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Walcott refuses to extend his contract

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Delinquent said:
I think you're getting a bit carried away now. Walcott's final ball and decision-making have always been a little suspect. He certainly doesn't "consistently put it on a plate" for anyone.
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I'm sorry, Del, but that's wrong. There's plenty of statistical and empirical evidence to blow that out of the water. Van Persie certainly doesn't agree, anyway. When talking about Walcott's Blackburn performance, he said:

“He has given me so many assists. And for me, if you give an assist then it is worth a goal, especially if you give a great assist. It is as important as scoring a goal. He gave me two simple tap-ins. That makes it more his goal than my goal and he has given me many assists.”

If anything, his inability to do that is what makes him so frustrating. As Sunny alluded to - he's too often looked like a sprinter trying to learn how to play football. Perhaps that's to be expected for someone who came to the game so late in his childhood. Admittedly, his final ball and decision-making have improved slightly over the last year or two, but I'm still not convinced by him. If we bought him we'd be gambling on his upward curve continuing, and him ironing out flaws in his game which remain after 6 years under Wenger's wing.

I'm not altogether against the idea (provided the price is right), but he's certainly not the finished article you're painting him to be.
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When did I say he's the finished article? He's not long turned 23, he's younger than Spearing, and he has been played out of position for most of his career.
 
He has so much pace he just needs to learn to bend his runs a bit, ir sit a bit deeper. He has no need for it.
 
Jack D Rips said:
Not signing a new contract but not being sold this window according to the telegraph
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That would make no sense at all. They either have a choice of getting ten to fifteen million for him, or a couple of million in six months. I suspect it's an attempt at trying to get more money out of him.
 
Mystic said:
Yep, you said he'd achieve a similar tally, okay 15 or more, bicker over 2 goals all you want. What I was saying is if he scores 15 goals in his next 65 appearances it would be a miracle and it would put him in the same bracket as the best wingers in the league, which is quite frankly absurd, he needs time to become that player, it doesn't happen overnight. If he managed ten it would be very encouraging. However in no way should we use Sterling to discredit signing Walcott, they could quite happily both be in our squad.
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How is it absurd? The question is can he score a goal, and anybody who has watched him in the reserves knows that yes he can. He takes up great positions round the box, and if the whole team is playing passing and attacking football, then why shouldn't he be able to get 15 or so (I'm not quibbling, but I did say there's 3 wingers with similar tallys, so yes I wasn't being precise) in that many games? He's already got a senior goal in sod all appearances. And yes it should be used as an argument against signing Walcott, he isn't what we need!

Anyway I'm done, can't be arsed going round in circles with somebody who keeps missing the point.
 
Outlaw said:
I'm sorry, Del, but that's wrong. There's plenty of statistical and empirical evidence to blow that out of the water. Van Persie certainly doesn't agree, anyway. When talking about Walcott's Blackburn performance, he said:

“He has given me so many assists. And for me, if you give an assist then it is worth a goal, especially if you give a great assist. It is as important as scoring a goal. He gave me two simple tap-ins. That makes it more his goal than my goal and he has given me many assists.”

When did I say he's the finished article? He's not long turned 23, he's younger than Spearing, and he has been played out of position for most of his career.
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His final ball has been notoriously bad since he joined Arsenal. One quote from Van Persie after a 7-1 rout against Blackburn doesn't change that. Particularly when it was clearly designed to boost Walcott's confidence after the media had been giving him a hard time. Like I said, there have been signs of improvement over the last couple of seasons, in particular last season, so I'm not against signing him per se - he's definitely on an upward curve. I just think the money could be served better elsewhere, given that we've just signed Assaidi, and are still without a bona fide goal scorer.

As for using Van Persie's opinion to usurp mine, perhaps you'll consider Arsene Wenger's opinion of him, who presumably knows him better than any of us, and a) obviously doesn't agree with you on where he should play, and b) is hardly putting up a fight to keep hold of him.
 
Delinquent said:
His final ball has been notoriously bad since he joined Arsenal. One quote from Van Persie after a 7-1 rout against Blackburn doesn't change that. Particularly when it was clearly designed to boost Walcott's confidence after the media had been giving him a hard time. Like I said, there have been signs of improvement over the last couple of seasons, in particular last season, so I'm not against signing him per se - he's definitely on an upward curve. I just think the money could be served better elsewhere, given that we've just signed Assaidi, and are still without a bona fide goal scorer.
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His final ball hasn't just shown signs of improvement, it has created a shit load of goals.

