Tbf I'm not unhappy we bought him. I think he's a good player and will be a good signing.
But like you say, I argue cos I'm valid, like.
Joe Sideways
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Tbf I'm not unhappy we bought him. I think he's a good player and will be a good signing.
But like you say, I argue cos I'm valid, like.
*plop plop plop*
Mate the order matters if the second signing is completely reliant on a not altogether certain event like being able to con someone out of £15m for Mandy Carroll.
Regardless of the Allen transfer and timing of it, the money spent on Borini and Assaidi should have gone towards 1 very good striker.
For 14 mill there were loads of very good deals we could have done.
Assaidi is so far pointless and Borini is so far a talented lad that might come good, and thats not what we needed at the time.
For 14 mill there were loads of very good deals we could have done.
Assaidi is so far pointless and Borini is so far a talented lad that might come good, and thats not what we needed at the time.
But that's the point. The event WAS "certain". Or at least that's how it seems. We got fucked over at the last minute.
What?? You kidding me?
I think by that point it was perfectly clear we might struggle to sell Carroll for any kind of decent fee.
Borini was bought in early July. Another striker couldnt be bought until Carroll was moves on.
Allen was signed with 3 weeks to go of the transfer window.
The Hague makes some very good points, but as is obvs disreagraded by Mr Plop Plop, the timing of every transfer comes down to each deal.
We had to shift some players to make room in the squad and we had to move for some players when the chance appeared.
In hindsight everything is easier, and we seem to have learned our lesson in this window.
Which is the most important thing.
Allen was signed with 3 weeks to go of the transfer window.
The Hague makes some very good points, but as is obvs disreagraded by Mr Plop Plop, the timing of every transfer comes down to each deal.
We had to shift some players to make room in the squad and we had to move for some players when the chance appeared.
In hindsight everything is easier, and we seem to have learned our lesson in this window.
Which is the most important thing.
Spurs were, he wanted to come to us.
Obviously our need for a striker was great. But considering how he tried to send shelvey out on loan, did send spearing on loan and tried to sell henderson in the summer says to me that out of all those the only ones he rated were gerrard(who gets injured every season) and lucas(who wasn't even fit). Suso was one for the future so couldn't rely on him really. So i can see why he rightly or wrongly wanted allen quickly.
We needed another striker even if Carroll had stayed. We'd lost Bellamy and Kuyt.
I hate that sort of thinking though. I remember people were criticising the Johnson singing massively for a similar reason, but now, years on, it's proven to be a sound investment. As a club you have to sign top players when they become available and when they want to come, regardless of whether or not there's a pressing 'need'. Rodgers clearly believes Allen is good is enough to highlight this point further, and everything I saw of him at Swansea had led me to think he's correct in doing so.
We'll be extremely grateful to have him in a few years.
I'm not saying we won't, in the long term it 'might' prove invaluable, but the problem is, in the short team we had different priorities. You're forgetting that when we bought Johnson to upgrade or whatever from Arbeloa, we did it from a position of strength. In the Summer we had one decent striker and fuck all outwide more or less.
I agree with the general logic though that you have to snap these players up when they're available, as we've been bitten by many a time with the likes of Walcott when he was initially available at Southampton. Hindsight is wonderful though.
Are we going to have this discussion after every single game, sub appearance, or pass/shot/miss? Can we for once not just allow someone some time?
There is no doubt in my mind that this kid will be top class for us for years. This gnashing of teeth after every fucking game is pathetic.
There is no doubt in my mind that this kid will be top class for us for years. This gnashing of teeth after every fucking game is pathetic.
Sorry mate I hadn't seen your posts.
Ferguson at United is great at this. He gives players time and years, not games and months. Sheringham, Pallister, Keane, Carrick, Cole, etc - all signed for big big money from premier league sides and took time to adapt.
Adaptation doesn't just apply to foreigners folks, it applies to everyone.
We've a quality quality footballer on our hands, let him fucking breathe.
Ferguson at United is great at this. He gives players time and years, not games and months. Sheringham, Pallister, Keane, Carrick, Cole, etc - all signed for big big money from premier league sides and took time to adapt.
Adaptation doesn't just apply to foreigners folks, it applies to everyone.
We've a quality quality footballer on our hands, let him fucking breathe.
