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Lucas

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I agree to a degree, it just seems a rather fruitless exercise for us and him, to be refining his role in the team at this stage, when he's spent the best part of 10 years now roaming between the lines with license to do pretty much what he wants. Ultimately it's going to take time and some degree of indulgence, something we can't really afford ourselves. If we're looking at longerterm, we should be trying to rethink how the team will shape up to last the course. It'd be more productive to have him used more sparingly in a role that he excels/excelled in.



Yes. And he has time still. It's amazing to think he's only a few months younger than Pirlo. The way Pirlo gets talked about by some pundits (all of the help he needs, all of the 'legs,' etc) you'd think he was about 50 and on some mad Stanley Matthews walk of honour. Gerrard is still so much more dynamic and can still be aggressively positive further up the field. He just needs to be more disciplined in his judgement. That would be much easier in the short term than learning a new role.
 
Just heard the news on twitter from some teenager in Pakistan, he died from the knee injury

RIP Lucas. YNWA

(Terrible news if true)


Maybe we will just leave his corpse on a wheelbarrow in front of our penalty area. It'll cut out the silly fouls.
 
In all seriousness, the interesting thing about the fallout from the Villa game is that Stevie's role us up for discussion. I was thinking about it over the weekend and Rogers has done that really well. He also seems like he's learning his lessons and admits when he gots it wrong. 2 articles from The Guardian sort of say the same thing. If he can use these lessons well, then it was worth the dropped 2 points imo.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jan/20/premier-league-talking-points

2) Rodgers's Gerrard discussion may come sooner than expected
Over his long and illustrious career Steven Gerrard has made headlines by being a gallivanting giant around the pitch, shooting down the odds stacked against his team with incredible strikes, lung-busting runs and bone-crunching tackles. What he has never been, is a midfield metronome. At his most effective he was a second striker to Fernando Torres. At his most prolific, he was a right-sided midfielder who cut in. In both these roles his athleticism was key. Tailoring this kind of game is difficult for an ageing player who has never been able to control traffic in midfield, instead preferring to bustle his way through it. Rodgers's midfield has looked at its most fluent this season with a trio of Lucas Leiva, Joe Allen and Jordan Henderson, each sharing the responsibility between them in the absence of Gerrard. Henderson, particularly, has looked like the shackles have been taken off without the shadow of his club captain looming over him. Gerrard struggled badly in the first half of the 2-2 draw against Aston Villa. He may not be a spent force yet, especially given that Lucas – whose presence as a second-half substitute brought an assuredness back into Liverpool's play – may face a spell on the sidelines, but if a successful Champions League push means fielding a midfield without England's World Cup captain, then Rodgers may have to get even more creative with his formations or find himself having a tricky conversation much sooner than anticipated.Gregg Bakowski

And Brodge admitting he got things wrong....

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/19/liverpool-brendan-rodgers-aston-villa-draw

Liverpool will intensify efforts this week to sign Mohamed Salah, the 21-year-old Egyptian winger whom Basel rate at £12m. More ingenuity, more excitement and more depth are always welcome, though they are not necessarily the priorities for Brendan Rodgers on the evidence of another Anfield trial by Aston Villa.
Like Lloyd Bridges's character in Airplane!, who picked the wrong week to give up smoking, amphetamines and sniffing glue, Rodgers chose an inopportune time to promote Liverpool's title claims, Steven Gerrard's development as a deep-lying midfielder in the Andrea Pirlo class and then to rest Lucas Leiva. And the wrong opponents. "Probably across the board we were not very good," the Liverpool manager conceded. "Myself included."
Villa's midfield diamond and front two prospered as an imbalanced Liverpool toiled without the Brazilian midfielder's astute protection. They resembled a cohesive, potent unit for the 21 second-half minutes Lucas was on the pitch. His exit with a knee injury after an innocuous collision with Fabian Delph may have serious repercussions for Liverpool's campaign – and perhaps January's transfer business – should scans over the next 48 hours confirm the worst. "It's in God's hands," tweeted Lucas after leaving Anfield on crutches.
It would be wrong, however, to pin a disjointed Liverpool performance and anxiety-strewn draw on one selection decision by Rodgers. "For me, the system is irrelevant," he said. "The style will always be maintained to control and dominate games. I felt we could be aggressive and our front two would really give them a problem but we never got control of midfield and we couldn't build the game from behind."
 
There's a telling comment in there though, "the system is irrelevant". Of course it's relevant, it's the reason we lost it in the middle of the park, they out numbered, out-fought and out-thought us.
 
There's a telling comment in there though, "the system is irrelevant". Of course it's relevant, it's the reason we lost it in the middle of the park, they out numbered, out-fought and out-thought us.


