Joe Sideways

[Red_Water]

I think he had a fantastic game against City. Took control of midfield, demanded the ball and distributed it fast Wisth smooth passing.. since then her faded away, allways chose the safe solution and his accuracy dropped significantly. So there is a player insignificance there, but i will not be carried away by 25 good minutes against å tired Sunderland.

Agree. The first 6-10 games of the season he was excellent and was in fact MoM for 3-4 of those games. His form has dipped but he started very well indeed. No reason he can't repeat that once we have a settled midfield and Lucas back on form.
I'd also like to see him play further forward as he did at Swansea.

 

[gene hughes]

Well it can be proven to a certain extent Gene, if we pick Allen, Suso, Sterling and Gerrard in midfield and drop Shelvey, Lucas, Henderson and Downing I will confidently predict Allen would have a stormer. Another thing that would help Allen would be if Sturridge AND Suarez both played; everytime he gets the ball and looks up his options tend to be Suarez (who's usually tightly marked) or a square ball which gets us nowhere other than retaining possession. With the choice of 2 "out" balls i.e. Suarez or Sturridge I'll confidently predict Allen would become a lot more effective.

Sorry Pesam, I appreciate that you like him but what you're saying is that the team has to be built around him. In a team with lots of talented players you are saying that we have to play 10 other players who suit Allen's style. The fuss over him reminds me more of the weird Riera love-in every day. Both players who can look good when surrounded by great team mates and in a team that suits their style. What we need from someone like Allen is for him to be making everyone else look better, not relying on everyone else to make him look good.

 

[Red_Water]

What more proof does anyone need?

1. Suarez.......................5 MOM........3 2nd.......2 3rd...........36
2. Sterling......................3 MOM.......3 2nd........1 3rd...........25
3. Allen..........................3 MOM.......1 2nd........4 3rd...........22

 

[Judge Jules]

Gene: surely all teams are a patchwork of such accommodations. We have to pick a team which makes the best overall use of the players in our squad. Arranging things to suit Allen may well be the best way to do that, because of the kind of player he is.

 

[nealmac]

Does anyone else find it funny that Joe Allen is currently sitting in 3rd place in the MOTM thread?

 

[nealmac]

Ha! Just noticed Red Water's post.

 

[mark1975]

Does anyone else find it funny that Joe Allen is currently sitting in 3rd place in the MOTM thread?

Just shows how shite we are. There's probably been countless times where people have wanted to give it Suarez but chose not to because he gets it all the time.

 

[Pesam]

Sorry Pesam, I appreciate that you like him but what you're saying is that the team has to be built around him. In a team with lots of talented players you are saying that we have to play 10 other players who suit Allen's style. The fuss over him reminds me more of the weird Riera love-in every day. Both players who can look good when surrounded by great team mates and in a team that suits their style. What we need from someone like Allen is for him to be making everyone else look better, not relying on everyone else to make him look good.

To be honest Gene when we bought Allen I thought it was part of a plan in which we evolve into a pass-and-move type of team like we were in the 70's and 80's and like Swansea were under Rodgers. I liked the idea because we already had some suitable players for this system e.g. Gerrard, Suarez, Johnson, Agger etc and I thought that Rodgers would bring in more.

I agree we should not build the team around Allen but now that he has brought Sterling and Suso through from the reserves we are only a couple of players short of being able to play pass-and-move without having to rely on Shelvey, Henderson, Downing and Lucas.

Allen's game has 2 major plus points; his ability to find space and his ability to pass sublimely (short and long passes), I don't think these abilities are ever going to "make others look better" but we'll only ever see the benefits of his game if others are able to read his passes or look for suitable space for Allen to find them.

We are still a work in progress and I'm hoping that Rodgers realises that he needs midfield reinforcements of a similar quality before we see Allen at his best.

 

[nealmac]

Just shows how shite we are. There's probably been countless times where people have wanted to give it Suarez but chose not to because he gets it all the time.

I disagree. Allen got all those votes in his earlier games, and to be honest, I think he deserved them. Not only that, but he's sitting above Johnson and Enrique, two guys who have been top notch for us this season.

Although I agree we're shite.

 

[mark1975]

I disagree. Allen got all those votes in his earlier games, and to be honest, I think he deserved them. Not only that, but he's sitting above Johnson and Enrique, two guys who have been top notch for us this season.

Although I agree we're shite.

