Joe Sideways
- Thread starter Piedro
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He is very much part of the dysfunctional midfield. And his contribution is absolutely nothing. he is piss poor at the moment but he will never ever be dropped. And that is only because it could suggest Rodgers had made a bad call.
Allen isn't a game changer, however he can pick a pass. With clever movement next to him and ahead of him (only Luis is doing this), he will become more effective
Gerrard, awful movement atm
Sterling, poor positional play and movement
Shelvey, moves about but us out if his usual position on the wing
With better movement I'm sure he'll go from average and safe to effective quite quickly
Gerrard, awful movement atm
Sterling, poor positional play and movement
Shelvey, moves about but us out if his usual position on the wing
With better movement I'm sure he'll go from average and safe to effective quite quickly
It is shocking that he is behind Allen, Henderson, Lucas, Gerrard, Shelvey and Cole in CM....
Very much this.
He's a huge talent, as far as I'm concerned. If the rest of the team ever gets settled, and the midfield acquires some real coherence, he'll shine. True, he has to play a part in making this happen, but it doesn't help that he's currently surrounded by players who seem at best clapped out and at worst clueless.
He looked pretty good in the first 20-30 mins yesterday.
I have to admit, I'd not watched him before he joined us, and the few games of ours I've seen him in, he's looked poor - but then loads of people were raving about how quality he was, so I figured the jury's out.
Yesterday in the opening stages when we were all over them, he looked to be a part of that - getting his foot in, making interceptions, closing them down, quickly regaining possession, moving the ball on and moving himself into space. For the first time I thought I could see what people were on about.
After the suckerpunch goals his head dropped like everyone else and he was poor, totally at fault for their 2nd, and significantly culpable for their 3rd. But at least I saw a glimmer of what everyone's been going on about
I have to admit, I'd not watched him before he joined us, and the few games of ours I've seen him in, he's looked poor - but then loads of people were raving about how quality he was, so I figured the jury's out.
Yesterday in the opening stages when we were all over them, he looked to be a part of that - getting his foot in, making interceptions, closing them down, quickly regaining possession, moving the ball on and moving himself into space. For the first time I thought I could see what people were on about.
After the suckerpunch goals his head dropped like everyone else and he was poor, totally at fault for their 2nd, and significantly culpable for their 3rd. But at least I saw a glimmer of what everyone's been going on about
Maybe.
but I'd say it's more to do with the fact that he hasn't had a break from games for about 2 calendar years. He played nearly every week last season for Swansea due to their relatively small squad, went straight into the Olympic team and played every game during the summer, and then hasn't missed a game for us.
He's bound to be fucking wrecked.
but I'd say it's more to do with the fact that he hasn't had a break from games for about 2 calendar years. He played nearly every week last season for Swansea due to their relatively small squad, went straight into the Olympic team and played every game during the summer, and then hasn't missed a game for us.
He's bound to be fucking wrecked.
If the rest our outfield players tackled and had as much hustle as him we would win the ball back so much faster. I think he's superb.
So our brilliant signing that have contributed zero now needs a rest. Thank god for that.
I wouldn't go that far, he has been average at best.
His first 3-4 games he was good since then he has been very poor. It will be interesting to see how long rest is required before he hits some form, if indeed he does hit form.
My opinion is that it was a waste of money, not because he isn't a good player but becuase we should have looked at other areas first.
His first 3-4 games he was good since then he has been very poor. It will be interesting to see how long rest is required before he hits some form, if indeed he does hit form.
My opinion is that it was a waste of money, not because he isn't a good player but becuase we should have looked at other areas first.
Personally, I think the "Joe Allen has been playing out of position" excuse is being used to paper too many cracks.
He's a good player but I doubt a move of position is going to propel him to the echelons of "World Class"; whatever that is.
He's a good Premiership player. No more, no less.
He's a good player but I doubt a move of position is going to propel him to the echelons of "World Class"; whatever that is.
He's a good Premiership player. No more, no less.
I never used it as an excuse. I said, that for a player playing out of position, he's done extremely well up until 5 or 6 games ago.
I think Dahuge is bang on the fucking money.
I rate your and Piedro's opinion on things. You're usually not far off.
In this case, I think you're both taking an incredibly short-sighted view. He'll be here for 10 years I'd say, and will be an incredibly good player for us in that time. He's suffering at the moment from fatigue, playing out of position, moving to a new club, adapting to a new system, etc - but mostly because he's playing in a fairly disjointed team. In the same way that 90% of the rest of our team are.
Sure we could have spent the money on a striker, or a winger, or whatever and we might be 3 or 4 points better off, might. But it's papering over the cracks. We need to build a football team, not plug the odd gaping hole. And for the former, I want players like Joe Allen to build that around.