Yes, and it concerns me that after a season and a half we still don't seem to be trying to marry possession with attacking nous in the style of Rodgers' Swansea. Even the shambolic Swansea of today don't show the kind of neurotic obsession with passing backwards that we do. Clever, quick-witted and mobile players should regard that option as the last resort, especially when they have the ball deep in their opponents' half, but too many of our players don't hesitate before turning and passing back to our CBs, who in turn, completely unpressured, turn and pass back to Mignolet, who then loses possession with a poor throw or kick. The turning point for me is when that compulsive sequence starts to fade.
 
I am pretty confident I could take a 11 year old girl with learning difficulties, and have her stand in one place and pass the ball according to my instructions within a week. I don't really see what the problem is. Gerrard is our most talented midfielder by miles. We can hardly afford to discard him for the retarded reason that someone far less talented is better than Gerrard at standing in one place.
 
I am pretty confident I could take a 11 year old girl with learning difficulties, and have her stand in one place and pass the ball according to my instructions within a week. I don't really see what the problem is. Gerrard is our most talented midfielder by miles. We can hardly afford to discard him for the retarded reason that someone far less talented is better than Gerrard at standing in one place.


But he doesn't stand in one place. Maybe he needs learning difficulties.
 
I don't think he works in the role either with someone or on his own. If he's alongside someone, they only end up isolated. He should play behind the strikers or at worst, wide right delivering balls.

I'm with you Mark - I've being saying Gerrard needs to be further forward from the start of last season.

The problem is, Rodgers has tried every other single midfielder he has (and some that aren't midfielders) in more advanced positions than Gerrard.

There's a gourd argument to be made that we play better with not only Gerrard out of the team, but Sturridge too.

Both good players, but cause us to compromise our "system" to incorporate their talent.

That saying if we really must play Suarez & Sturridge as a front 2, then Gerrard just in behind them, works for me.

Coutinho & Sterling are the losers in that system though - unless Rodgers goes mental and puts them both at full back.
 
Although we have the likes of Suso and Teixeira waiting patiently to play there, with more pace and energy and hunger, and it would be terrible to block their chances for much longer. And obviously if Coutinho recovers his form and confidence there's another reason against Gerrard being that forward.
 
But he doesn't stand in one place. Maybe he needs learning difficulties.

Then you spend a few minutes manipulating him. I'd say listen you need to save your energy for Brazil, your country needs you, I'm trying to do you a fucking favour here you little shit, stop being a fucking hero and do as you're told, etc.
 
Our best system is the one Rodgers was using with Moses behind two strikers, three centre backs, wing backs. But nooo, the minute Coutinho is back ready to step into that side and win us the title, Rodgers turns into a fucking cock and opts for a retarded 442 / 4231.

Sterling can got to right wing back. Johnson can go to hell. Coutinho can play in the middle. Our strikers can play in the middle. It's perfect. The only thing we miss is a left back, but a couple of injections and some verbal abuse will be enough to get Flanagan fit again.
 
Our best system is the one Rodgers was using with Moses behind two strikers, three centre backs, wing backs. But nooo, the minute Coutinho is back ready to step into that side and win us the title, Rodgers turns into a fucking cock and opts for a retarded 442 / 4231.

Sterling can got to right wing back. Johnson can go to hell. Coutinho can play in the middle. Our strikers can play in the middle. It's perfect. The only thing we miss is a left back, but a couple of injections and some verbal abuse will be enough to get Flanagan fit again.


Hahaha... No!
 
Although we have the likes of Suso and Teixeira waiting patiently to play there, with more pace and energy and hunger, and it would be terrible to block their chances for much longer. And obviously if Coutinho recovers his form and confidence there's another reason against Gerrard being that forward.

Is Teixeria capable of a deeper role?

I know I keep asking this, but what happened to Yalany Baio - he's supposed to be a good prospect for a DM?
 
Is Teixeria capable of a deeper role?

I know I keep asking this, but what happened to Yalany Baio - he's supposed to be a good prospect for a DM?


One has to infer from his total lack of playing time for the reserves that neither the youth coaches or Rodgers rates Baio at all and that he therefore has no future here.

Things also look fairly bleak for Teixeira as well, given that he's now 21 and has yet to trouble the first team squad, even for cup games. Again the obvious conclusion is that Rodgers doesn't rate him. The word is that he's not a very hard working type, and if that's true there's no way BR would go for him IMO.
 
Our best system is the one Rodgers was using with Moses behind two strikers, three centre backs, wing backs. But nooo, the minute Coutinho is back ready to step into that side and win us the title, Rodgers turns into a fucking cock and opts for a retarded 442 / 4231.

Sterling can got to right wing back. Johnson can go to hell. Coutinho can play in the middle. Our strikers can play in the middle. It's perfect. The only thing we miss is a left back, but a couple of injections and some verbal abuse will be enough to get Flanagan fit again.

You're right, Moses does look better in the hole. The shithole in SW6.
 
Dantes has a point though. We were playing some of our best football then - good enough, in fact, for Moses' general sh!tness not to be a problem.
 
If we had 3 decent centre backs fit, I wouldn't massively be against it
 
Dantes has a point though. We were playing some of our best football then - good enough, in fact, for Moses' general sh!tness not to be a problem.


