3-4-3
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It's catching, it seems.
No it's not, this formation is perfect for the players we've got, that's the entire reason we changed to play this way.
Can in replace of Lovren.. Can arguably should be in midfield, preferably as a DM..
Sterling up top.. should be on the wing.. never a striker..
Henderson at times RWB.. should be in the centre
Glen Johnson at the Backline of 3.. I mean WTF was that about ?
Markovic and IBE playing in Wing Back.. positions..
We also seem to have a difficulty in accomodating both Lallana and Countinho in the same line up...
Its working though.. and the football has been much better and great to watch.. So I cannot really complain.
It does suit some of our players, and has definitely brought the zip back into our game, but I maintain the formation is very much a square peg round holes approach.. It is working though and working very well..
Please, just stfu.
The very essence of our transfer policy is that the players have a footballing brain and can fit in multiple positions and with the recent improvement in the team it seems to be working. So why claim they're square pegs when clearly they are adaptable?
I just dont see 3-4-3 as long term solution.. We are missing a key player to make that formation successful as a long term solution..
We can leave ourselves very open to counter attack.. in order for 3-4-3 to effectivley work we need a mascherano type DM.. a destroyer if you like...
At the moment with Lucas being our only recognisable DM and injured.. we are somewhat vulnrable as we have no natural DM covering the back 3..
Allen.. as DM.. its another square Peg in a round hole.. Can probably is the most likely solution, but yet untested (consistantly) for us in this role
Signs of exposure in that position where showing in the first half against Crystal Palace.. Against a more gifted team I can see our weaknesses in this area being exploited heavily... its a concern..
It's a concern that we've only lost like twice in a zillion games.
Yes, a real concern.
#soworried
Yes, a real concern.
#soworried
With a recognised Defensive Midfielder.. you do hope though, like last season Momentum will carry us...
of course you do... it one of the key positions in that formation, in order for it to work effectivley... thats why Lucas was brought in..
Lucas helped control the midfield by disrupting the opponents attack and also connecting the defense with offense by being the start of most attacks. Bit of a unsung hero in our recent run form.
His contribution has been key to our success...
I don't dispute that Lucas contributed a lot. But 3-4-3 can be effective without a DM and in theory a DM is unnecessary in that system, because of the extra CB.
Of all things, this 3-4-3 formation isn't a square pegs in round holes solution. It's the opposite. The formation was designed to fit best to the attributes of the players we had available.
Markovic is a real surprise at wingback. We knew he has the running to get up and down but he is actually quite decent defensively.
Sterling up top is the best solution without Sturridge. No, he's not a winger. He can play anywhere across the front three. He was brilliant at the tip of the diamond last season. He looks more comfortable up top than Ballotelli and Lambert.
Playing Can in a back three is fine. He looks fine there and is harder to exploit than, say, Sahko on the other side. Not sure how he would be in a flat back 4.
We have no difficulties in accommodating Coutinho and Lallana. Just the opposite. Coutinho is back to his best in this formation with Sterling up top.
There is no one long term solution. The formation you use depends on the players you have.
Rodgers deserve a huge amount of credit for getting the most out the players he has available.
Markovic is a real surprise at wingback. We knew he has the running to get up and down but he is actually quite decent defensively.
Sterling up top is the best solution without Sturridge. No, he's not a winger. He can play anywhere across the front three. He was brilliant at the tip of the diamond last season. He looks more comfortable up top than Ballotelli and Lambert.
Playing Can in a back three is fine. He looks fine there and is harder to exploit than, say, Sahko on the other side. Not sure how he would be in a flat back 4.
We have no difficulties in accommodating Coutinho and Lallana. Just the opposite. Coutinho is back to his best in this formation with Sterling up top.
There is no one long term solution. The formation you use depends on the players you have.
Rodgers deserve a huge amount of credit for getting the most out the players he has available.
You've seemed to have replied and ignored my point. With flexible players that can adapt to multiple positions we won't always be playing 3-4-3.
I used to care but now I don't care if Brendan plays Sterling in goal or Ming at left wing and still win games on the trot.
Winning is what matters.
Winning is what matters.
How good is Sterling at picking his nose? Cos Ming is a master at it!
It won't be too long before the opposition figures out how to exploit our shortcomings in the 3-4-3, namely isolating and pressuring our CBs as we've seen them doing the last few matches. Our wingbacks don't provide enough cover for this to work long term, and we've too many talented wide players and fullbacks to keep them in wingback roles anyways. It might last until the end of the season at best.
I think the first ones to expose us will be in the Europa league ties.
I think the first ones to expose us will be in the Europa league ties.
As rurik mentioned you do not need a destroyer like Masch for 3-4-3 to work. There are lot of articles provided by our friend Google and Peps Barca and now Bayern are good example of this. Alonso may be a defensive minded player in current Bayern team but definitely not a destroyer. Because the main theme of 3-4-3 seems to be the pressing and one ineffective player in this system can really screw up the whole Balance of the system. The first goal conceded against Spurs is a good example of what happens when we do not press properly, both Hendo and Gerrard (little) were out of positions and they just let the midfield player go past them. I think it was the Burnley game where 3-4-3 got little exposed because their tactics were perfect as they tried to outnumber our midfield by their pressing.
