Trent vs Bradders or A.N. Other

[StevieM]

I don't really like this logic

Our forwards (bar Keita) did everything in their power that day to score and were met by possibly one of the greatest goalkeeping performances of all time. Any other day we probably would have scored 3 or more.

Trent lost track of his runner, which he does multiple times in a season.

If Trent kept his concentration then maybe we do get to pens.

Trent as a right back at times forgets the basics, or seemingly decides he can't be arsed.

Yes the type of football we played under klopp was very much risk/reward when it came to Trent. Slot seems inherently more risk averse, unless we're chasing a game.

So, the question becomes "does slot want his DM/RCM to babysit, or does he want his RCM to create enough that we can have defensively sound right back"


I also hasten to add, "defensively sound" does not mean "attacking deficient"

I’m not saying Trent wasn’t a contributing factor tonys losing, but to blame the loss solely on him in a match when we failed to score is bollocks.

Interesting what some people remember - I have no recollection of Trent making a mistake (well a vague recollection).

Keita’s miss is seared into my brain though.

So for me there are 2 things that needed to happen (like the previous final against RM needed Salah injured and Ramos not sent off along with Karius’ display.

Even if Trent hadn’t made a mistake, we wouldn’t necessarily have won.

I would also add this - we were pretty awful in every single cup final we played under Klopp and any win was scrappy - I’m hoping to see this change under Slot and we actually win a final (any final) with minimal drama.

 

[StevieM]

Yeah. But if you don't score and then haplessly dick around at the back, you lose. Like Trent successfully proved.

Again, yes, don’t disagree, but it takes the 2 things combined to lose a game.

It is possible to win a game despite making a critical defensive error.

 

[Fabio]

I’m not saying Trent wasn’t a contributing factor tonys losing, but to blame the loss solely on him in a match when we failed to score is bollocks.

Interesting what some people remember - I have no recollection of Trent making a mistake (well a vague recollection).

Keita’s miss is seared into my brain though.

So for me there are 2 things that needed to happen (like the previous final against RM needed Salah injured and Ramos not sent off along with Karius’ display.

Even if Trent hadn’t made a mistake, we wouldn’t necessarily have won.

I would also add this - we were pretty awful in every single cup final we played under Klopp and any win was scrappy - I’m hoping to see this change under Slot and we actually win a final (any final) with minimal drama.

Agreed, we were shite in finals; the big players (bar Mane) often hid.

And i'm like you, i blame keita more than trent..... BUT that game typifies why i don't think Trent as a right back is for a long time, more just a good time. The trade offs can come in any game, but if theres a risk of it in a big game, then you strongly need to look at it as a problem area.

Trent has an absolute wand of a right foot, but he also has a bit of the gerrards about him, and not in a good way. He will try again and again and again to do the same ball, even at detriment to the team. I appreciate they're low completion crosses, but theres certain games (now with slot) where control is paramount. I wish he could adapt and cement himself as a CM, but he's looked ropey and unsure whenever he played there. At set pieces he's not as good as he once was, so we can't even use that defence any more. He works best with a mobile 9, or a faster version of Salah. We have neither at present.

We more than likely will never see a player like trent come through our academy, and thats a damn shame. But you look at all the teams who have won the league; how many have had someone like trent in defence? Titles are won by defences.

 

[the count]

Agreed, we were shite in finals; the big players (bar Mane) often hid.

And i'm like you, i blame keita more than trent..... BUT that game typifies why i don't think Trent as a right back is for a long time, more just a good time. The trade offs can come in any game, but if theres a risk of it in a big game, then you strongly need to look at it as a problem area.

Trent has an absolute wand of a right foot, but he also has a bit of the gerrards about him, and not in a good way. He will try again and again and again to do the same ball, even at detriment to the team. I appreciate they're low completion crosses, but theres certain games (now with slot) where control is paramount. I wish he could adapt and cement himself as a CM, but he's looked ropey and unsure whenever he played there. At set pieces he's not as good as he once was, so we can't even use that defence any more. He works best with a mobile 9, or a faster version of Salah. We have neither at present.

We more than likely will never see a player like trent come through our academy, and thats a damn shame. But you look at all the teams who have won the league; how many have had someone like trent in defence? Titles are won by defences.

