When Savage speaks sense ...

[LeTallecWiz]

[article]It’s time to address the latest Luis Suarez penalty storm with honesty.

In the last week, I have seen a couple of English players go down far too easily in and around the box, and nobody batted an eyelid.

But when Suarez is the fall guy, it’s back-page news and banner headlines... because he’s Luis Suarez.

When Suarez went down, and Steven Gerrard scored Liverpool’s equaliser in the 2-2 draw with Aston Villa last Saturday, it WAS a penalty.

Keeper Brad Guzan comes rushing out, at speed, and dives across a wet surface at Suarez’s feet.

There WAS contact – maybe not a hammer-blow, but enough to establish beyond any doubt Guzan caught the striker’s right ankle – and referee Jon Moss made the RIGHT decision.

Was it a dive? No. A dive is when you are tripped up by thin air or you simulate contact where there was none.

Did Suarez make the most of it? Yes. But that doesn’t alter the fact he was first to the ball and Guzan caught him.

On Monday, I saw Everton full-back Leighton Baines go down very, very easily under a challenge from West Brom’s Steven Reid, where any contact looked minimal – and it attracted barely a ripple of feedback.

Does that mean it’s okay for an England international to gain maximum advantage from these incidents, but if it’s a Uruguayan, with a history of controversy, it’s okay to hammer him?

Some fans need to get off their high horses, get off Suarez’s back and judge each incident on its merits – not because certain players are involved.

We’re lucky to be watching a Premier League striker running Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo close as the world’s best player, so let’s enjoy Suarez instead of fanning the flames of bogus penalty controversies.
[/article]

 

[Frogfish]

Many don't like Savage .. and not without reason .. but I do like that he comes out and speaks his mind truthfully rather than going with the flow of opinion. This isn't the first time. His column is often worth a read.

 

[Dahuge]

He speak the truth

 

[Rosco]

I didn't really see many headlines about it but the reason he gets them for diving isn't because he's foreign.

Ashley young gets these headlines too.

And him and Suarez have a history of diving. Baines doesn't.

 

[Mystic]

Baines has dived many times in the past, maybe not to the same level as Suarez, and certainly not the same level as Young.

 

[cloggypop]

Young does not seem to have managers past and present picking him out for it. Nor did Bale.

 

[Dahuge]

Honest question how many times has Suarez been booked for Simulation compared to other premier league players and are the headlines he gets for Diving disproportionally high compared to others?

I think the answer is yes.

 

[cloggypop]

Janujizz is worse

 

[Judge Jules]

Savage probably feels a certain sympathy for Suarez as one widely reviled "bad boy" for another. Doesn't change the fact that he's spot on about this.

 

[juniormember]

I didn't really see many headlines about it but the reason he gets them for diving isn't because he's foreign.

Ashley young gets these headlines too.

And him and Suarez have a history of diving. Baines doesn't.

How many times has Suarez been booked for simulation as opposed to Young, Oscar, etc?

 

[Rosco]

I've no idea. And I don't know why it matters.

Are you trying to argue Suarez isn't a diver ?

Even though he has admitted to doing it in the past

 

[jexykrodic]

Suarez is often too honest for his own good. He'd be much better off emulating his peers and remaining silent. Honesty is never the best policy.

 

[FoxForceFive]

Suarez hasn't simulated this season. Whether in the box or not.

Sadly though his past is what people remember.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Will you guys never learn?

 

[ILD]

I've no idea. And I don't know why it matters.

Are you trying to argue Suarez isn't a diver ?

Even though he has admitted to doing it in the past

It does matter to some. I'm sure people find it frustrating, I do at times.
Everyone will admit Suarez is a bit of a diver but i'm sure Young, Bale and Januzaj for example have picked up more cautions than him for diving, yet less of a fuss is made about it.

At one stage Bale was booked three times in the space of a month for diving and it was laughed off. Suarez is branded a cheat however.

 

[Rosco]

Suarez is a cheat.

But why does anyone care ? I couldn't give a fuck

 

[Tal]

Imagine this scenario: a winger is heading down the wing with the ball and the opposition fullback launches a big slide tackle that doesn't appear dangerous as there are no studs showing (or whatever that exact rule is). The winger sees this, pokes the ball forward and jumps over the incoming legs. The fullback misses the ball and player completely. The winger then lands but his momentum and the loss of balance due to the jump cause him to fall over and he loses the ball to the opposition. Clearly, the winger's progress has been impeded by the fullback but without the fullback making any contact with ball or winger.

Is that a foul because the winger was impeded?

 

[Red Astaire]

It's good to back Suarez. We are LFC fans that's what we do. I have a feeling that no matter what anybody says about him Suarez himself really couldn't care less. He just seems impervious to those back page headlines. I like his 'fuck off' attitude.​

 

[Red Astaire]

It does matter to some. I'm sure people find it frustrating, I do at times.
Everyone will admit Suarez is a bit of a diver but i'm sure Young, Bale and Januzaj for example have picked up more cautions than him for diving, yet less of a fuss is made about it.

At one stage Bale was booked three times in the space of a month for diving and it was laughed off. Suarez is branded a cheat however.

