No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying he does the basics well, but we need better. You tried to say that us missing him, when all we had to rely on was a player who ultimately became a Championship player, is significant. It's not is it?
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No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying he does the basics well, but we need better. You tried to say that us missing him, when all we had to rely on was a player who ultimately became a Championship player, is significant. It's not is it?
I don't think that's what people are saying at all. I suppose it's easier to try and win an argument by trying to make other people look stupid instead of actually putting forward a reasoned stance.
I don't think anyone expects that from Lucas, in the same way that nobody expected it from Mascher. The main difference is that there's no danger of Barca pinching Lucas off us, because he's half the player.
In fact, given how average we've been over the last few seasons, it's surprising that no other club has come in and prized Lucas away from us. After all, top players usually generate a bit of interest when they play for average teams. Presumably the world's top club managers don't have a fucking clue how football is played either!
Apparently Kenny rated him.
Anyway Lucas is very underrated, you can't see it, four managers can and now Scolari as well.
This gratuitous argument that he's average is getting boring.
Yes, coming from the guy who has an agenda against every English player in Liverpool.
Eh? Every player has a price. Suarez was "not for sale" all summer. The fact is, nobody made a sensible bid for him. Has anyone ever made a bid for Lucas?
All players are available. Whether they go depends only on how much money is offered.
Lucas started off as a box-to-box midfielder and Benitez ground him down into a defensive midfielder. I think he's stuck with that for the rest of his career. I've no complaints about the job he does, except that most of the free-kicks he gives away are stupid and unnecessary. They're not last-ditch saving tackles.
Lucas started off as a box-to-box midfielder and Benitez ground him down into a defensive midfielder. I think he's stuck with that for the rest of his career. I've no complaints about the job he does, except that most of the free-kicks he gives away are stupid and unnecessary. They're not last-ditch saving tackles.
Is that really the way to judge a players worth? Nobody ever made a bid for Carragher, (that I can remember anyway). John Terry, Rio Ferdinand(since he joined United), Sami Hyypia and I'm sure there are more.
There's a big trend that defensive players don't get bid on as much, probably down to the fact they won't make the headlines as much, don't get mentioned by commentators as much etc.
Apparently Napoli are going to bid 12m for him in January. So sez the rumour mill.
Those are not great examples. Carragher is Liverpool through and through, and we were regularly competing for honours when he was at his peak. Ditto Sami. Terry is Chelsea's captain, and again, Chelsea have been a force since Abramovich took over. Why would Rio leave United?
The point I was making is that players who are too good for their clubs usually attract attention from elsewhere. Given how poor we've been, it's a little surprising that such a top player would not attract attention from other clubs. It didn't stop clubs sniffing around Skrtel and Agger, for instance. It's almost as if Lucas has found his level here.
And if Rafa comes in for Lucas, we should take him to the cleaners. It'd be our one and only chance to make a decent profit on him.
Exactly.
I don't think Lucas is necessarily too good for us. But he is an important part of the way we play, and does a lot of work that isn't as easy to notice when passively watching a match(I'm suggesting you do that, but lots do).
Yes, we could improve on him, there are players that offer more going forward, and are close to his equal defensively. But no where near as many as some make out. Some of the names mentioned as potentially better than him are just plain wrong. We need another midfielder to compliment him more than we need an improvement on him.
He'll most likely never be brilliant, but he could well play a part in getting us into the top three.
Since Lucas became a regular for us we've finished 7th, 6th, 8th, and 7th. That's his level, and if we have aspirations to move into the upper echelons of the league again, we need to be replacing players like Lucas. I'm not scapegoating here - there are a number of other players we need to improve on - but he is symptomatic of our fall from grace, for me.
The same could be said for half our squad. We've not done very well since Suarez joined either.
You can't correlate the teams results directly with one single player, unless he was not actively playing a part in helping us win matches, which obviously isn't the case.
I wasn't correlating the results with one player. That's why I said I'm not scapegoating. I'm simply saying he looked very much at home in a side averaging 7th in the table. What's more, Lucas was symptomatic of (not solely responsible for) our decline. He became a regular right at the beginning of it, and replaced a vastly superior player. And you're absolutely right - the same could be said for half our squad. But Rodgers has strengthened in several areas since he arrived. There are still some holes in the team, but it's largely the midfield that needs addressing now. I'd like to think it's an area he'll be looking to improve in the next couple of transfer windows.
Lucas is average. He's not bad but he isnt very good either.
If we want to achieve anything we need better.
5 yellows is the perfect example of someone off pace and to slow in the tackle.
Its no surprise that the club is apparantly looking at strenghtening dm/m in January.
I hope we spend enough to get some real quality. We'd improve greatly.
Fernando Reges or Gonalons would be my targets.
If we want to achieve anything we need better.
5 yellows is the perfect example of someone off pace and to slow in the tackle.
Its no surprise that the club is apparantly looking at strenghtening dm/m in January.
I hope we spend enough to get some real quality. We'd improve greatly.
Fernando Reges or Gonalons would be my targets.
Perhaps clubs bid for players because their agents imply that they are open to a move?? Maybe that is why we don't see bids for the likes of Terry, Carragher, Rio, Scholes etc over the years.
Significantly? No. But he is better than most of the other DMs in the league. The question was if he would make any of the top 8 teams, he definitely would.
Another desperate grasp for an indication of quality. He's good enough to play a part but is one of a scarce, low standard group of players in his position. He wouldn't beyond question make his mark as an out and out first teamer for any of the top sides, not to a degree where I would be concerned about any significant impact.
He would improve United, Chelsea, Everton and Arsenal, so I don't buy that.
I don't know what you're on about. A question was posed. I answered it. He would certainly make most sides in the league, including top ones. City are about the only one(I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting) he definitely wouldn't make.
He's an easy target, because his benefits aren't as easy to see, but he's far from our weakest link.
This boy is already showing how to play the position with aplomb. 16 years old, but give it 2 seasons before Jordan Rossiter features in our CM:
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