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West Ham post match

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keniget

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Having players that can receive the ball under pressure and not only keep it but do something positive with it immediately elevates the level of your team. I've talked about it for years with regards to Barcelona and how much of a contribution it makes to their whole game. So it was great to watch Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling and Coutinho (when on form) bring that kind of quality to Liverpool.

I don't know if people appreciate that sort of shit but it's like some of the stuff Sterling and Sturridge were doing against Spurs... besides being a joy to watch, it changes the dynamic of a game.

The summer before last I was desperate for a midfielder. It was my number one priority. There was little cohesion, limited ability to dictate the tempo of the game in midfield and for me it was the main reason the defence suffered as much as it did. I figured Rodgers would have to make a decision with regards to Allen. He didn't. In fact, the midfield didn't seem to bother him at all and we went on to have a brilliant season leaving me wondering if I'd gotten it all wrong.

I don't think I did.

The game today and the one last week remind me of a couple seasons back. It's the same lack of cohesion from attack to defence and the midfield... non-existent. The difference last season was that we had a clutch of players that could all receive the ball and in an instant put the opposition on the backfoot, which massively alleviated the pressure on the midfield. Obviously we've lost Suarez, but perhaps have underestimated the loss of form of Coutinho and Sturridge's absence. It's left us with Sterling on his own trying to run things and it's to his credit that he's done as good as job of it as he has, but it's just not enough. The onus has shifted back onto the midfield (and to an extent the defence) and they've come up short. Gerrard has been singled out and whilst he's been poor, it's a wider problem.

Today, Lallana helped when he came on because he posseses some of that quality but it wasn't enough and the damage had already been done. Ballotelli is not a bad player but he's nothing like what we're used to. He needs service (aimless hoofs don't count). Everyone was worried he'd let us down but it's been the other way round so far.

Rodgers got it wrong today. Other teams have worked us out now. They know that if they press us high up the pitch, we'll cave because we panic in our own half. Lucas and Gerrard are too one-paced and seem to be lost with the opposition running rings around them. The defence changed again. Borini seems to possess the right qualities on paper but he was anonymous as I expected him to be.

And then there was the substitution of Manquillo and formation change (to what, I don't know). Every time we had a corner, the ball landed on their left wing and they countered. We had nobody there because we had no RB and Skrtel tucked in. They hit us there time and time again and it really damaged our ability to keep the pressure on. Also, why the fuck was Sakho receiving the ball on out on the left at the halfway line? Was he playing LB? What in fucks name was going on with our shape?

Two defeats on the trot, several steps backwards and perhaps his most important player at this point out injured.... this is where we find how much substance there is behind the Rodgers hype.
 
Its so easy to play us now.

Stick a man on Stevie and that's effectively your whole midfield owned.

Downing was pressing Stevie all game long especially during the first half and Stevie seems to not know what to do in those situations. I mean, it got so pathetic at one point, Stevie was playing as deep as a CB for most parts.
 
from our last 20 games in all comps ( i got bored counting back any further ) we have kept 4 clean sheets . This season it's 1 from 6 . nothing is changing .
 
Its so easy to play us now.

Stick a man on Stevie and that's effectively your whole midfield owned.

Downing was pressing Stevie all game long especially during the first half and Stevie seems to not know what to do in those situations. I mean, it got so pathetic at one point, Stevie was playing as deep as a CB for most parts.

He has been doing that since the start of the season.

It's pointless.
 
I think a lot of people have some seriously selective memories of us last season. Yes, we scored loads of goals, but there were dozens of times where we simply couldn't break through against low level sides. Times when we were consistently on the back foot against Stoke or Sunderland or Southampton, and struggled horribly to get anything against a poor Newcastle side. City should've probably beaten us.

The difference is that we might've scored another goal in the 60th minute or so and gotten a draw, or Suarez might've created something to spur us forward. But we aren't dropping points because we don't have Suarez and replaced him with a clutch of players, we're dropping points because we didn't put enough effort to correct our issues from last season as our artificially high goal tally and table position convinced us that we were better than we actually are.
 
I think a lot of people have some seriously selective memories of us last season. Yes, we scored loads of goals, but there were dozens of times where we simply couldn't break through against low level sides. Times when we were consistently on the back foot against Stoke or Sunderland or Southampton, and struggled horribly to get anything against a poor Newcastle side. City should've probably beaten us.

The difference is that we might've scored another goal in the 60th minute or so and gotten a draw, or Suarez might've created something to spur us forward. But we aren't dropping points because we don't have Suarez and replaced him with a clutch of players, we're dropping points because we didn't put enough effort to correct our issues from last season as our artificially high goal tally and table position convinced us that we were better than we actually are.
Good post.
 