I've 'liked' this @ILD because it's not right that a fine fella like you should be stuck on 666 (the devils number) likes. You may now go about your day without being under such a cloud 😉

 

[Rosco]

Imagine this scenario: a winger is heading down the wing with the ball and the opposition fullback launches a big slide tackle that doesn't appear dangerous as there are no studs showing (or whatever that exact rule is). The winger sees this, pokes the ball forward and jumps over the incoming legs. The fullback misses the ball and player completely. The winger then lands but his momentum and the loss of balance due to the jump cause him to fall over and he loses the ball to the opposition. Clearly, the winger's progress has been impeded by the fullback but without the fullback making any contact with ball or winger.

Is that a foul because the winger was impeded?

Everyone knows that refereeing is shite.

And if it wasn't for that there wouldn't be an incentive to make the most of contact and or dive.

The authorities have done nothing of notice to stamp it out.

So my attitude is it is an accepted part of the game. Suarez is good at it.

I don't understand why people get upset by reports of Suarez diving.

 

[jimmy]

Everyone knows that refereeing is shite.

And if it wasn't for that there wouldn't be an incentive to make the most of contact and or dive.

The authorities have done nothing of notice to stamp it out.

So my attitude is it is an accepted part of the game. Suarez is good at it.

I don't understand why people get upset by reports of Suarez diving.

Because it is conceived as a negative thing and we don't like our darling to be painted in bad colours...

 

[ILD]

...and others aren't hit with equal measures of venom.

Bale was biggest diver around. He has history, he was booked three times in a space of a few months. He isn't known as a cheat though.

 

[ILD]

I've 'liked' this @ILD because it's not right that a fine fella like you should be stuck on 666 (the devils number) likes. You may now go about your day without being under such a cloud 😉

Cheers, I feel like a million bucks now.

 

[refugee]

Can't believe this is still going on. Yes he's a cheat, but every other bugger in the entire premiership is a cheat. Shirt pulling, deliberate fouls, off the balls incidents, moving the ball away from where a free kick was granted, not owning up to a handball etc etc etc. These things aren't punished consistently and the FA have no desire to implement any sort of consistent punishment system (actually they do have a consistent system for most of these things: do nothing)

Anyone who went onto the pitch and didn't cheat (aka no one) would be an utter moron.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Everyone knows that refereeing is shite.

And if it wasn't for that there wouldn't be an incentive to make the most of contact and or dive.

The authorities have done nothing of notice to stamp it out.

So my attitude is it is an accepted part of the game. Suarez is good at it.

I don't understand why people get upset by reports of Suarez diving.

I'm in the same camp, I don't really care if our players dive, if they can get away with it. Do what it takes to win.

I think the point people are trying to make is that Suarez is no more of a cheat than anyone else. And he's called out more often and in a bigger way than others that are probably worse/better than him at it.

 

[Asbo]

Robbie Savage gets things right 50% of the time because his mams a Scouser, and it's in his genes

 

[juniormember]

Everyone knows that refereeing is shite.

And if it wasn't for that there wouldn't be an incentive to make the most of contact and or dive.

The authorities have done nothing of notice to stamp it out.

So my attitude is it is an accepted part of the game. Suarez is good at it.

I don't understand why people get upset by reports of Suarez diving.

Because referees let other teams get away with murder when it comes to assaulting Suarez every game. The constant reporting and complaining by managers of Suarez's 'cheating' really does influence referees. And as has been pointed out to you numerous times, many, many other players do as much, or more, than Suarez. The reason why I asked about bookings for simulations, was because players being booked are simulating without having been touched. Why does Suarez hardly ever get booked? Because he doesn't 'dive'. Not when there's no contact. He makes the most of any contact, which is a massive difference.

You don't like Suarez, you wanted him sold, you didn't think he was a goal scorer, we get it.
But you're asking stupid questions ignoring the obvious again just to get a rise.

 

[Farkmaster]

I didn't really see many headlines about it but the reason he gets them for diving isn't because he's foreign.

Ashley young gets these headlines too.

And him and Suarez have a history of diving. Baines doesn't.

I think a significant part of the vitriol leveled at Suarez over the years is ethnocentrism. If he were english, there would be more focus on his passion, his effort, his tracking back etc. and less on the rest of it.

It's just a more nuanced, difficult point to make when he's biting people. Less so when he takes a break from it and has the best attitude of any skillful forward, ever.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I love the way you call it ethnocentrism instead of bigotry & vitriol.

The one point I'd make addressing referees above, is that Ronaldo when at Utd was kicked to shit by everyone & got about as many free kicks & penalties as Suarez (who has won more penalties in the last two seasons than any other player btw).

They are similar in that they both exaggerated contact at times, I believe, simply to make it clear to the ref that they were fouled (that's not to say they weren't massive fakey divers when they arrived, but that they knocked it on the head to a point after some time when it worked against them).

I've no doubt most of you will think this all bollocks, but the fact is its not just Suarez. Divey flamboyant foreigners will get less from the ref cos they don't want to look like dickheads giving a penalty or free kick for simulation.

 

[Judge Jules]

I doubt most of us do think that's bollocks, Foxy. We're aware that this goes wider than Suarez. It does include him though, and he's our player. Other fans can stand up for theirs.