it. Not only that, but Swansea knew Rodgers was desperate to bring his own player in for his first season, so 15m was obviously an inflated price.

 

[Silver Sean]

Excluding that ONE season which was clearly not the norm......... It was the exception. One season in about 20 years.
Accept it Sean, we are not what we were. We are mid table mediocrity that might sneak into Europe, even though we all secretly hope for a top 4 place. Until we accept this, these boards will be full of over-reaction and delirious arm-waving when we should expect what we got today............
Poor half, good half, lost by the odd goal, could have drew but 8 times out of ten we would lose this game. As would most sides in the league.

I understand your point. My problem is we are being drip-fed the bullshit from board and manager down that we should lower our expectations and we are a work-in-progress and we should accept that we are going to be mediocre until Rodgers vision, philosophy and system (fuck me am I sick of hearing about that) all comes together and we are top of the tree again. I cannot see how with these owners (love them though I do for saving the club when they did), the money we spend, and this manager will ever get us back challenging.
We are Liverpool, we should NEVER accpet second best, sadly we are second best on and off the pitch in every area.

 

[Silver Sean]

Dreambeliever said: ↑

So because you felt we were going backwards it was ok for you to stick the boot in but if others now feel the same about Rodgers they lack patience?​

Right you are.​

Ryan said: ↑


I didn't feel that way under Dalglish. We were going backwards.
Of course you didn't.

Ryan is not a real Liverpool supporter. He is someone who spends his life watching on TV and fitting his own agenda.

 

[Ryan]

Ryan is not a real Liverpool supporter. He is someone who spends his life watching on TV and fitting his own agenda.

And the jester hat. Don't forget about me wearing the jester hat.

 

[Insignificance]

I was shocked of the amount of technical mistakes done by both teams. Easy passes went straight to opposision and I lost count how many times they "rolled" over the line for a throw in. Our guys were worse. Also how many times did We try to take on a player by slowly running straight at him? Very strange to see this from 2 teams in such a high profile match.

 

[Gary25]

I was shocked of the amount of technical mistakes done by both teams. Easy passes went straight to opposision and I lost count how many times they "rolled" over the line for a throw in. Our guys were worse. Also how many times did We try to take on a player by slowly running straight at him? Very strange to see this from 2 teams in such a high profile match.

Thought it was a really strange match throughout tbh.

 

[StevieM]

I understand your point. My problem is we are being drip-fed the bullshit from board and manager down that we should lower our expectations and we are a work-in-progress and we should accept that we are going to be mediocre until Rodgers vision, philosophy and system (fuck me am I sick of hearing about that) all comes together and we are top of the tree again. I cannot see how with these owners (love them though I do for saving the club when they did), the money we spend, and this manager will ever get us back challenging.
We are Liverpool, we should NEVER accpet second best, sadly we are second best on and off the pitch in every area.

I don't think we are being drip fed bullshit at all - a dose of the realities of modern football perhaps?

The last team we had that was capable of challenging at the very top is gone - even the players from it that remain don't seem capable of playing at the same level - age & injuries taking their toll on a few.

There are only a finite number of owners around that could provide the amount of money to push a team to the top.

Widely held view is that our current owners had enough for one big transfer window splurge and it was blown on players who don't contribute anywhere near enough.

There is no magic wand. We have the finances to buy good players - but they'll either be too old so as to question their value or too young to significantly improve us immediately, so it's a long term strategy.

As Ross and a few others have continuously pointed out - there is little point spending bucket loads on older players in their prime to improve us immediately because in a few years we'll need to spend a similar amount just to replace them. We don't have the finances - its that simple.

Despite Gerrard's doubts, it's crystal clear that our plan is to focus on buying players under the age of 23 and develop them into decent players that we can either mold in to a top team or sell for funds.

The compelling argument is that great teams that have not been simply bought have come about through young players coming through the ranks together and have been molded into a successful unit by years of playing together under a similar style or philosophy.

We're about 2 years away at the moment.

 

[gkmacca]

The plan is to buy players under 23 and develop them into players over 23.

 

[LarryHagman]

If we're not careful though, these 23 year olds will be 26 or 27 in 3 or 4 year's time.

 

[gkmacca]

If we're not careful though, these 23 year olds will be 26 or 27 in 3 or 4 year's time.

Excellent!

 

[Y1]

It's a load of botox

 

[StevieM]

The plan is to buy players under 23 and develop them into players over 23.

Yes.

Questions?

 

[StevieM]

Oh you know what I mean.

By them when they're young - so that we have them in their prime, integrated into the team and at their peak value if we want to sell.

 

[Modo]

Downing urges Liverpool to rediscover mental strength after yet another loss to a big club

By DOMINIC KING
PUBLISHED: 23:18 GMT, 14 January 2013 | UPDATED: 23:18 GMT, 14 January 2013

Stewart Downing believes Liverpool have a duty to prove they remain a team for big occasion by rediscovering their mental strength.

‘The manager said it is all very well coming off the pitch and saying you played well but we didn’t pick up a point,’ said Downing. You can’t give United too much respect, as they have got players who can hurt you. Once (Robin) van Persie put them ahead, it was difficult for us.
‘If we had started how we did in the second half (in the first half), I think we would have got a result. But we let them pass it around and we sat back. That was the first thing the manager said to us at half-time: he told us we had to go and get in amongst them.'

He added: ‘He told us we had to press them and test them. Even though they are good players, if you put them under pressure they can struggle. We certainly did that in the second half. That is why we were so disappointed in the dressing room. We had chances to get at least a draw out of the game.

‘We have given (United) two tough games this season but we haven’t even come away with a draw. If have to play like we did in the second half, no matter who it is against. If you believe in the way you play in, you will always have a chance.’
There was a noticeable lack of tackling from Liverpool in the first 45 minutes and the ease with which United carved Rodgers’ side apart evoked memories of the goals Liverpool conceded earlier in the season against Aston Villa at Anfield and Young Boys Berne in the Europa League.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2262491/Stewart-Downing-urges-Liverpool-rediscover-mental-strength.html#ixzz2I01nZW00

---------------

Repeating myself has been somewhat of a tiresome cliché on this forum, but fuck Downing.
Fuck him right in his fucking useless left foot.

 

[gkmacca]

Downing? DOWNING??? DOWNING???

 

[gkmacca]

Oh you know what I mean.

By them when they're young - so that we have them in their prime, integrated into the team and at their peak value if we want to sell.

That sounds ingenious.

 

[Ryan]

Stewart Downing giving lectures on “mental strength”

Fuck right off you massively shit cunt.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Hahaha, he is taking the piss isn't he?

regards

 

[RedZeppelin III]

it's amazing how he makes it sound like this is stuff he was just learning, that rodgers was teaching them something groundbreaking. fuck me they shouldn't even need to be told this stuff .

 

[Dreambeliever]

If Downing is talking about it then it says alot.

 

[Squiggles]

Stewart Downing giving lectures on “mental strength”

Fuck right off you massively shit cunt.

 

[RedZeppelin III]

i was just looking , stu the cunt has played over 70 games for our club . shows the desperate state we find ourselves in . Hopefully rodgers sticks with his initial plan to fuck this lad off although i fear he won't as he was blowing his own trumpet the other day for getting stu to not look so useless against some shite team .