He did deserve them. But let's put it this way, has he been our third best player this season? Better than Johnson or Enrique? Significantly better than anyone else beyond that?

I do rate him btw, but I don't buy all this building the team around him, if he's good enough he'll step up to the plate. Though in fairness it'd be nice to see him get an extended run in his favoured role.

 

[Judge Jules]

See, I don't think we *are* sh!te. I think we're *playing* sh!te too often, but when we're on song we play some really nice stuff.

 

[nealmac]

He did deserve them. But let's put it this way, has he been our third best player this season? Better than Johnson or Enrique? Significantly better than anyone else beyond that?

I do rate him btw, but I don't buy all this building the team around him, if he's good enough he'll step up to the plate. Though in fairness it'd be nice to see him get an extended run in his favoured role.

Indeed. I don't buy it either. He either fits in or he doesn't. One minute we should be building the team around Gerrard, then Suarez, now it's Sturridge.......And now Allen? Fuck that. And yes, he does need to be given a freer role now that Lucas is back.

 

[nealmac]

See, I don't think we *are* sh!te. I think we're *playing* sh!te too often, but when we're on song we play some really nice stuff.

That's what I meant 😉

 

[gene hughes]

I disagree. Allen got all those votes in his earlier games, and to be honest, I think he deserved them. Not only that, but he's sitting above Johnson and Enrique, two guys who have been top notch for us this season.

Although I agree we're shite.

I disagree Neal, Allen's form has declined for sure, but he didn't deserve those awards either. It's the honeymoon period. A lot of posters don't watch football and only watch us. When we sign someone who seems to be even semi-intelligent and technically competent everyone is amazed, astounded at this superb player, then after a few months people get bored and start noticing all the shit he does wrong and laying into him. You only have to look at the Mansfield thread to see how many people on here had obviously never really watched Sturridge before.

 

[mark1975]

See, I don't think we *are* sh!te. I think we're *playing* sh!te too often, but when we're on song we play some really nice stuff.

I agree, I'm just being a cunt. But I don't think we've had many top performers this season and that's a big part of the issue which Joe is currently part of.

 

[Red_Water]

He did deserve them. But let's put it this way, has he been our third best player this season? Better than Johnson or Enrique? Significantly better than anyone else beyond that?

I do rate him btw, but I don't buy all this building the team around him, if he's good enough he'll step up to the plate. Though in fairness it'd be nice to see him get an extended run in his favoured role.

No just third best player in the first 8-9 games. Thereafter he's been mostly shit.

 

[gene hughes]

To be honest Gene when we bought Allen I thought it was part of a plan in which we evolve into a pass-and-move type of team like we were in the 70's and 80's and like Swansea were under Rodgers. I liked the idea because we already had some suitable players for this system e.g. Gerrard, Suarez, Johnson, Agger etc and I thought that Rodgers would bring in more.

I agree we should not build the team around Allen but now that he has brought Sterling and Suso through from the reserves we are only a couple of players short of being able to play pass-and-move without having to rely on Shelvey, Henderson, Downing and Lucas.

Allen's game has 2 major plus points; his ability to find space and his ability to pass sublimely (short and long passes), I don't think these abilities are ever going to "make others look better" but we'll only ever see the benefits of his game if others are able to read his passes or look for suitable space for Allen to find them.

We are still a work in progress and I'm hoping that Rodgers realises that he needs midfield reinforcements of a similar quality before we see Allen at his best.

Fair enough Pesam, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[nealmac]

I disagree Neal, Allen's form has declined for sure, but he didn't deserve those awards either. It's the honeymoon period. A lot of posters don't watch football and only watch us. When we sign someone who seems to be even semi-intelligent and technically competent everyone is amazed, astounded at this superb player, then after a few months people get bored and start noticing all the shit he does wrong and laying into him. You only have to look at the Mansfield thread to see how many people on here had obviously never really watched Sturridge before.

Fair point Gene. That certainly does happen. Although in Allen's case, I genuinely thought he played some really nice, simple, yet effective football.

He's been shit as of late, I won't disagree there.

 

[Oncy]

He was our third best player in the first 8 games of the season that had us lose 4 and sit 4th from bottom.
GO JOE!!!

 

[Insignificance]

I've tried to stay out of this thread because some of the opinions have been so moronic IMO that I couldn't be bothered debating them.

Quite simply the crux of the problem can be summed up by this analogy.....................