As for using Van Persie's opinion to usurp mine, perhaps you'll consider Arsene Wenger's opinion of him, who presumably knows him better than any of us, and a) obviously doesn't agree with you on where he should play, and b) is hardly putting up a fight to keep hold of him.
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Having played him out of position for six season, in what was only supposed to be a temporary position to aid his progress, I don't really care what Wenger thinks about that. In fact, as a guy who has sold almost all of his best players over the last seven or either seasons, and won fuck all because of it, I'm not sure how much value I put on him not fighting to keep him either.

But it wasn't the opinion I had a problem with, mate. Not at all. You're more than welcome to think he's shit, or brilliant, or anything in between. I just have a problem, when I've seen it with my own two eyes, when you deny his ability to put it on a plate for somebody. He does do that, it has happened, van Persie said it, there's videos of it. Along with his assist stats, that's just factual.
 
Do you know any Arse fans who think he should play in the middle? I don't.

Here's some quotes from Arse fans in some other topic I'm currently reading. This is all the quotes from the Arse fans... No positives at all.


Will be thrilled if he leaves.

I think we're better with him than without him. However if he leaves I'm more annoyed that we've again let a contract go down to it's last year.

Solid "oh well"

The problem with letting him go now is that we've left ourselves too little time to get a replacement. We need to strengthen before the window closes, we've already got a task on our hands, don't really need to add to it.

He is the Mark Hughes of football players. Got really lucky in being part of a good squad and now has a massively overinflated opinion of himself. He is probably worth about £20,000 a week in wages. Will be exposed if/when he moves.

Parasitic under-performers like him wont be a loss. If he gives it the big "I am leaving to win trophies" routine, then it really will mean "I am leaving to collect a trophy after other players win it for me". Far more than when proper players like Nasri and RvP did it.

My only whinge is that we've left it late in the day. Yoss the Boss is still at Chelsea though, so I can only cross my fingers and hope.....

Theo Walcott tried to sign his name on the contract but lost control of the pen and overran it.

Problem is, he still plays like a schoolboy at times and struggle when teams park the bus and not give him the space he wants. He has his value and I am not "happy" to see the back of him but neither will I shred tears too.

Either Gervinho or Walcott had to go, they both do the same thing.. and badly at that.

If he can go for silly money (like £15mil+) and Arsene brings in a couple more players I'll be pretty happy.

Walcott is crap. Never lived up to his potential, can't dribble, can't shoot and can't pass. People referring to it as 'damage control' from Arsenal fans are just lazily looking for a reason to slate them.
 
Outlaw said:
But it wasn't the opinion I had a problem with, mate. Not at all. You're more than welcome to think he's shit, or brilliant, or anything in between. I just have a problem, when I've seen it with my own two eyes, when you deny his ability to put it on a plate for somebody. He does do that, it has happened, van Persie said it, there's videos of it. Along with his assist stats, that's just factual.
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I didn't deny his ability to do that. I denied his ability to do it consistently. Which when you look at his six years at Arsenal, rather than just his last one, is a perfectly valid concern.
 
Fallon said:
How is it absurd? The question is can he score a goal, and anybody who has watched him in the reserves knows that yes he can. He takes up great positions round the box, and if the whole team is playing passing and attacking football, then why shouldn't he be able to get 15 or so (I'm not quibbling, but I did say there's 3 wingers with similar tallys, so yes I wasn't being precise) in that many games? He's already got a senior goal in sod all appearances. And yes it should be used as an argument against signing Walcott, he isn't what we need!

Anyway I'm done, can't be arsed going round in circles with somebody who keeps missing the point.
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No, you're missing the point, you are saying our 17 year old winger who we are still debating over whether he could even break into the team permanantly, is going to come in and match the best wingers in the league, im all for optimism, but that's pushing it.
 
In fairness Sunny Arsenal fans are the most fickle and clueless out there, they went from Van Persie is a god, can score anything, one of the best strikers ever to oh he's just a finisher, anyone could have scores those goals, Walcott put them on a plate, they're awful. They did the same during the Sahin saga.
 
Delinquent said:
I didn't deny his ability to do that. I denied his ability to do it consistently. Which when you look at his six years at Arsenal, rather than just his last one, is a perfectly valid concern.
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His last two. What happened when he was seventeen and eighteen aren't really relevant. As for consistency, it's not actually what you said. You said "He certainly doesn't "consistently put it on a plate" for anyone. If anything, his inability to do that is what makes him so frustrating", which is what I had a bit of an issue with.

Not all that likely to happen anyway, is it?
 