Actually we were pretty good in Klopp's first final against Real and had them on the ropes.
Then Mo got taken out of the game and it evened up before Karius got to do his thing

 

[Fabio]

Actually we were pretty good in Klopp's first final against Real and had them on the ropes.
Then Mo got taken out of the game and it evened up before Karius got to do his thing

We did well, but our heads dropped when salah went off (apart from mane). Then karius dropped his head too much and twatted the sense out of it

 

[StevieM]

Agreed, we were shite in finals; the big players (bar Mane) often hid.

And i'm like you, i blame keita more than trent..... BUT that game typifies why i don't think Trent as a right back is for a long time, more just a good time. The trade offs can come in any game, but if theres a risk of it in a big game, then you strongly need to look at it as a problem area.

Trent has an absolute wand of a right foot, but he also has a bit of the gerrards about him, and not in a good way. He will try again and again and again to do the same ball, even at detriment to the team. I appreciate they're low completion crosses, but theres certain games (now with slot) where control is paramount. I wish he could adapt and cement himself as a CM, but he's looked ropey and unsure whenever he played there. At set pieces he's not as good as he once was, so we can't even use that defence any more. He works best with a mobile 9, or a faster version of Salah. We have neither at present.

We more than likely will never see a player like trent come through our academy, and thats a damn shame. But you look at all the teams who have won the league; how many have had someone like trent in defence? Titles are won by defences.

On the flip side, no Trent taking that corner quickly and we possibly have one less CL trophy and Barca have one more.

It’s back to the risk and reward - might have been you, but someone described Trent as a “unicorn”, he’s unique in an attacking sense because he is a playmaker from RB, which means he gets space that he wouldn’t be afforded anywhere else - no-one’s man marking a FB, tut does give space for teams to exploit.

I’d hoped he’d focus a little more on his defensive side - he does go through phases were he’s defensively sound.

 

[Fabio]

On the flip side, no Trent taking that corner quickly and we possibly have one less CL trophy and Barca have one more.

It’s back to the risk and reward - might have been guy, but someone described Trent as a “unicorn”, he’s unique in an attacking sense because he is a playmaker from RB, which means he gets space that he wouldn’t be afforded anywhere else - no-one’s man marking a FB, tut does give space for teams to exploit.

I’d hoped he’d focus a little more on his defensive side - he does go through phases were he’s defensively sound.

I think thats the part thats most galling. He goes through phases where he's defensively sound, but he also goes through phases where his attacking play is awful. In a way he reminds me of coutinho. He could be a 10 that week or he could be a 4. At least with coutinho though he was in a part of the pitch that should have some failsafe behind it. With Trent he's usually just got alisson to bail him out.

There's no right answer to the Trent issue. Both sides have a strong and compelling case. Ideally we're in a phase where we shouldn't have to be relying on impact from right back. Trent at his peak had fabinho, henderson and gini as his creative players. Perhaps sprinkle in an Ox in there as well. Now we've got (arguably) 3 of the best ball playing midfielders in the world in gravy, szob and macca; with elliott, jones providing more than capable backup.

Robbo we're all more than accepting to replace, yet he's also high up on the assist charts and was a fantastic servant for us. We were willing to overlook his attacking deficiencies over the last year or so, as he was still defensively solid. Now that seems to be a thing of the past as well (at least when it comes to 2 games a week).

Perhaps we're at the stage where we do need to say "thanks" and wish Trent well with whatever he decides. No hard feelings, we've won it all together. Maybe we've just outgrown each other.

 

[localny]

He doesn't seem to be aware he has a player on his shoulder.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xCTxnIFq9s

 

[dogboy]

How are yous still picking over a match that was almost three years ago? Wise up.

 

[StevieM]

I think thats the part thats most galling. He goes through phases where he's defensively sound, but he also goes through phases where his attacking play is awful. In a way he reminds me of coutinho. He could be a 10 that week or he could be a 4. At least with coutinho though he was in a part of the pitch that should have some failsafe behind it. With Trent he's usually just got alisson to bail him out.

There's no right answer to the Trent issue. Both sides have a strong and compelling case. Ideally we're in a phase where we shouldn't have to be relying on impact from right back. Trent at his peak had fabinho, henderson and gini as his creative players. Perhaps sprinkle in an Ox in there as well. Now we've got (arguably) 3 of the best ball playing midfielders in the world in gravy, szob and macca; with elliott, jones providing more than capable backup.