Every major championship foriegn teams such as Spain, Italy, Brazil, Portugal, Argentina (sometimes) etc turn up and look very cohesive, playing passing football and most, if not all, of the players possess suitable skills and savvy to play top-level football.

England turn up with players like Barry, Terry Fenwick, Milner, Steve Hodge, Carlton Palmer, Shelvey, Ashley Young, Downing etc and can't figure out why they always go home early.

Joe Allen would look excellent in Spain's national team with players such as Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas etc around him but by the same token Iniesta would look half the player he is if he was in the England team with Downing, Henderson and Ashley Young around him because he'd be on an entirely different wavelength.

The thing is we have some players who IMO are intuitive enough to bring the best out of Allen but as yet we haven't been adventurous enough to play something like;

................................................Gerrard......................................
...............Suso.....................Allen..................Sterling....................
..........................Suarez..................Sturridge*.............................

*Obviously I'm aware as to why we haven't tried the line up with Sturridge in it yet.

In an ideal world we would have a better DM than Lucas and I wouldn't have to pick Gerrard as the DM but in this system he's the best we have for the role.

Allen may or may not become a great player for LFC but I'm 100% convinced he'll be a great player for someone and if we persist with lining him up with the likes of Shelvey, Henderson, Lucas etc we'll never see the best of him in a red shirt.

Right, I'm off back to the sanctuary of my betting forum.

I am not sure if that midifeld would make it in Portugal even. They wheigh in averag 45 kilos, and besides Sterling none of them is very fast. In the Premier league you ask to be spanked heavily, as there is absolutely no steel there.

 

[Silver Sean]

Am I the only one who can't see what all the fuss is about Suso? He is skillful, talented and techical for sure, but what does he actually do? He is no goal threat, doesn't seem to create much and seems very lightweight when we are up against it. I hope I'm wrong. Maybr it's because he looks like a bloke who nicked my girlfriend when I was a youngster. Little cunt.

 

[Pesam]

I am not sure if that midifeld would make it in Portugal even. They wheigh in averag 45 kilos, and besides Sterling none of them is very fast. In the Premier league you ask to be spanked heavily, as there is absolutely no steel there.

United's roster of midfielders this season includes, Valencia, Scholes, Carrick, Young, Nani, Cleverly and Giggs......very little "steel" there Insig and all of them bar Carrick are lightwieghts.

 

[rurikbird]

He was our third best player in the first 8 games of the season that had us lose 4 and sit 4th from bottom.
GO JOE!!!

As far as I recall, Allen was either our best or 2nd best player during the first 2 months - Gerrard wasn't "back" yet. And Suarez was still wasteful in some games.

 

[Piedro]

Haven't see the forum this divided over a player since.....

 

[Fabio]

I like the lad and think he's got tremendous potential BUT he's not influencing games enough for me.

Shelvey has, Henderson has started to and Gerrard is Gerrard.

For me it has to be lucas (because he's the only dm we have.. Sadly based on current form), and Gerrard (because he's picked up the slack and been amazing since the end of November).

The other can fight but out for the the other place, but hendo tends to close down much better all over the pitch, not just in his own half like Allen

 

[Oncy]

There has to be a correlation between our midfields poor performance and how shit their hairstyles are.
Gerrard has that shit Lego hair, Lucas has the early onset Mark Lawrenson, Shelvey........erm shady bits, Horrenderson has a 4 year old childs barnet and Joe Sideways has the hair of Jim Dale when he turns into Mr Hyde in Carry on Screaming.
They havnt a fucking fashionable trim between them.
Thats the problem.

 

[Piedro]

I love the way Andy calls him Joe Sideways. I've started a trend!

 

[Oncy]

Yeah wells all im saying is you dont see any of the other members of Steps about these days.
We know H died, but I reckon she ate the other 3.

 

[Hansern]

Deserves to be given some slack and time to develop as he's only 22.
We're sadly very impatient when it comes to new players and demand a quick fix.
It doesnt always happen like that, but this kid will be great.

The lack of a balanced midfield doesnt help him either, but the opinions on this las is divided and the same people are going around in circles with the same argument.

Hopefully this thread will be bumped in a few years time and the lad is class.

 

[Oncy]

What the fuck has that got to do with Claire from steps!?
ROSS!!!! This fucking scando is ruining this thread! Non topic keeping motherfucker.