Highly regarded.

[mark1975]

Just been reading through the Silva thread and then the Yossi thread and it got me thinking..

Brendan's got reservations over Silva for physical reasons, and statistically he's not that great either (though I think we'd improve him no end)...

What would general opinion of Kuyt and Yossi be if they'd just had the same seasons they've had at one of the Spanish clubs??

I'm sure if someone held up their stats and pointed them out as potential targets, most would be licking their lips based on this seasons assists and goals tallies. They're respective stats are better than Silva's and probably better than most of the players we're being linked with.

Just how much do we underrate some of this league's players and how much do we overrate those from other leagues? Look at Cisse, when he was coming over here he was being heralded as similar to Henry, with great goalscoring records, blah blah. Kezman, Deco, Veron etc have all failed to some degree after being lauded as certs to be Premiership superstars in the making.

Ultimately I guess the main point is that players are suited to some leagues better than others, while some players shining in other leagues (like Holland and France) is more a sign of them playing in a less competitive league..

Either way, I think we've got two lads there who are massively underrated and we'll be hard pushed to find someone of real quality who will become our next best attacking midfielder after Gerrard.

 

[Glock21]

Sometimes statistics means fuck all. Torres have never scored more than 21 goals in a season before he join us. So Silva could be something like Torres. We just need to fucking gamble and sign him. We gambled when we sign Keane and the rest is history.

 

[Mors]

Thompson told Ged that Ronaldo was too leightweight for the premiership. Ha.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880356#msg880356 date=1243941159]
Sometimes statistics means fuck all. Torres have never scored more than 21 goals in a season before he join us. So Silva could be something like Torres. We just need to fucking gamble and sign him. We gambled when we sign Keane and the rest is history.
[/quote]

I'm not really against Silva, Glock. I just think sometimes we become a bit overawed at players because they play in a different league, I'm not saying that's the case with Silva, but it DOES happen.

Keane was a no go for so many varying factors, and the fact he returned to Spurs 5 months later puts him in a category on his own, it was a one off, he could have gone to Arsenal or Chelsea and had a different season, who knows?

 

[ILD]

[quote author=Mors link=topic=33927.msg880359#msg880359 date=1243941346]
Thompson told Ged that Ronaldo was too leightweight for the premiership. Ha.
[/quote]

At the time Ronaldo was about 17. Silva is 23 and has stopped growing. Also Ronaldo was about 6 foot anyway at the time. He only needed to fill out which was still possible at a younger age.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=Mors link=topic=33927.msg880359#msg880359 date=1243941346]
Thompson told Ged that Ronaldo was too leightweight for the premiership. Ha.
[/quote]

5 mil for Essien blah blah blah...Houllier was blinded by his red scarf.

 

[ibromurph]

You see, I don't look at stats for foreign players. I look at their attributes and think "are they suited to this league". First physically, then technically, then mentally. If I were in Spain, it'd probably be looking at a player's suitably first technically, then mentally, then physically. It's all about what works in each league.


Nando, despite his average stats, is player who excels physically (he's quick and powerful) and mentally (he's an intelligent footballer, in movement and decision making). I'd actually say technically overall he's above average (his first touch ranges from sublime to very poor, but when it comes to shooting and all the essential technical attritubes of a striker, he's very good). So ultimately, a striker of Nando's abilities could always do well in Spain (where technique and mentality is more important quality than physical ones) and he did do well. But where he's really excelled is England where his main attributes are better suited.

Similarly, this is the reason why I think Morientes failed over here, despite somewhat impressive stats. Having said all that, as i've said on other threads. Having physical qualities alone, is no guarantee of success over here (i.e Cisse), it needs to be coupled with the right balance of technical and mental ability. Although you're more likely to get by here being a quick, unintelligent striker, than a slow, intelligent. Conversely, I think it works the opposite in Spain whereby a slow, technical, intelligent striker is better than a quick, unintelligent one. IMO.

 

[manwithnoname]

[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880356#msg880356 date=1243941159]
Sometimes statistics means fuck all. Torres have never scored more than 21 goals in a season before he join us. So Silva could be something like Torres. We just need to fucking gamble and sign him. We gambled when we sign Keane and the rest is history.
[/quote]

Torres had height, physique and blinding pace. All major advantages.

Silva has none of the above.

 

[Mors]

Come to think of it, Zola wasn't exactly tall or rapid either....