Thanks. I didn't mean to suggest that Moses could reasonably pass himself off as a professional footballer. The point was the system was perfect, all it needed was for that piece of shit Moses to be replaced by Coutinho and we'd have been unstoppable.

Unfortunately it's gone to shit now. We're too many points behind. Our centre backs have been injured and being dropped has damaged their confidence. Same for the midfield. It's all ruined. For no fathomable reason.
 
Thanks. I didn't mean to suggest that Moses could reasonably pass himself off as a professional footballer. The point was the system was perfect, all it needed was for that piece of shit Moses to be replaced by Coutinho and we'd have been unstoppable.

Unfortunately it's gone to shit now. We're too many points behind. Our centre backs have been injured and being dropped has damaged their confidence. Same for the midfield. It's all ruined. For no fathomable reason.

I know, I wasn't being a cunt, just couldn't pass up the opportunity. I think it worked well in some ways, it certainly helped us accommodate Sturridge better and made us tighter through the middle.
 
I know, I wasn't being a cunt, just couldn't pass up the opportunity. I think it worked well in some ways, it certainly helped us accommodate Sturridge better and made us tighter through the middle.

The only weakness is getting left short out wide. But we manage to bring that on ourselves anyway through sheer incompetence of Jonhson and Cissokho. So you may as well fuck them and reinforce the centre of defence instead.

In fact I doubt people would get past Sterling so easily as they do with Good Old Glen. I'd even consider Gerrard as a centre back in this system. Which gives me hope as Rodgers in his pathetic weak sauce attempts to "accommodate" our best ever player has hinted at the same idea.
 
I thought 3 at the back was horrific and I still do.

The best Liverpool side I can remember played it. The best England side I can remember also played it. So I think it's the perfect way for a British team to play. It forces them to be close to their team-mates and keep possession, even though they are otherwise shit at doing that. It also gives them their long ball option when they realise part-way through the game that they are useless at football, so better score an ugly goal quickly whilst nobody is looking and, then go back to passing it around.
 
The best Liverpool side I can remember played it. The best England side I can remember also played it. So I think it's the perfect way for a British team to play. It forces them to be close to their team-mates and keep possession, even though they are otherwise shit at doing that. It also gives them their long ball option when they realise part-way through the game that they are useless at football, so better score an ugly goal quickly whilst nobody is looking and, then go back to passing it around.

The side that won 5 trophies in one year?
The side that won the CL?
The side that got to the CL final in 2007?

Oh wait you mean the side wiht Babb macateer and Kvarme in it?

You mustn't watch alot of us so.
 
The best Liverpool side I can remember played it. The best England side I can remember also played it. So I think it's the perfect way for a British team to play. It forces them to be close to their team-mates and keep possession, even though they are otherwise shit at doing that. It also gives them their long ball option when they realise part-way through the game that they are useless at football, so better score an ugly goal quickly whilst nobody is looking and, then go back to passing it around.

Remind me what these particular teams won?

Granted, there are similarities between Rodgers & Uncle Roy's team at the back.

Both were absolutely horrendous, particularly at defending set pieces & the wing backs were gash.
 
That's irrelevant really, it suited us earlier this season, based on getting the most from our best players and shoring up a few of our inadequacies in the short term. I'm not the biggest fan of 352 but you know, 442 is being utilised well by Spurs at the minute, we try it and we're at sixes and sevens because we don't have the players that are suited to it. Horses for courses and all that, playing three at the back was no where near as "horrific" as watching that first half on Saturday where we played the most traditional, orthodox system there is.

People need to seriously stop with this arrogant attitude towards styles and systems, "oh it's the 21st century and no one does that", football is cyclic, systems come and go and the best teams will use a system as a means to get the best from the players they have - NOT just as a means to dictate what players they should buy and play. It's better than shoehorning players all over the place and looking an incohesive shambles. Stylistically if your players are more comfortable in a system, then whatever brand of football you are trying to play should be the reason why you succeed or fail, and should be more likely to do the former if the setup you have promotes the best football from your best players.

In the longterm we know what flaws need addressing to allow us to be more flexible with our setup and our ability adopt different approaches, but in the meantime we should look to get back on track by any means possible, ie having fullbacks that can defend first and foremost (SOooooo not 21st century I know!) and getting the best from players like Suarez, Sturridge and Gerrard/Coutinho, AND our leaky defense.

All of these systems and revolutionary lines of thinking, which posters like to lavish praise on, the ones that have been around for years and years and reinvented time and time again, were all tried first by one side, it's not something that's just developed into public consciousness, it's all part of the big game where people get fed up of systems and usually by trying to combat the dominance of a particular style, or by (as I said), trying to get the best out of what they have, we usually stumble across the latest fad. Ergo, there is no revolutionary system you're going to pick from XI players, it's just decades old ideas that evolve and revolve. People act like 4231 is the revolutionary brainchild of a Spanish genius - it isn't, it's just variation of system that's been used forever.
 
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