[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48666.msg1482888#msg1482888 date=1329278972]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48666.msg1482883#msg1482883 date=1329273906]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48666.msg1482517#msg1482517 date=1329214335]
How Wiz?
[/quote]
Ryan, I know you came to have a great deal of affection and respect for Rafa so this can't really end well.
That said, Kenny's done it before in this league; knows Liverpool better than anyone else on the planet right now; is determined to have us playing football in a manner that has more chance of success in this league. I know that last one is partially just my opinion but it's backed up by the football played by the champions in most of the last 20 years. Chelsea would be the main exception to that rule for me and they were/are an exception to a lot of rules.
[/quote]
I'm able to judge Rafa impartially, but that's a different story.
As for each of your points above, well nothing he's done with us in over 12 months backs that up. He's bought badly, we've not moved forwards, and he has us playing a brand of football that shows no evidence to me of being orchestrated. I just don't understand what style he's going with. We look disjointed going forward, we're far too reliant on one or two better players, we're tactically deficient when it comes to breaking teams down, we look unbalanced across midfield for the most part, and I just don't see anything in what he's done to give me hope for change.
[/quote]
Without being pedantic my first point that Kenny's done it before in this league doesn't require any further evidence - it's a pretty certain historical fact.
My second point is clearly a subjective one and nobody is going to be categorically proven correct one way or the other. That said I feel quite comfortable in the statement that Kenny knows this football club better than anyone else; from time spent at the club to the various relationships he has with people at all levels of the club.
The third point I could understand you disputing if it were based on the last 6 months; but you've specifically made it 12 months. The football we played in his first 6 months in charge was a refreshing return to the romantic football we played at our peak. Not that it was executed to the same degree of ruthlesness but that's another discussion. The pass and move seemed to have been forgotten for nearly a decade; the movement into space seemed foreign to the club yet all this was back in under a month of Kenny being in charge. For large parts of this season it's an ethos that's gone missing again which could justifiably attract criticism.
There were plenty of very good and respected football judges who thought Carroll was an outstanding player; 35m was over the top but he was a superstar in the making. He didn't fit the style that Kenny had us playing last season and barely featured but the logic was pretty obvious. Henderson and Adam both have arguments in their favour - Jordan particularly has something to offer IMO. Suarez may polarise the support somewhat but on the field he's an excellent footballer. Enrique isn't as good as some have declared IMO but he's still been a successful signing. All that tells me that Downing has been the poor signing because he was never going to provide what we wanted and at 20m he was exhorbitant if we're being kind.
All this is by way of admitting that our play this season has not been good largely speaking; in fact it's often been dire but we saw last season the football Kenny wants us playing and I believe that's still his intention despite the failings of several signings.
It perhaps wasn't particularly fair for Rafa to be bought into the discussion; however, he walked in from Spain and was given unequivocal support by the fans for years despite some of the most dire splutterings of football many of us had seen. He had one incredible season - his first- and one very good season - his second last yet many on here still sound more like his personal religous missionaries than mere groupies. Kenny is a legend of the club; done it all as a player for us; done it for us as a manager; lives and breathes the club in a way few others ever will. Despite this he's had fans gunning for him before he had 12 months at the helm. I find the contrast between the two to be naive and ignorant in the extreme. One should have been given respect and received it in spades while the other has earned the respect and isn't receiving it.
As for Farky's post - that's an excellent post mate with the exception that I do think Enrique, Henderson and Suarez are pretty good footballers while Adam was bought to do a job and has, on many occasions, done the job. Carroll, for anyone who watched Newcastle, is much better than what he's showed us while Downing...... well Downing I despair with. Your points on the managers are, of course, excellent.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48666.msg1482883#msg1482883 date=1329273906]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48666.msg1482517#msg1482517 date=1329214335]
How Wiz?
[/quote]
Ryan, I know you came to have a great deal of affection and respect for Rafa so this can't really end well.
That said, Kenny's done it before in this league; knows Liverpool better than anyone else on the planet right now; is determined to have us playing football in a manner that has more chance of success in this league. I know that last one is partially just my opinion but it's backed up by the football played by the champions in most of the last 20 years. Chelsea would be the main exception to that rule for me and they were/are an exception to a lot of rules.
[/quote]
I'm able to judge Rafa impartially, but that's a different story.
As for each of your points above, well nothing he's done with us in over 12 months backs that up. He's bought badly, we've not moved forwards, and he has us playing a brand of football that shows no evidence to me of being orchestrated. I just don't understand what style he's going with. We look disjointed going forward, we're far too reliant on one or two better players, we're tactically deficient when it comes to breaking teams down, we look unbalanced across midfield for the most part, and I just don't see anything in what he's done to give me hope for change.
[/quote]
Without being pedantic my first point that Kenny's done it before in this league doesn't require any further evidence - it's a pretty certain historical fact.
My second point is clearly a subjective one and nobody is going to be categorically proven correct one way or the other. That said I feel quite comfortable in the statement that Kenny knows this football club better than anyone else; from time spent at the club to the various relationships he has with people at all levels of the club.
The third point I could understand you disputing if it were based on the last 6 months; but you've specifically made it 12 months. The football we played in his first 6 months in charge was a refreshing return to the romantic football we played at our peak. Not that it was executed to the same degree of ruthlesness but that's another discussion. The pass and move seemed to have been forgotten for nearly a decade; the movement into space seemed foreign to the club yet all this was back in under a month of Kenny being in charge. For large parts of this season it's an ethos that's gone missing again which could justifiably attract criticism.
There were plenty of very good and respected football judges who thought Carroll was an outstanding player; 35m was over the top but he was a superstar in the making. He didn't fit the style that Kenny had us playing last season and barely featured but the logic was pretty obvious. Henderson and Adam both have arguments in their favour - Jordan particularly has something to offer IMO. Suarez may polarise the support somewhat but on the field he's an excellent footballer. Enrique isn't as good as some have declared IMO but he's still been a successful signing. All that tells me that Downing has been the poor signing because he was never going to provide what we wanted and at 20m he was exhorbitant if we're being kind.
All this is by way of admitting that our play this season has not been good largely speaking; in fact it's often been dire but we saw last season the football Kenny wants us playing and I believe that's still his intention despite the failings of several signings.
It perhaps wasn't particularly fair for Rafa to be bought into the discussion; however, he walked in from Spain and was given unequivocal support by the fans for years despite some of the most dire splutterings of football many of us had seen. He had one incredible season - his first- and one very good season - his second last yet many on here still sound more like his personal religous missionaries than mere groupies. Kenny is a legend of the club; done it all as a player for us; done it for us as a manager; lives and breathes the club in a way few others ever will. Despite this he's had fans gunning for him before he had 12 months at the helm. I find the contrast between the two to be naive and ignorant in the extreme. One should have been given respect and received it in spades while the other has earned the respect and isn't receiving it.
As for Farky's post - that's an excellent post mate with the exception that I do think Enrique, Henderson and Suarez are pretty good footballers while Adam was bought to do a job and has, on many occasions, done the job. Carroll, for anyone who watched Newcastle, is much better than what he's showed us while Downing...... well Downing I despair with. Your points on the managers are, of course, excellent.