Outlaw said:
His last two. What happened when he was seventeen and eighteen aren't really relevant. As for consistency, it's not actually what you said. You said "He certainly doesn't "consistently put it on a plate" for anyone. If anything, his inability to do that is what makes him so frustrating", which is what I had a bit of an issue with.

Not all that likely to happen anyway, is it?
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Reasonably likely.
 
Just for the people who won't go back through the thread;

Mystic said:
No, you're missing the point, you are saying our 17 year old winger who we are still debating over whether he could even break into the team permanantly, is going to come in and match the best wingers in the league, im all for optimism, but that's pushing it.
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No I wasn't saying that, I was saying that Walcott isn't what we need and that as a goal threat, by the time Sterling has played that many games, he should have a similar tally. I've said that about 3 times, as clear as day, now. One of my posts even says, I don't think he should be starting every league game.

I'll make it simple; Let's not spend £12M and 75k a week on Walcott. Let's develop our own, young, talented Winger into the player Walcott should be, and save a shit load of cash. Then in a couple of years, we could have someone on a pittance by comparison, who has come though the ranks and knows the club, and is as effective/more effective than Walcott.

*Done*
 
Look- he and Wenger have agreed to hammer out a deal in the next few months, so it isn't happening.

So let's forget about it.
 
I think it'll be great if we spend £15 million on Walcott only to find out later on that £2.5 million Assaidi is better.
 
John Cross' column:

There is no doubt that Arsenal and Arsene Wenger want to keep Theo Walcott.

They have just offered him a five year contract worth £75,000-a-week so don't get dragged into thinking otherwise.

But it's all about how much they want to keep him. The were clues that all was not well in Walcott's contract negotiations amid Wenger's nuances and body language in his press conference last Friday.

Arsenal's transfer fixer Dick Law, the charming Texan charged with negotiating deals and pulling rabbits out of a hat, has an office in the most bizarre of places at the training ground.

It's in the building at the training ground where the press conferences are held. Not exactly ideal for keeping things quiet from the press. And, by sheer chance, I literally ran into the story of Walcott's contract negotiations last Friday.

Agents are often knocking about as it's designed to keep them away from the serious business of training over at the main building. But some walk straight into a room of journalists. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

It was an open goal for me to ask Wenger in our separate newspaper press conference about Walcott's negotiations. It was hardly a state secret as TV reporters had also quizzed him even though they may not have realised the talks had been going on under their noses.

I'll confess here and now: I'm a big Theo Walcott fan. I think he's an asset, I hope he stays and I think there's a good chance he will. I just don't think he envisaged it to play out like this.

So, I offered Wenger a simple pass of a question, fully expecting him to volley it home and give a glowing response about Walcott staying.

I asked: "You've said that talks are ongoing, so how important is it that he stays? He's a player who sometimes divides opinion, but how important is he for your team?"

Wenger replied: "I hope he will stay and that's it. There is big competition going on everywhere. We have so many players in midfield and on the flanks, but Theo is a very important player for me."

But, in truth, the answer was a bit flat. It was as if it came from a manager who knew that Arsenal's opening gambit of £70,000-a-week had not been enough to convince Walcott and his representatives to stay. The talks happened in the morning and Wenger would have heard before his lunchtime presser.

Wenger may have also been playing a game of poker. But if you read between the lines of that answer, it highlights that Wenger wants to keep Walcott - but doesn't think he's irreplaceable.

Maybe that's why Arsenal's last - and what they insist will be their final - offer, is £75,000-a-week. If Walcott was an England regular at Manchester United, Manchester City or Chelsea then surely a forward player could double that.

Walcott is 23, has pace, dynamism and an ability to win games. Just look at the second half against Tottenham at the Emirates last season: Walcott won that game for Arsenal. He was also singled out time and again by Robin van Persie as being his main supply line.

He may sometimes divide fans but his team mates who play with him know his value. He's a crucial part of Arsenal's team. They miss his pace and ability to stretch opponents when he doesn't play, let alone an improving record in front of goal and on assists.

Walcott has a great affection for Arsenal. I don't think he wants to leave. He knows at Arsenal he is at a club which finishes regularly in the Champions League places and he plays most weeks. Will he get both of those guarantees at Liverpool or Manchester City? I doubt it.

But from what I've heard, Walcott has been taken aback by Arsenal's strong stance. Maybe he looked a little down on Saturday, the day after the talks. He was relegated to the bench at Stoke.

Suddenly, Arsenal are holding up Serge Gnabry as a player capable of being fast tracked into the first team if Walcott goes. I think it's all about posturing. Driving a deal.