This is one of those threads that we'll look back on in 12 months, 2/3/4 & 5 years time and laugh at.
Ryan, I partially agree.
I do see what Allen can bring to the team and squad, I also understand why Rodgers brought him in first - to hopefully make the other players buy into his methods quicker but also because he sees Allen as the lynchpin of his way of playing.
My concern was\is that our players are not technically upto playing in that manner, they also lack speed - not out and out pace but more in pace of thought and ability to close players down. I would have gradually adapted the system, looking for attacking players to solve the major issue first then bringing Allen in and altering the way of playing. Currently we have gone down the big bang approach and with our set of players it will not work as they are not technically or mentally able to adapt correctly.
More importantly, we need to start winning games as I cannot have my 6 year old coming home even thinking of supporting another team such as the Mamcs, chavs or City....
I just dont feel he's as good as people think Ryan. I'll admit, i have gone a bit far on this, hes not as bad as i make out. But i certainly dont think hes as good as you and others make out. You are only taking this stance as you feel you need to back him. It was money wasted in my opinion. The midfield have been fucking woeful this season and its a huge problem at the minute. More so than the Strikers. Its down to the system. I dont like it one bit. Yeah its lovely having 72% possesion against Villa but where did that get us? We arent Barca. Rodgers needs to realise that.
Anyway. I dont think Rodgers will be here long enough to see this 'project' out. Not what I want, as im fed up to the back teeth of chopping and changing all the time. But im just not sure on these owners, and if it isnt going to plan by Xmas 2013, i can see Rodgers on his way.
Anyway. I dont think Rodgers will be here long enough to see this 'project' out. Not what I want, as im fed up to the back teeth of chopping and changing all the time. But im just not sure on these owners, and if it isnt going to plan by Xmas 2013, i can see Rodgers on his way.
T
the_khl
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My only concern with Allen is one I've also had with Lucas, Masher amongst others. He just looks very unlikely to chip in.
He's a very intelligent footballer so much is obvious, and I like the way he moves around the pitch making himself available and creating space. All good and he'll become even better.
However we simply can't afford to have a team with so many non-scoring types as we have at the moment and for a long while back to be honest. Especially whe we don't have that killer forward in terms of goals.
I know posters on here keep on saying a defender is there to defend, a defensive midfielder's there to hold the lines etc, is all true of course, but you win your games from goals. Not from keeping a cleen-sheets and a balanced midfield. That helps of course.
If Rodgers are planning a midfield with Lucas and Allen, I believe we'd be lucky to see two goals between the two over the course of a Season and that simply won't suffice if we want to compete. Unless the rest of the pack scores freely of course. Sturridge perhaps, Borini, Gerrard, Suarez, Henderson, Johnson, Enrique, Agger, Skrtel, Shelvey, Raheem and Sterling.
He's a very intelligent footballer so much is obvious, and I like the way he moves around the pitch making himself available and creating space. All good and he'll become even better.
However we simply can't afford to have a team with so many non-scoring types as we have at the moment and for a long while back to be honest. Especially whe we don't have that killer forward in terms of goals.
I know posters on here keep on saying a defender is there to defend, a defensive midfielder's there to hold the lines etc, is all true of course, but you win your games from goals. Not from keeping a cleen-sheets and a balanced midfield. That helps of course.
If Rodgers are planning a midfield with Lucas and Allen, I believe we'd be lucky to see two goals between the two over the course of a Season and that simply won't suffice if we want to compete. Unless the rest of the pack scores freely of course. Sturridge perhaps, Borini, Gerrard, Suarez, Henderson, Johnson, Enrique, Agger, Skrtel, Shelvey, Raheem and Sterling.
If you view Allen as a DM I'd agree, but I don't think he'll play there long-term.
I remember saying something similar when Johnson signed.
So if Allen isnt a DM as you say, is it reasonable to expect 8-10 goals a season from him?
Double figures might be pushing it a bit, at least to begin with, but I'd hope for half a dozen or so if (a) he gets a long run in a position further forward and (b) the whole team clicks together properly. Goals, highly important as they are to the team as a whole, aren't the only criterion for success with a creative player like Allen IMHO.
I just feel if we already have one DM (lucas) who wont really be scoring, then we should be expecting goals from the other 5 offensive players.
We used to get 6-8 our of Xabi and he was a holder to begin with.
Obv im not expecting that out fo Allen this season as he has played as the holder but thats what im after next season at the very least.
Which he wont get im afraid.
We used to get 6-8 our of Xabi and he was a holder to begin with.
Obv im not expecting that out fo Allen this season as he has played as the holder but thats what im after next season at the very least.
Which he wont get im afraid.
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