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England vs Italy : Euro 2020 Final. 20.00 BST London

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People moaning that Kane took the first penalty... I'm always of the belief of having your best penalty takers first... might not even reach the 5th penalty. I remember Portugal got knocked out of a tournament a few years back before Ronaldo even got to take a penalty.

But yeah, you can't really designate takers based on training. As a manager, you have to see who looks and feels confident to take one. Saka is a kid, was poor in the game, never been under this pressure. Mental decision to thrust that on him.

But yeah, fuck Sir Waistcoat, Kane and England.
 
It's sad that the racist abuse of those 3 was inevitable. Absolute Neanderthals in this country. Actually, that's harsh on Neanderthals.
 
Halmeister said:
It's sad that the racist abuse of those 3 was inevitable. Absolute Neanderthals in this country. Actually, that's harsh on Neanderthals.
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What is it with Twitter? It seems like a totally different level of stupidity all together. I mean, Facebook threads are full of similar nonsense and it's not always from atypical white knuckle dragging bellends, racism on social media is everywhere and from all angles. Let's face it though, racism is still everywhere, even in my local there are idiots who are completely intolerant. It's baffling and sickening in this day and age.
 
Frogfish said:
Figures. Cowardice & Idiocy rewarded.
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He got to a semi and then a final. He's done well. We can argue the toss over some of his decisions, but he's done better than any England manager in my lifetime. He's hardly a coward when he made tough decisions to sub subs, to play two unfashionable central midfielders throughout the entire tournament, to opt for different systems successfully. There's no cowardice to it, other than he probably should have made changes earlier in the game yesterday to wrestle control back and take the game to Italy. He got two games wrong in the entire campaign arguably, and one at the peak of the pressure and against one of the best footballing nations out there.

And I'm hardly a Southgate fan, but I'm not going to go with the coward tack one bit, he's made some ballsy decisions that bigger names have shirked.
 
A good manager would have had England 2 up at least by half time yesterday. He's so negative and cautious. We've seen it in all the other games. He's obsessed with trying not to lose that he forgets to go for the win.

Then obviously he fucked up extra time and penalties. The troglodytes in this country, though, are won over by the fact that he seems eloquent and wears a waistcoat. Morons. A good manager would have won that last night, Italy were ropey first half until Mancini - a good manager - addressed the issues.

But yeah, knight Southgate because he beat Panama 3 years ago and Denmark (thanks to an extra time dive) this year.
 
mark1975 said:
What is it with Twitter? It seems like a totally different level of stupidity all together. I mean, Facebook threads are full of similar nonsense and it's not always from atypical white knuckle dragging bellends, racism on social media is everywhere and from all angles. Let's face it though, racism is still everywhere, even in my local there are idiots who are completely intolerant. It's baffling and sickening in this day and age.
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Scary isn't it. I don't have Twitter, but I don't know if it's shone a light on the worst of humanity lurking beneath the surface, or created it. It really does make me despair either way.
 
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Frogfish said:
Read the thread .. you'll know who has it in for whom.

He could easily have said they had an idea who they going to choose and made the final decision based on confidence or whatever other reason. Stating they chose them beforehand based on training ground performance might lead to even more criticism. It should do !
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I'm talking about me -
Again though - you're assuming he wouldn't lie to protect a very good, young and united team ... There's more to win with what he said than say, "Yah, my decision had to be made because the others weren't stepping up to the challenge."
 
mark1975 said:
He got to a semi and then a final. He's done well. We can argue the toss over some of his decisions, but he's done better than any England manager in my lifetime. He's hardly a coward when he made tough decisions to sub subs, to play two unfashionable central midfielders throughout the entire tournament, to opt for different systems successfully. There's no cowardice to it, other than he probably should have made changes earlier in the game yesterday to wrestle control back and take the game to Italy. He got two games wrong in the entire campaign arguably, and one at the peak of the pressure and against one of the best footballing nations out there.

And I'm hardly a Southgate fan, but I'm not going to go with the coward tack one bit, he's made some ballsy decisions that bigger names have shirked.
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No, the team has done well. You seem to be attributing far too much of the credit on the waistcoat. The team would have done better under many many alternative and far more intelligent managers.
 
Halmeister said:
A good manager would have had England 2 up at least by half time yesterday. He's so negative and cautious. We've seen it in all the other games. He's obsessed with trying not to lose that he forgets to go for the win.

Then obviously he fucked up extra time and penalties. The troglodytes in this country, though, are won over by the fact that he seems eloquent and wears a waistcoat. Morons. A good manager would have won that last night, Italy were ropey first half until Mancini - a good manager - addressed the issues.

