Rafa and Xabi
- Thread starter Hyena
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Rafa was flawed in a number of ways, but who isn't? A couple of reminders for Oncy and anyone else who's down on the guy:
1. He donated £96,000 to the HJC;
2. Istanbul.
1. He donated £96,000 to the HJC;
2. Istanbul.
1.Thats the equivalent of me donating £8.60
2.Agreed and acknowledged.
Good to see you JJ
Rafa delivered the unthinkable at the time. For that alone he’ll always be remembered fondly.
I think I'm different to most in that once things have happened, I'm not so bothered for going back and retreading old ground.
The Rafa period has been done to death and then some. It's just boring at this point.
But whilst we're here, I also found him to be incredibly frustrating. He was obviously working under more constraints than others but he was also very stubborn, made a lot of baffling decisions and ultimately was the agent of his own demise.
He'll always be revered for Istanbul and the first couple years when he was putting together that Gerrard, Torres, Alonso team felt like we were genuinely onto something. Shame it all came to nothing.
The Rafa period has been done to death and then some. It's just boring at this point.
But whilst we're here, I also found him to be incredibly frustrating. He was obviously working under more constraints than others but he was also very stubborn, made a lot of baffling decisions and ultimately was the agent of his own demise.
He'll always be revered for Istanbul and the first couple years when he was putting together that Gerrard, Torres, Alonso team felt like we were genuinely onto something. Shame it all came to nothing.
Likewise, mein Herr.
In terms of Rodgers, no way I can have him near Rafa. I don't know if anyone has been checking out what our former analytical director Ian Graham has been saying about Rodgers, but it doesn't paint him in a good light. We all knew there were tensions in the relationship between Rodgers and the spreadsheet boys, but the levels of disfunction beggar belief. They had to have trade-offs with him in order to bring in players that the analytics told them would be brilliant. Bobby was one of the highest profile cases of course, who Rodgers only agreed to us buying if he could have Benteke. It was chaos. Like indulging a spoilt brat.
Yeah I tried telling everyone that at the time cos it seemed obvious to me.
As if the same fuckwit who wanted to sign Clint Dempsey and Benteke would also have gone for Firmino and Emre Can etc.
The implicit trading off was blatant.
Anyone who doubts it has only to look at Brodgers' mishandling of Bobby, whom (if he used him at all) he stuck out wide. IMO we played too well in that one near-miss season for him to be regarded as an out-and-out failure, but Rafa at his best was the better manager by a street.
Ahhh the days of endless discussions of our midfield maestro Joe Allen, the Welsh Xavi.
How far we’ve come eh.
How far we’ve come eh.
He’s a rolls Royce of a player. Massively expensive for what you actually got. An impractical buy.
Rodgers is lucky the "transfer committee" saved him from disaster, that's for sure. No way we'd have made that title challenge if we'd signed Dempsey instead of Sturridge and Tom Ince instead of Coutinho (fucking LOL - what a fucking weapon).
Buuuuut, I do still think he doesn't really get the credit he deserves for that season. I still think it's probably the most enjoyable season I've ever experienced. It was just sheer joy watching that team. The title year wasn't fun in the same way: we were relentless but almost too controlled. And we were so far ahead by Xmas that it wasn't really exciting after that. Plus covid fucked us.
That season could only be summed up in one word. Suarez. ‘Course you had your other world class players but Suarez 13/14 was just unplayable.
Still the best striker/forward in a red shirt for me.
Still the best striker/forward in a red shirt for me.
Obviously fat Sam..
I think that's a fair analysis, I know during that 2012-2015 FSG were doing their data analysis to see who could work off the tight budgets l. Amongst Brenden and Klopp you had managers like Simeone, Emery, Pochettino and Tuchel coming through, even a few older heads in Bielsa and Gasperini - we definitely got the pick of the bunch with Klopp...it is nice to see the back of wankers like Alan P and Far Sam..
That first 20 minutes against Arsenal. Might have been the best I have seen us play. Should have been 8-0 up. Arsenal has no clue what hit them.
As @peterhague said - Dempsey instead of Sturridge and Tom Ince instead of Coutinho. I mean, it shows how bad a judge of player he was. And it also shows how thin the margins of success can be. Coutinho's sale brought in VVD and Allison Becker, the foundations of our success. Who knew saying no to Tom Ince would bring us the league.
Benitez signed Coutinho didn’t he?
EDIT : Nope, signed on his recommendation apparently
EDIT : Nope, signed on his recommendation apparently
Nope - Rodgers.
Benitez had him at Inter when Coutinho first arrived, but the signing had been done a few years earlier and he’d stayed on loan in Brazil.
Benitez would have been at Chelsea when Coutinho signed for us.
The data analytics bloke in the other thread said Rodgers wanted Tom Ince instead.
Yeah I refuse to give Rodgers any credit for Coutinho. Tom Ince ffs, just unforgivable.
No that's not the point. Standard parlance eg Hyypia was signed by Houllier is fine in most cases, just not with Rodgers where he really deserves no credit at all because his choices were apparently always so terrible, and when we did make good signings it was in spite of him.
Agent Rafa.
I’m happy with whatever terminology you want to use to make whatever point about Rodgers you want to make.
I wish I’d just said “no, Benitez didn’t sign Coutinho for Liverpool” and left it at that.
So do I.
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