Robbo we're all more than accepting to replace, yet he's also high up on the assist charts and was a fantastic servant for us. We were willing to overlook his attacking deficiencies over the last year or so, as he was still defensively solid. Now that seems to be a thing of the past as well (at least when it comes to 2 games a week).

Perhaps we're at the stage where we do need to say "thanks" and wish Trent well with whatever he decides. No hard feelings, we've won it all together. Maybe we've just outgrown each other.

It’s the ageing with Robbo, but I’m happy if he decides to leave for a small fee in the summer or plays out his contract and retires or leaves on a free for one last payday.

Trent’s in his prime.

 

[rubans]

How are yous still picking over a match that was almost three years ago? Wise up.

We are still banging on about Suarez even though he would have bitten his way to Arsenal after printing all those T-shirts too, like a cuck unable to let go of a cheating spouse …

 

[Fabio]

It’s the ageing with Robbo, but I’m happy if he decides to leave for a small fee in the summer or plays out his contract and retires or leaves on a free for one last payday.

Trent’s in his prime.

Might be his prime, but if he's holding us back, or we're no longer playing to his strengths, it's all for the greater good of the club. We don't overly know what slots got in his mind for the role. I'm sure we're doing everything we can to get him to renew, as worst case scenario we can get a few mil for him that way.

Obviously he's a fantastic talent; but can you realistically build long term around a right back?

 

[StevieM]

Might be his prime, but if he's holding us back, or we're no longer playing to his strengths, it's all for the greater good of the club. We don't overly know what slots got in his mind for the role. I'm sure we're doing everything we can to get him to renew, as worst case scenario we can get a few mil for him that way.

Obviously he's a fantastic talent; but can you realistically build long term around a right back?

Yeah, but we’re not building a team round him, we’re utilising him as part of an overall strategy.

I’d imagine Slot looks at him and goes “wow, this opens up new possibilities” - it all comes down to whether Trent wants to actually be the best RB in the world like he says he does or not - that involves trusting Slot’s coaching to improve him and making an effort, although the other route is playing for Real Madrid and just declaring yourself the best because those wankers feel entitled to that sort of shit.

 

[Fabio]

Yeah, but we’re not building a team round him, we’re utilising him as part of an overall strategy.

I’d imagine Slot looks at him and goes “wow, this opens up new possibilities” - it all comes down to whether Trent wants to actually be the best RB in the world like he says he does or not - that involves trusting Slot’s coaching to improve him and making an effort, although the other route is playing for Real Madrid and just declaring yourself the best because those wankers feel entitled to that sort of shit.

But utilising rather than building around him means he has to be more involved and improve on the defensive slog. No team is bigger than the system, and our system is control. As much as I give Salah shite for missing chances or wasting passes; cunt works his arse off usually to defend. Trent I dunno.

Obviously we don't know the inner workings of Trent, but the fact his head has been turned kind of implies he just wants the plaudits with less of the work. With Madrid he's guaranteed success, arguably with less workload and in a warmer climate. With us it's a slog week in week out and we're a more difficult league, against other teams willing to outspend us.

Who knows though. Might get to last game of the season and he does a Gerrard "how can I leave this team?" Kind of thing. I don't think he will, but I've been wrong many many times before.

 

[Athens]

How are yous still picking over a match that was almost three years ago? Wise up.

Are you new here?

 

[Dreambeliever]

Hopefully Bradley plays against PSV

 

[StevieM]

But utilising rather than building around him means he has to be more involved and improve on the defensive slog. No team is bigger than the system, and our system is control. As much as I give Salah shite for missing chances or wasting passes; cunt works his arse off usually to defend. Trent I dunno.

Obviously we don't know the inner workings of Trent, but the fact his head has been turned kind of implies he just wants the plaudits with less of the work. With Madrid he's guaranteed success, arguably with less workload and in a warmer climate. With us it's a slog week in week out and we're a more difficult league, against other teams willing to outspend us.

Who knows though. Might get to last game of the season and he does a Gerrard "how can I leave this team?" Kind of thing. I don't think he will, but I've been wrong many many times before.

Yeah, don’t disagree