But yeah, knight Southgate because he beat Panama 3 years ago and Denmark (thanks to an extra time dive) this year.
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A great manager would have realised that quick players, like I dunno Rashford, could outpace Chielini and Bonucci especially in counter attack situations and maybe would have subbed Mount at the start of the 2nd half. But Southgate tried to pull a "Catenaccio" on the Italians and it fucking backfired.
Still, Southgate did something a lot England managers failed to do, which is take England to a final, so cudos to him.
Also, Pickford was easily England's best player in the final.
The young German team that lost in 2006 learned from it and came back 8 years later and finally won the world cup. England has a young team, they've got time on their hands and with Trent in the squad, maybe they can do it again.
 
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I still can't work out if Donnarumma is the calmest 22 year-old on the planet, or if he just didn't realise his save had just won Italy the championship.

Great bloody keeper, either way.

 
mark1975 said:
He got to a semi and then a final. He's done well. We can argue the toss over some of his decisions, but he's done better than any England manager in my lifetime. He's hardly a coward when he made tough decisions to sub subs, to play two unfashionable central midfielders throughout the entire tournament, to opt for different systems successfully. There's no cowardice to it, other than he probably should have made changes earlier in the game yesterday to wrestle control back and take the game to Italy. He got two games wrong in the entire campaign arguably, and one at the peak of the pressure and against one of the best footballing nations out there.

And I'm hardly a Southgate fan, but I'm not going to go with the coward tack one bit, he's made some ballsy decisions that bigger names have shirked.
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Agree with all of this, he almost made the same mistake with the subs versus Denmark but got away with it. Yesterday there was no reprieve.

One thing I'm glad with, agree or disagree with his team selections. Hopefully the days of being picked because of who you play for, or how many caps you have before are over.

It's easy for us armchair fans to say "he should have changed this in the 60th minute" or whatever, he had to make that call. And yes he got it wrong yesterday. As I said earlier, there are a lot of boxes been ticked so the pressure will be less for the next X years.
 
got red on me said:
I still can't work out if Donnarumma is the calmest 22 year-old on the planet, or if he just didn't realise his save had just won Italy the championship.

Great bloody keeper, either way.

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Probably knew he was going to save it the moment he saw Saka walking up, and felt guilty about it, thinking poor kid, I don't want to do this to him, and so forth.
 
Frogfish said:
Age & experience matters ... Grealish has now played in 4 cup finals and 260+ games, Saka just over a 100 games and that was his first final (playing all 120 mins and therefore fatigued). Considering Grealish's passing accuracy and ball control I'd have had him over Saka every day of the week - and he was due to take one (the one after Saka perhaps)?
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Small point but Saka only came on after 70 mins so didn’t play all 120, not even close.
 
momoWASboss said:
He still has not been doing it against the best of the best. He has 12 more international caps than I do. He is nowhere near a senior player.

Let’s use F1 as an example. An F2 driver wins the title (insane pressure to do so) and gets a seat in F1. After 2 seasons at a back/midfield team he isn’t considered a senior driver no matter his talent. The senior drivers are those who win races and titles.
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momoWASboss said:
He still has not been doing it against the best of the best. He has 12 more international caps than I do. He is nowhere near a senior player.

Let’s use F1 as an example. An F2 driver wins the title (insane pressure to do so) and gets a seat in F1. After 2 seasons at a back/midfield team he isn’t considered a senior driver no matter his talent. The senior drivers are those who win races and titles.
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Look at the 10 outfield players who could take a pen.
Now put them in order of seniority.
If you are seriously saying Grealish, a club captain with hundreds of senior club games who’s played in multiple cup finals isnt more senior than Sancho and Saka then I guess there is nothing more to say.
 
got red on me said:
I still can't work out if Donnarumma is the calmest 22 year-old on the planet, or if he just didn't realise his save had just won Italy the championship.

Great bloody keeper, either way.

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I know he's been great for Italy - but I don't think he's a 'great goalie' ... He's really good for his age - and is on his way to being great (it seems) but now his big challenge arrives.
1 for a club that a) should win every French trophy without much of a hassle and b) expects to win the CL.
He'll have to be on 100% - not like playing for Milan where the expectations never really matched the talent of the squads he was playing for.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
Please let me know what players I dislike so I can confirm or deny this speculative claim.

Also, please confirm you think managers always tell the truth and wouldn't lie, or throw themselves under the bus (especially when their jobs are 100% safe), to protect their players and what they're trying to build?
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Nah, that would be a stupid lie and would get leaked. Literally never the case here.
 
Dreambeliever said:
Look at the 10 outfield players who could take a pen.
Now put them in order of seniority.
If you are seriously saying Grealish, a club captain with hundreds of senior club games who’s played in multiple cup finals isnt more senior than Sancho and Saka then I guess there is nothing more to say.
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I’m not on about penalties. I’m on about classing him as a senior player. If we signed him, would he be classed as a senior player? Would he shite.
 
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