£120m spent and we are starting with Lucas and Borini.

Skrtel and Sakho are clueless.

I don't really trust Rodgers to sort our defending out.
 
I think a lot of people have some seriously selective memories of us last season. Yes, we scored loads of goals, but there were dozens of times where we simply couldn't break through against low level sides. Times when we were consistently on the back foot against Stoke or Sunderland or Southampton, and struggled horribly to get anything against a poor Newcastle side. City should've probably beaten us.

The difference is that we might've scored another goal in the 60th minute or so and gotten a draw, or Suarez might've created something to spur us forward. But we aren't dropping points because we don't have Suarez and replaced him with a clutch of players, we're dropping points because we didn't put enough effort to correct our issues from last season as our artificially high goal tally and table position convinced us that we were better than we actually are.


I think was truer of us in the first half of the season than the second but yeah, right now it feels like we bought for a team with Suarez in it rather than the reality of what we're left with. Just have to hope that injuries clear up and things begin to click. Sturridge is key... and I guess that's what we were all afraid of in the summer for obvious reasons.
 
What was the point of playing Lucas on the side of the diamond and Gerrard at the base? Lallana should have started.

Also, what message is given to Lambert when the striker that Rodgers wanted to sell starts over him?

Having said that, starting with the right formation would not have eradicated the defensive mistakes early in the game. Mignolet's not commanding enough and I dunno what the fuck happened to Lovren. Stop changing the centrebacks all the time. Just pick your 2 best ones and start them.
 
I'll tell you what though...lose next week's derby and serious doubts about Brodgers will be raised.

Don't be daft lad.

I hate to say it but I had the fear of this game from the off. It was pretty obvious we'd drop points. There are some positives to take from it no matter how bitter the pill is right now.
 
It's that we've stopped pressing as a unit that bother me. Win the fucking ball back for Christ's sake
 
At times in that game it was as if Babb, Piechnik and Tanner were playing in that defence.
We're missing Allen, who gives us legs in midfield. Lucas and Gerrard must never play together again, even if it means sticking in a kid with the injuries we have in that area
Subbing off Borini was a mistake as he was doing the running up there. After he went off all the impetus went out of our play as we became so static. Having said that Borini's decision making is poor.
The ref was terrible, not a reason why we lost but we got kicked from pillar to post
 
Steven Gerrard game in numbers: 82% pass accuracy 0 through balls 0 shots 0/5 crosses completed 0 tackles won.
 
At times in that game it was as if Babb, Piechnik and Tanner were playing in that defence.
We're missing Allen, who gives us legs in midfield. Lucas and Gerrard must never play together again, even if it means sticking in a kid with the injuries we have in that area
Subbing off Borini was a mistake as he was doing the running up there. After he went off all the impetus went out of our play as we became so static. Having said that Borini's decision making is poor.

I actually thought Borini did ok. Better than I expected. So did Balloteli. The problems were all in midfield and Gerrard in particular. The defence was poor and Hendo had a rare off game I thought. Lallana did well when he came on but by then WH shut up shop and that was that.

Sakho has absolutely no distribution skills either. Shame.
 
Its so easy to play us now.

Stick a man on Stevie and that's effectively your whole midfield owned.

Downing was pressing Stevie all game long especially during the first half and Stevie seems to not know what to do in those situations. I mean, it got so pathetic at one point, Stevie was playing as deep as a CB for most parts.


It wouldn't be easy to play us now if we started games with the speed and intensity that we did in the latter part of last season. We're now so slow and unsure when we start, we basically hand over the initiative to the other team and allow them to dictate how the game will be played.
 
And where has our pressing game gone ? Only attempted 3 tackles in the West Ham half today.

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Anytime we have started Gerrard/Lucas together in the past year we have been utter dross in Midfield, too slow, no aggression and with Lucas at the base of the diamond, no penetration either.
West Ham's midfield played great in that first half but BR handed it to them on a plate - the difference when Lallana came on after HT and started driving us forward was obvious …. and painful to watch Lucas in comparison.

As an aside even Beglin also said that Lucas is not a patch on the player he was before his injuries.

Again BR was at fault for the defence. Lovern+Sakho were OK last week and there was no need to bring in Skrtel who was utter shite from beginning to end.

It’s difficult to find any positives from that performance but I’d give the ratings as follows :
Ming (5), Moreno (6), Sakho (6.5), Lovren (6), Skrtel (3), Manquillo (until subbed : 6), Gerrard (3), Lucas (3), Henderson (6), Lallana (6), Sterling (6), Balotelli (6.5), Borini (5).