Allen is a good option against teams who allow us to have possession all the times. But I doubt Allen would work against someone like ManCity. I think even against we might be trouble, but lets see if he can manage that.
Allen is a good option against teams who allow us to have possession all the times. But I doubt Allen would work against someone like ManCity. I think even against we might be trouble, but lets see if he can manage that.
I was convinced that Chelsea would expose us in the League Cup ties, but they did not at all - Lucas certainly helped with that and played very, very well. But we controlled both of those games (even though we lost) and we were not exploited on the edges at all. Malkovich and Moreno did a good defensive job and also applied enough pressure to thwart the Chelsea wingers.
I'm with Ruik on this - a DM in our current setup is pointless.
Those two central midfielders need to be mobile and intelligent enough to help out defence & attack as required.
In the system, Lucas has to get forward, which for me is where he struggles - but he's is better at the defending side of the role - so he helps & is important in that respect.
But.... he's not playing as a DM, and the system only works if the CM roles are ore expansive.
The thing is - it's actually really hard to play a high pressing game against a 343 because it's a really flexible system and it requires the opposition to commit 2 upfront and as soon as they do you can overload them in other areas.
If the opposition stick 1 up front to close down CB's then the ball just gets passed ing the line to the other side - so Can & Sakho become the outlets for taking the ball out of defence.
Last season Gerrard was the outlet - much easier to close down.
If they push attacking midfielders up in behind the forward to the 2 CM's can drop deep & it exposes the oppositions flanks.
If the opposition midfielders try to press on one side it unbalances the other side.
I watched Glen Hoddle do a tactical review before the Chelsea cup games & he was talking up how hard this system was to press against.
I'm certain Rodgers has tweaked the system to combat teams that press - which seems the norm now.
Look at the FA Cup game against Oalace at the weekend - the commentators were shocked that Palace weren't pressing us hard in the first half - they sat back & hit on the counter - and went in 1-0 up.
2nd half - they started pressing high up the pitch - & we scored 2.
To be fair to Rodgers - I think he's more tactically astute than people give him credit for.
We are playing with wing backs that play higher up than the do in the conventional 3-5-2 system.. which is shown by playing IBE or Markovic on the wing..
A defensive midfielder I believe is a must if you want to protect your back 3, especially away from home..
Take against Aston Vila as an example.. Lucas rarely ventures into the opponents half, but provides that link up play that connects the defence to the attack...
We are playing with wing backs that play higher up than the do in the conventional 3-5-2 system.. which is shown by playing IBE or Markovic on the wing..
A defensive midfielder I believe is a must if you want to protect your back 3, especially away from home..
Lucas rarely ventures into the opponents half..
Take against Aston Vila as an example..
I don't know how to get heat maps - but show me Henderson from the same game.
Whilst I'm not sure whether we need a DM in this system, or maybe just a midfielder who isn't Gerrard, its really strange that you're trying to bring in down RedNinja, it seems like you're arguing for arguments sake, it clearly brings out the best in all our players, and I'd argue that playing wing back has bought the best out of Ibe and Markovic too, its given them more space to be dangerous, because I'm sure if they played as wingers they'd have been marked out of the game, something which is impossible when they're travelling with the ball from deep. Its hard to think of one negative of this system, at first I was sure that our wings would be exposed and taken apart, however it hasn't happened, and we've played Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs in that time, if Hazard and Sanchez cant get the better of Ibe / Markovic when playing that role, I'd argue the system is working fucking wonders.
We are playing with wing backs that play higher up than the do in the conventional 3-5-2 system.. which is shown by playing IBE or Markovic on the wing..
A defensive midfielder I believe is a must if you want to protect your back 3, especially away from home..
Take against Aston Vila as an example.. Lucas rarely ventures into the opponents half, but provides that link up play that connects the defence to the attack...
In fact, I think you're disproving your own point - Lucas seemed to be concentrating on the right side of central midfield.
That's whining want to see Henderson's heat map - where was he, how does his movement correlate to Lucas?
You are right in regards to pressing, but my concern is the isolation of our central defenders. While this shouldn't happen in theory, our midfield tends to either push too far forward, or not at all, and doesn't have quite the awareness to exploit this. As good as Henderson has been in the final third at times, he's had a huge number of missed opportunities in linking up the attack with the back line. Allen made up for this some, but the execution is really lacking, forcing Sturridge to drop extremely deep to start the attack.
The isolation issue is exacerbated though because we have overly aggressive wingbacks, so the CBs are missing their most important outlet and cover far too often. This is especially apparent because we saw Sakho several times get coffin cornered with no way out as Moreno was too far up. Against a better team we would've been shredded down that flank. If Moreno starts, expect Sakho to have another poor game.
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