A few people are slagging him off, most people are just saying it's taking him time and so far he hasn't really shown what we were expecting, I don't think that's unfair, nor do I expect miracles from the off. It's amazing though that when posters are fans of players, they're willing to give them all the time in the World to come good, whereas a player they're not particularly a fan of gets written off from the off, but I think we're probably all guilty of that to a degree.
Anyway, I do think we've got two young talents who, as I said, may well develop into your typical United esque players who know the game and will slot in seamlessly to keep the football going, keep us ticking over and be not just efficient, but fulcrums of our engine room, but there's a long way to go with both Hendo and Allen, they need patience, they need indulgence but if they're being gash and not proving to live up to their respective £15m price tags over a sufficient amount of time, or if they're in a poor run of form then they'll rightly get criticised, just like every other player we've got. It's not like anyone is immune to it, Gerrard's had it this season after carrying us for years. You just have to cut through the bullshit though to find the posters who are calling a spade a spade and showing some perspective about it, and the ones who are (usually characteristically) being fickle cunts.
I don't think Pete falls into that category, nor do I expect you think he does either, he's just rightly expressing some concerns. Most people have done the same throughout this thread. And that kind of goes back full circle to the Sahin thread, there's some ridiculous opinions in there too.
Anyway, I do think we've got two young talents who, as I said, may well develop into your typical United esque players who know the game and will slot in seamlessly to keep the football going, keep us ticking over and be not just efficient, but fulcrums of our engine room, but there's a long way to go with both Hendo and Allen, they need patience, they need indulgence but if they're being gash and not proving to live up to their respective £15m price tags over a sufficient amount of time, or if they're in a poor run of form then they'll rightly get criticised, just like every other player we've got. It's not like anyone is immune to it, Gerrard's had it this season after carrying us for years. You just have to cut through the bullshit though to find the posters who are calling a spade a spade and showing some perspective about it, and the ones who are (usually characteristically) being fickle cunts.
I don't think Pete falls into that category, nor do I expect you think he does either, he's just rightly expressing some concerns. Most people have done the same throughout this thread. And that kind of goes back full circle to the Sahin thread, there's some ridiculous opinions in there too.
There's difference between signing quality players and signing players you hope are quality.
Allen was clearly a quality player. I had my doubts at the beginning but when I saw him play for Brittain in the Olympics I was sold.
However there's tons of player we've bought these past few years that have been risks, big money risks.
Cole hadn't played well for Chelsea for like 2-3 years, but we still thought he'd suddenly become this top class player.
I have no problem with us doing risky business but it has to be signings like Coates, Assaidi, Enrique, Adam etc, deal where we could possibly recoup more than 60% of what we paid for them.
Allen was clearly a quality player. I had my doubts at the beginning but when I saw him play for Brittain in the Olympics I was sold.
However there's tons of player we've bought these past few years that have been risks, big money risks.
Cole hadn't played well for Chelsea for like 2-3 years, but we still thought he'd suddenly become this top class player.
I have no problem with us doing risky business but it has to be signings like Coates, Assaidi, Enrique, Adam etc, deal where we could possibly recoup more than 60% of what we paid for them.
Cole hadn't gone off the boil at Chelsea that much, if at all. He played well when he got his chances (we lost a couple of games against them largely thanks to him) and did well for England too. Both here and in the media, some people were saying the exact same things about him that we've been hearing before signing Sturridge ("just needs a proper chance", "has done well when he's been given a go" etc). Fingers crossed we get a different outcome this time.
Haha... Fucking hell man!!
Allen will be a cracking player for us. I really rate him and will allow him the time he deserves to excel.
Yeah we could have used the money to buy a striker but Joe was available and Rogers wanted him. A player that BR probably wants to play in our midfield for the next decade. Phil Jones became available a few seasons back and United signed him. Fergie probably didn't want to sign him at the time as he had Ferdinand, Vidic, Evans, Smalling etc but he had to act with other clubs sniffing around. A lot of united fans wanted the money to be put towards a more pressing issue like a midfielder but I doubt they will complain watching Jones star for them over the next decade.
Let's just all relax and get behind Joe Allen and give him time. I hope he is a mainstay in our team for the next decade.
EAT THAT GENE HUGHES YOU AGENDA LOVING ROGUE.