Rodgers (3/10) : only for the two subs; switch to 3 at the back and the Lucas/Lallana sub at HT).

Obviously losing Suarez was going to be a big miss but with Sturridge out too we have completely lost the focus and speed of attack from last season meaning we certainly can not afford to play Sterling deep.

The front two should have been Balotelli & Sterling (as I said before the match), we should have stuck with Lovren+Sakho and not dicked about bringing Skrtel back in, and Lucas should be nowhere near starting for this club, it should have been Lallana in there – all of the above as I said in pre-match comments.
 
It comes to something when I am lamenting the injury to Emre Can. A player I have seen only fleetingly and am now praying he comes back soon to sort us out. Midfield is an abomination at the moment. Allen fit would be be nice too.

That's why I said earlier it was obvious we'd drop points today.

Allen - Injured
Can - Injured
Sturridge - Injured
Lambert - Old and slow
Balloteli - New
Lallana - New and only just back from injury
Sakho/Loven - New Partnership
Skrtel - First game back after injury
Gerrard - Now past it/out of form/playing in the wrong position. Take your pick
Hendo - 3 games in a week.
Lucas - Shit
Borini - First start for us in over a year
Coutinho - Rightly dropped.
Manquillo - New and rightly subbed after 20 mins


What the fuck can do you with that lot stacked against you?
 
I mentioned before the match that SG should be further forward at RM or #10 : he no longer has the legs for 90 mins and BR was well out of line today making him play his 3rd game in 8 days. Insanity. The stats I posted above were very very pertinent :
Steven Gerrard game in numbers: 82% pass accuracy 0 through balls 0 shots 0/5 crosses completed 0 tackles won.
 
It wouldn't be easy to play us now if we started games with the speed and intensity that we did in the latter part of last season. We're now so slow and unsure when we start, we basically hand over the initiative to the other team and allow them to dictate how the game will be played.

And this is all coming from MF Macca. Look at the difference it made having Allen (and later Can) in midfield versus Spurs. We look like we are stuck in tar when we have Gerrard + Lucas together.
 
we're dropping points because we didn't put enough effort to correct our issues from last season as our artificially high goal tally and table position convinced us that we were better than we actually are.

What is an 'artificially high goal tally and table position'? Did we not score those goals last season? Or finish second? Didn't seem artificial to me.

That aside, we've got issues. Rodgers has to earn his coin here. He needs to sort out the defence, get Sterling central and get Sturridge back on the park.
 
... there were dozens of times where we simply couldn't break through against low level sides....

So, there were 24+ times last season when we couldn't break through low level sides..? Last season. When we were held scoreless TWICE. And scored 100+ goals...

Why do you do that..?
 
Positives - Are

Sterling - Tried his arse off and scored a cracker.
Lallana - Looked very good when he came on. Looking forward to see him get up to speed.
Balloteli - Worked his socks off. Defensively as well which was a pleasant surprise
Borini - Not as shit as I thought. Should never have come off.
Lovren - Waaaay the best of the back 3. Seemed to ignite some fire in his belly after that knock by the hapless Sakho

Erm.... That's about it.
 
Rodgers needs his fucking arse sparking ... Gerrard : 3 match in 8 days FFS and he brings in Lucas to partner him. Horrendous, WTF was he thinking.
 
And this is for Modo :

Lucas was fucking shite, on the Echo he is polling absolute bottom out of that horrendous performance with 2.9/10.

And Lallana ? Here's what the Echo had to say :

Adam Lallana made a difference. He showed a couple of nice touches in the match with Ludogorets but couldn't really make an impact against the Bulgarians.
But tonight he was better. His introduction helped lift Liverpool's performance, he held the ball in advanced areas cleverly, allowing more yellow shirts to get into dangerous areas and combining well with Fabio Borini and Mario Balotelli.

Sterling burst beyond him a number of times and received the ball promptly from the former Southampton man. Lallana looked especially good in central areas, picking the ball up and turning to face the opposition defence.

There was one run where he drove at the heart of the Hammers defence and probably should have taken a shot, he chose to pass to Borini and the move broke down, but it was Lallana's close control and willingness to run with the ball that created the danger.
 
Missed the game today, but Rodgers is mentioning a lack of intensity and it's something I've noticed in other games. Are we less fit?

It's not all down to Suarez not being here, is it?
 
Rodgers is about to have his greatest test as a manager so far ... can he push Gerrard out of the starting 11 (like he did to Carra) and not create a problem? Can he re-create the magic of last year's attacking fire, or was that mostly the player that so many of our own posters were happy to see go? Can he find a defensive coach (STEVE CLARKE) to fix this shit already?
 
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