They don't want to put themselves into a position whereby they give too much away to weaken their hand. That explains why Wenger was cautious rather than glowing last Friday.

But the big mystery and downfall in all of this is why on earth Arsenal left it so late before getting down to serious business with Walcott.

They made him an offer with just a week to go before the window shuts. Once that window is shut he's locked in to the final year of his contract with Arsenal facing the prospect of him leaving for nothing next summer.

Why on earth not negotiate earlier? It's wrong to say Walcott wanted to wait until the end of the season. If you let things drag, then that's the obvious time to hold them. But if Arsenal had initiated things last autumn, I'm sure it would have been sorted by now.

Instead, they let his contract run down, the Robin van Persie saga - a player he was close to - happened all around him and suddenly there were question marks over how this season would pan out.

So, how on earth can Arsenal expect for him to go from nothing to making up his mind in the space of less than a week? They are trying to force the issue and rightly so. But shouldn't they have tried to force the issue last autumn?

There can be no excuses with Wenger fobbing off questions with it takes both parties to agree line on contracts. Arsenal didn't push Walcott on the contract earlier. Maybe they didn't want to. But £75,000-a-week is a lot to offer if they don't really want him to stay.

Of course Arsenal want Walcott to stay. But it's clear they won't break the bank completely. So they're trying to drive a hard bargain. If they'd come up with this offer earlier then he'd have signed by now.

Instead, we are left with an ugly saga on top of van Persie and Alex Song's departure. That's the shame of it all.

Walcott likes Arsenal, I think he ultimately wants to stay and shouldn't be painted as the bad guy. I hope both sides see sense and tie up a deal before things get out of hand. He's a quality player who will excel in the coming years. And that should be with Arsenal.
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Thankfully;

Theo Walcott looks set to stay at Arsenal this summer after holding amicable talks with manager Arsene Wenger on Wednesday.
It is understood the 23-year-old gave verbal assurances over his short-term future but has yet to sign a new deal.
Arsenal's latest offer of a five-year £75,000-a-week contract was rejected by Walcott last Friday but the club are now convinced the player wants to stay.
Manchester City remain interested and could yet test Arsenal's resolve.
There is, however, a feeling that a breakthrough has been made with senior figures at Arsenal now resolved to allow Walcott to enter the final 12 months of his contract, despite the risk of losing him for nothing next summer.
The change of mood came after talks between player and manager at Arsenal's London Colney training ground, where Walcott left Wenger in no doubt about his commitment to the club.
Arsenal had previously been prepared to sell their winger if he did not agree to sign a new contract by Friday, however that position has now softened.
Further talks are planned in the weeks ahead, with both parties having made a commitment to work towards a resolution.

From the beeb
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Fallon said:
Just for the people who won't go back through the thread;



No I wasn't saying that, I was saying that Walcott isn't what we need and that as a goal threat, by the time Sterling has played that many games, he should have a similar tally. I've said that about 3 times, as clear as day, now. One of my posts even says, I don't think he should be starting every league game.

I'll make it simple; Let's not spend £12M and 75k a week on Walcott. Let's develop our own, young, talented Winger into the player Walcott should be, and save a shit load of cash. Then in a couple of years, we could have someone on a pittance by comparison, who has come though the ranks and knows the club, and is as effective/more effective than Walcott.

*Done*
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You said he'd score as many as the best wingers in the league. Simple and incorrect.
 
Outlaw said:
His last two. What happened when he was seventeen and eighteen aren't really relevant. As for consistency, it's not actually what you said. You said "He certainly doesn't "consistently put it on a plate" for anyone. If anything, his inability to do that is what makes him so frustrating", which is what I had a bit of an issue with.

Not all that likely to happen anyway, is it?
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I'm confused. You say I didn't refer to his consistency, and then quote me saying just that! Anyway, this is getting petty. I don't actually think we're that far off agreeing with each other.

Walcott from around Christmas last year is definitely a player that would interest me. The Walcott of the previous 5 years, including the season before last in which he was decent, but less than inspiring, is not a player I'd want here, and certainly not for the kind of fee and wages that have been reported.

My main issue (beyond the cost) is whether the penny dropped for him last year and he'll continue to improve, or whether he just had a purple patch, and will go back to being the frustrating player that he's been for the vast majority of his career. I'm not sure, you clearly are, and I felt you overstated that, which is what I had a bit of an issue with.

Let's move on, shall we?
 
Don't particularly want Walcott and not for £12m. That's about his full value, nevermind with just a year left
 
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