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=33927.msg880384#msg880384 date=1243942224]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880356#msg880356 date=1243941159]
Sometimes statistics means fuck all. Torres have never scored more than 21 goals in a season before he join us. So Silva could be something like Torres. We just need to fucking gamble and sign him. We gambled when we sign Keane and the rest is history.
[/quote]

Torres had height, physique and blinding pace. All major advantages.

Silva has none of the above.
[/quote]

Silva can have all of the above and there is still a percentage he might not do well here. All is a gamble boy. Kuyt was never a pacy forward but he can still play at right midfield and scored a few. Its all about the balance.

 

[keniget]

Yossi did play in La Liga for Racing Santander and I don't recall many (if any) suggesting we should defo get him (even when we learned Rafa has always been a fan).

But yeah, "grass is greener" and all of that does often apply.

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=Mors link=topic=33927.msg880359#msg880359 date=1243941346]
Thompson told Ged that Ronaldo was too leightweight for the premiership. Ha.
[/quote]

No he didn't, they thought he was too expensive (at £4m! :-\)

 

[juniormember]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=33927.msg880384#msg880384 date=1243942224]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880356#msg880356 date=1243941159]
Sometimes statistics means fuck all. Torres have never scored more than 21 goals in a season before he join us. So Silva could be something like Torres. We just need to fucking gamble and sign him. We gambled when we sign Keane and the rest is history.
[/quote]

Torres had height, physique and blinding pace. All major advantages.

Silva has none of the above.
[/quote]

Cisse, Babel, etc. But I do share the same reservations about Silva as you.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880398#msg880398 date=1243943282]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=33927.msg880384#msg880384 date=1243942224]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880356#msg880356 date=1243941159]
Sometimes statistics means fuck all. Torres have never scored more than 21 goals in a season before he join us. So Silva could be something like Torres. We just need to fucking gamble and sign him. We gambled when we sign Keane and the rest is history.
[/quote]

Torres had height, physique and blinding pace. All major advantages.

Silva has none of the above.
[/quote]

Silva can have all of the above and there is still a percentage he might not do well here. All is a gamble boy. Kuyt was never a pacy forward but he can still play at right midfield and scored a few. Its all about the balance.
[/quote]

Excuse me your Glockness, but I think it's team balance that everyone worried about Silva is thinking about. We have a clever and tenacious but slowish and not overly inventive RW, so a quicksilver and inventive LW seems to be a priority. Silva isn't quick, or a mercurial genius with the ball- so he isn't really providing much in the way of balance, is he?

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=33927.msg880459#msg880459 date=1243947725]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880398#msg880398 date=1243943282]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=33927.msg880384#msg880384 date=1243942224]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880356#msg880356 date=1243941159]
Sometimes statistics means fuck all. Torres have never scored more than 21 goals in a season before he join us. So Silva could be something like Torres. We just need to fucking gamble and sign him. We gambled when we sign Keane and the rest is history.
[/quote]

Torres had height, physique and blinding pace. All major advantages.

Silva has none of the above.
[/quote]

Silva can have all of the above and there is still a percentage he might not do well here. All is a gamble boy. Kuyt was never a pacy forward but he can still play at right midfield and scored a few. Its all about the balance.
[/quote]

Excuse me your Glockness, but I think it's team balance that everyone worried about Silva is thinking about. We have a clever and tenacious but slowish and not overly inventive RW, so a quicksilver and inventive LW seems to be a priority. Silva isn't quick, or a mercurial genius with the ball- so he isn't really providing much in the way of balance, is he?
[/quote]

I'd disagree Doc. It's precisely Silva's mercurial talent with the ball that makes me want him. He's certainly a very different player to Kuyt on the other flank.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=Buddha link=topic=33927.msg880465#msg880465 date=1243947938]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=33927.msg880459#msg880459 date=1243947725]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880398#msg880398 date=1243943282]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=33927.msg880384#msg880384 date=1243942224]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880356#msg880356 date=1243941159]
Sometimes statistics means fuck all. Torres have never scored more than 21 goals in a season before he join us. So Silva could be something like Torres. We just need to fucking gamble and sign him. We gambled when we sign Keane and the rest is history.
[/quote]

Torres had height, physique and blinding pace. All major advantages.