Yeah we could have used the money to buy a striker but Joe was available and Rogers wanted him. A player that BR probably wants to play in our midfield for the next decade. Phil Jones became available a few seasons back and United signed him. Fergie probably didn't want to sign him at the time as he had Ferdinand, Vidic, Evans, Smalling etc but he had to act with other clubs sniffing around. A lot of united fans wanted the money to be put towards a more pressing issue like a midfielder but I doubt they will complain watching Jones star for them over the next decade.
Let's just all relax and get behind Joe Allen and give him time. I hope he is a mainstay in our team for the next decade.
EAT THAT GENE HUGHES YOU AGENDA LOVING ROGUE.
I completely agree with you ILD, but I can never forgive Joe Allen for stamping on Tinkerbell's chest.
Seriously tough, I hope he can be a useful squad player for the next decade. All I'm saying is that I don't think, right now, that he's as good as some of the people on here are claiming. He has potential to mature into a good player because he looks up, seems prepared to make first time passes, keeps the ball moving, and has a good first touch. But at present he doesn't look to have the personality or character to run a midfield at a top club, looks like he's going to be monstered at will by any opponent over 8 stone who could be bothered, and seems to have a "favored midfield position" (and there was me thinking midfield WAS a position) and struggle unless he's playing exactly where he wants and in a system that suits.
Added to all that, in all likelihood Rodgers will only be around for a short while, so the new coach will probably be less indulgent of Rodger's star pupil and certainly employ a system that won't suit Allen's rather particular talents.
All of this makes me think that Allen will be with us for about 3 years, playing a lot less after Rodger's is moved on, and eventually be moved on himself with little fanfare to Fulham or Wigan for about 3 million, where he'll be very good.
That's just what I think will happen, sorry.
Of course, I hope he will turn into a fantastic little playmaker, grow into the club and be able to deal with the expectations of wankers like me. That he'll be the envy of every club in Europe but stay with us for a decade, captaining us to lots of trophies and giving a whole generation of very tiny middle-class boys real hope that they can make it in English football.
Seriously tough, I hope he can be a useful squad player for the next decade. All I'm saying is that I don't think, right now, that he's as good as some of the people on here are claiming. He has potential to mature into a good player because he looks up, seems prepared to make first time passes, keeps the ball moving, and has a good first touch. But at present he doesn't look to have the personality or character to run a midfield at a top club, looks like he's going to be monstered at will by any opponent over 8 stone who could be bothered, and seems to have a "favored midfield position" (and there was me thinking midfield WAS a position) and struggle unless he's playing exactly where he wants and in a system that suits.
Added to all that, in all likelihood Rodgers will only be around for a short while, so the new coach will probably be less indulgent of Rodger's star pupil and certainly employ a system that won't suit Allen's rather particular talents.
All of this makes me think that Allen will be with us for about 3 years, playing a lot less after Rodger's is moved on, and eventually be moved on himself with little fanfare to Fulham or Wigan for about 3 million, where he'll be very good.
That's just what I think will happen, sorry.
Of course, I hope he will turn into a fantastic little playmaker, grow into the club and be able to deal with the expectations of wankers like me. That he'll be the envy of every club in Europe but stay with us for a decade, captaining us to lots of trophies and giving a whole generation of very tiny middle-class boys real hope that they can make it in English football.
I dont see the hype at all.
Ive seen nothing. Not one single thing to suggest he is a top teir player.
The first time I saw him i thought he looked average. Nothing has changed. He does very little that Henderson, Lucas or Shelvey do. In fact nothing that I can think of.
He reminds me of Liam Miller who United signed once. Then they realised he was bang average and fucked him off. We'll probably keep Allen around for years.
Hopefully im wrong and hes amazing. Wouldnt be the first time (Lucas, Kuyt etc) but id like to see something from this 20lb weakling to suggest he can up his game.
Ive seen nothing. Not one single thing to suggest he is a top teir player.
The first time I saw him i thought he looked average. Nothing has changed. He does very little that Henderson, Lucas or Shelvey do. In fact nothing that I can think of.
He reminds me of Liam Miller who United signed once. Then they realised he was bang average and fucked him off. We'll probably keep Allen around for years.
Hopefully im wrong and hes amazing. Wouldnt be the first time (Lucas, Kuyt etc) but id like to see something from this 20lb weakling to suggest he can up his game.
Gene was the creator of 2 girls and a cup
I'm yet to make my mind up. Some have said they see him as an attacking midfielder who plays between the lines in a Nasri type role which I'm not sure about, and I don't believe he played that way for Swansea either. Nevertheless, I do think he looks like an intelligent player who manages to make difficult jobs look deceptively easy. He was our best player for the opening series of games, and I'm confident he'll turn out to be a top player for us. Probably the type of player who will never get supporters hugely excited and yet will be one of the first names on the team-sheet for the manager.
I think he had a fantastic game against City. Took control of midfield, demanded the ball and distributed it fast Wisth smooth passing.. since then her faded away, allways chose the safe solution and his accuracy dropped significantly. So there is a player insignificance there, but i will not be carried away by 25 good minutes against å tired Sunderland.
I've tried to stay out of this thread because some of the opinions have been so moronic IMO that I couldn't be bothered debating them.
Quite simply the crux of the problem can be summed up by this analogy.....................
Every major championship foriegn teams such as Spain, Italy, Brazil, Portugal, Argentina (sometimes) etc turn up and look very cohesive, playing passing football and most, if not all, of the players possess suitable skills and savvy to play top-level football.
England turn up with players like Barry, Terry Fenwick, Milner, Steve Hodge, Carlton Palmer, Shelvey, Ashley Young, Downing etc and can't figure out why they always go home early.
Joe Allen would look excellent in Spain's national team with players such as Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas etc around him but by the same token Iniesta would look half the player he is if he was in the England team with Downing, Henderson and Ashley Young around him because he'd be on an entirely different wavelength.
The thing is we have some players who IMO are intuitive enough to bring the best out of Allen but as yet we haven't been adventurous enough to play something like;
................................................Gerrard......................................
...............Suso.....................Allen..................Sterling....................
..........................Suarez..................Sturridge*.............................
*Obviously I'm aware as to why we haven't tried the line up with Sturridge in it yet.
In an ideal world we would have a better DM than Lucas and I wouldn't have to pick Gerrard as the DM but in this system he's the best we have for the role.
Allen may or may not become a great player for LFC but I'm 100% convinced he'll be a great player for someone and if we persist with lining him up with the likes of Shelvey, Henderson, Lucas etc we'll never see the best of him in a red shirt.
Right, I'm off back to the sanctuary of my betting forum.
Quite simply the crux of the problem can be summed up by this analogy.....................
Every major championship foriegn teams such as Spain, Italy, Brazil, Portugal, Argentina (sometimes) etc turn up and look very cohesive, playing passing football and most, if not all, of the players possess suitable skills and savvy to play top-level football.
England turn up with players like Barry, Terry Fenwick, Milner, Steve Hodge, Carlton Palmer, Shelvey, Ashley Young, Downing etc and can't figure out why they always go home early.
Joe Allen would look excellent in Spain's national team with players such as Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas etc around him but by the same token Iniesta would look half the player he is if he was in the England team with Downing, Henderson and Ashley Young around him because he'd be on an entirely different wavelength.
The thing is we have some players who IMO are intuitive enough to bring the best out of Allen but as yet we haven't been adventurous enough to play something like;
................................................Gerrard......................................
...............Suso.....................Allen..................Sterling....................
..........................Suarez..................Sturridge*.............................
*Obviously I'm aware as to why we haven't tried the line up with Sturridge in it yet.
In an ideal world we would have a better DM than Lucas and I wouldn't have to pick Gerrard as the DM but in this system he's the best we have for the role.
Allen may or may not become a great player for LFC but I'm 100% convinced he'll be a great player for someone and if we persist with lining him up with the likes of Shelvey, Henderson, Lucas etc we'll never see the best of him in a red shirt.
Right, I'm off back to the sanctuary of my betting forum.
Pesam, that's a fine post in that you have presented a counter factual theory that can never really be proven.
Well it can be proven to a certain extent Gene, if we pick Allen, Suso, Sterling and Gerrard in midfield and drop Shelvey, Lucas, Henderson and Downing I will confidently predict Allen would have a stormer. Another thing that would help Allen would be if Sturridge AND Suarez both played; everytime he gets the ball and looks up his options tend to be Suarez (who's usually tightly marked) or a square ball which gets us nowhere other than retaining possession. With the choice of 2 "out" balls i.e. Suarez or Sturridge I'll confidently predict Allen would become a lot more effective.
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