Silva has none of the above.
[/quote]

Silva can have all of the above and there is still a percentage he might not do well here. All is a gamble boy. Kuyt was never a pacy forward but he can still play at right midfield and scored a few. Its all about the balance.
[/quote]

Excuse me your Glockness, but I think it's team balance that everyone worried about Silva is thinking about. We have a clever and tenacious but slowish and not overly inventive RW, so a quicksilver and inventive LW seems to be a priority. Silva isn't quick, or a mercurial genius with the ball- so he isn't really providing much in the way of balance, is he?
[/quote]

I'd disagree Doc. It's precisely Silva's mercurial talent with the ball that makes me want him. He's certainly a very different player to Kuyt on the other flank.

[/quote]

Well anyone who seems to have seen a fair bit of him tends to disagree. Bunny said he was less mercurial than Gracia (but more dependable). Ballague has complained of his very inconsistent season. For my own part, I've only seen him a few times for Valencia, and a few times for Spain- where I regarded him as a non-entity. Tidy sort of player, but not touched by genius by any stretch of the imagination. Have we had trial by youtube yet?

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=33927.msg880469#msg880469 date=1243948252]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=33927.msg880465#msg880465 date=1243947938]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=33927.msg880459#msg880459 date=1243947725]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880398#msg880398 date=1243943282]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=33927.msg880384#msg880384 date=1243942224]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880356#msg880356 date=1243941159]
Sometimes statistics means fuck all. Torres have never scored more than 21 goals in a season before he join us. So Silva could be something like Torres. We just need to fucking gamble and sign him. We gambled when we sign Keane and the rest is history.
[/quote]

Torres had height, physique and blinding pace. All major advantages.

Silva has none of the above.
[/quote]

Silva can have all of the above and there is still a percentage he might not do well here. All is a gamble boy. Kuyt was never a pacy forward but he can still play at right midfield and scored a few. Its all about the balance.
[/quote]

Excuse me your Glockness, but I think it's team balance that everyone worried about Silva is thinking about. We have a clever and tenacious but slowish and not overly inventive RW, so a quicksilver and inventive LW seems to be a priority. Silva isn't quick, or a mercurial genius with the ball- so he isn't really providing much in the way of balance, is he?
[/quote]

I'd disagree Doc. It's precisely Silva's mercurial talent with the ball that makes me want him. He's certainly a very different player to Kuyt on the other flank.

[/quote]

Well anyone who seems to have seen a fair bit of him tends to disagree. Bunny said he was less mercurial than Gracia (but more dependable). Ballague has complained of his very inconsistent season. For my own part, I've only seen him a few times for Valencia, and a few times for Spain- where I regarded him as a non-entity. Tidy sort of player, but not touched by genius by any stretch of the imagination. Have we had trial by youtube yet?
[/quote]

I must have caught his better performances then? And no, we haven't subjected him to the acid test yet.

Who'd you prefer (realistically for the left) then Doc?

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=33927.msg880459#msg880459 date=1243947725]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880398#msg880398 date=1243943282]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=33927.msg880384#msg880384 date=1243942224]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880356#msg880356 date=1243941159]
Sometimes statistics means fuck all. Torres have never scored more than 21 goals in a season before he join us. So Silva could be something like Torres. We just need to fucking gamble and sign him. We gambled when we sign Keane and the rest is history.
[/quote]

Torres had height, physique and blinding pace. All major advantages.

Silva has none of the above.
[/quote]

Silva can have all of the above and there is still a percentage he might not do well here. All is a gamble boy. Kuyt was never a pacy forward but he can still play at right midfield and scored a few. Its all about the balance.
[/quote]

Excuse me your Glockness, but I think it's team balance that everyone worried about Silva is thinking about. We have a clever and tenacious but slowish and not overly inventive RW, so a quicksilver and inventive LW seems to be a priority. Silva isn't quick, or a mercurial genius with the ball- so he isn't really providing much in the way of balance, is he?
[/quote]

You are either stubborn, have not watched Silva play or maybe too dumb enough to talk about football. Silva is not as pacy as Torres or Babel is but he certainly isn't slow. He's quicker than Kuyt and you can say as pacier as Riera but better in dribbling, close control and set pieces etc. So that is something we are missing at the moment. Silva if we sign him and adapt well to our team we could have a better player than what we're seeing him now.

I suggest for a stubborn and lazy person like you to go and watch some of the video of him playing or better still youtube compilation.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=Buddha link=topic=33927.msg880471#msg880471 date=1243948380]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=33927.msg880469#msg880469 date=1243948252]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=33927.msg880465#msg880465 date=1243947938]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=33927.msg880459#msg880459 date=1243947725]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880398#msg880398 date=1243943282]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=33927.msg880384#msg880384 date=1243942224]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33927.msg880356#msg880356 date=1243941159]
Sometimes statistics means fuck all. Torres have never scored more than 21 goals in a season before he join us. So Silva could be something like Torres. We just need to fucking gamble and sign him. We gambled when we sign Keane and the rest is history.
[/quote]

Torres had height, physique and blinding pace. All major advantages.

Silva has none of the above.
[/quote]

Silva can have all of the above and there is still a percentage he might not do well here. All is a gamble boy. Kuyt was never a pacy forward but he can still play at right midfield and scored a few. Its all about the balance.
[/quote]

Excuse me your Glockness, but I think it's team balance that everyone worried about Silva is thinking about. We have a clever and tenacious but slowish and not overly inventive RW, so a quicksilver and inventive LW seems to be a priority. Silva isn't quick, or a mercurial genius with the ball- so he isn't really providing much in the way of balance, is he?
[/quote]

I'd disagree Doc. It's precisely Silva's mercurial talent with the ball that makes me want him. He's certainly a very different player to Kuyt on the other flank.

[/quote]

Well anyone who seems to have seen a fair bit of him tends to disagree. Bunny said he was less mercurial than Gracia (but more dependable). Ballague has complained of his very inconsistent season. For my own part, I've only seen him a few times for Valencia, and a few times for Spain- where I regarded him as a non-entity. Tidy sort of player, but not touched by genius by any stretch of the imagination. Have we had trial by youtube yet?
[/quote]

I must have caught his better performances then? And no, we haven't subjected him to the acid test yet.

Who'd you prefer (realistically for the left) then Doc?
[/quote]

Does it really fucking matter what Doc prefer?

 

[doctor_mac]

I'd love Joe Cole or Ashley Young.

Not sure either is realistic to be fair.

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=33927.msg880508#msg880508 date=1243954038]
I'd love Joe Cole or Ashley Young.

Not sure either is realistic to be fair.
[/quote]

Funnily enough, I'd say Silva and Cole are similar type players (with Silva having more potential). That said, Cole is prem-proven.

Young still has a fair amount to prove after a decent half-season.

I can't say I'd be disappointed with either though, even if I'd much prefer Silva.

 

[mark1975]

A while ago I'd have taken Cole, he's a great player, but his injury record has become horrendous.

 

[Rosco]

On the topic of "highly regarded" , people often say we should sell Dossena because he's highly regarded in Italy.

By who ?

There has never been any proof that he's highly regarded anywhere.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33927.msg880572#msg880572 date=1243959740]
On the topic of "highly regarded" , people often say we should sell Dossena because he's highly regarded in Italy.

By who ?

There has never been any proof that he's highly regarded anywhere.
[/quote]

True, though press speculation over there suggests that teams do want him. We'll see what happens, he's an International of sorts isn't he?

 

[rurikbird]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=33927.msg880352#msg880352 date=1243940833]
Just been reading through the Silva thread and then the Yossi thread and it got me thinking..

Brendan's got reservations over Silva for physical reasons, and statistically he's not that great either (though I think we'd improve him no end)...

What would general opinion of Kuyt and Yossi be if they'd just had the same seasons they've had at one of the Spanish clubs??

I'm sure if someone held up their stats and pointed them out as potential targets, most would be licking their lips based on this seasons assists and goals tallies. They're respective stats are better than Silva's and probably better than most of the players we're being linked with.

Just how much do we underrate some of this league's players and how much do we overrate those from other leagues? Look at Cisse, when he was coming over here he was being heralded as similar to Henry, with great goalscoring records, blah blah. Kezman, Deco, Veron etc have all failed to some degree after being lauded as certs to be Premiership superstars in the making.

Ultimately I guess the main point is that players are suited to some leagues better than others, while some players shining in other leagues (like Holland and France) is more a sign of them playing in a less competitive league..

Either way, I think we've got two lads there who are massively underrated and we'll be hard pushed to find someone of real quality who will become our next best attacking midfielder after Gerrard.
[/quote]

That's the danger of making judgments based on stats. If professional scouts worked that way, Dani Guiza would have been playing in Barca and Iniesta would be at Fenerbahce. In any case, I don't think there would be that much excitement about Kuyt or Yossi even at these boards, because they, being older and technically inferior, likely would not attract too much interest from the likes of Madrid and Barca and command big price tags. And if there is something people on this forum love more than judging a player by his goalscoring stats, it's judging him by the transfer fee.