Chelsea (A) - 4 April 2023

[darkstarexodus]

I get the logic in what you’re saying, but there’s a danger in that route that sees any gains from a midfield rebuild offset by the 8-10 point loss of a truly world class keeper (however promising Kelleher is).

Alli goes nowhere for me.

It's not what I want to do. But if we're going to flounder in midtable for 2 or 3 seasons like Arsenal while rebuilding our young talent, what's the point in having the best keeper in the world anyways? Do we want the Europa League more than we want to speedily rebuild.

I want us to invest heavy and retool on the fly. I'm just not convinced that's what we're going to do.

 

[KopRed]

No way Alisson is going. It wasn't so apparent how good he was when we had a reliable defence. This season has really highlighted how much of a world class player he is. Perhaps our only world class player left.

 

[LarryHagman]

It has to depend on our budget surely? If our only signing was to be Bellingham, I can't see that transforming us; he'd just be the new Gerrard carrying the rest of them. I'd rather sell Ali, sign Bellingham and AN Other top midfielder with Kelleher in nets than just sign Bellingham. Ideally obvs, I'd rather keep Ali and have loads to spend on MF but, can't see that happening.

 

[darkstarexodus]

No way Alisson is going. It wasn't so apparent how good he was when we had a reliable defence. This season has really highlighted how much of a world class player he is. Perhaps our only world class player left.

And that's literally my point. What use is it to have one world class player when, to compete, we need a squad with several of them.

Ali is the best in the world, in my opinion. But that doesn't get us trophies if the rest of the side isn't up to par. And we have a capable deputy/replacement if it comes down to it.

We either need to significantly spend to retool on the fly or sell the assets we have to rebuild over several windows.

I much prefer the retool option. I'm not sure what our owners think.

 

[LarryHagman]

Selling Coutinho to buy VVD and Ali was the best business ever. Selling Ali to buy a top MF and promoting Kelleher could reap similar dividend. Might not, we might not need to, but it's an option we should consider.

 

[peekay]

It's not what I want to do. But if we're going to flounder in midtable for 2 or 3 seasons like Arsenal while rebuilding our young talent, what's the point in having the best keeper in the world anyways? Do we want the Europa League more than we want to speedily rebuild.

I want us to invest heavy and retool on the fly. I'm just not convinced that's what we're going to do.

I get your point but I think the most prudent would be to see how much improvement we can make after investing in midfield this summer. Get the right three midfielders and I am confident we can get back to being top three. Once that happens, we may not need to sell Allison to evolve the squad further.

Of course, my post is based on the assumption that we have money for three midfielders without any major sales.

 

[KopRed]

And that's literally my point. What use is it to have one world class player when, to compete, we need a squad with several of them.

Ali is the best in the world, in my opinion. But that doesn't get us trophies if the rest of the side isn't up to par. And we have a capable deputy/replacement if it comes down to it.

We either need to significantly spend to retool on the fly or sell the assets we have to rebuild over several windows.

I much prefer the retool option. I'm not sure what our owners think.

Well, if we are literally going back to the Rafa days where we need to sell our best players to buy, it's not going to matter anyway, we are not catching up to the clubs with almost unlimited resources. Even more so now.

 

[KopRed]

The only chance we have is to go back to the tried and tested method of buying under the radar players, those in the 30-40m range and hope they come good. Much like how Arsenal have accumulated their players in recent years.

It has proven to be wishful thinking all along, to think we have the finances to get the Enzos, the Tchouamenis, and the Bellinghams. It was never going to work but we put all our eggs in that basket and we have this season to pay for it.

I am hopeful we can scrap together some dough to get 2 or 3, 30-40m players, but not at the expense of selling our best players; and there ain't many I am not open to selling based on this season to be honest.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Well, if we are literally going back to the Rafa days where we need to sell our best players to buy, it's not going to matter anyway, we are not catching up to the clubs with almost unlimited resources. Even more so now.

We sold Coutinho to get where we are now. I don't want to sell Ali or Virgil but we should be open to receiving an offer if it's good enough.

We should only deal from a position of strength, which means not waiting for our top players to significantly decline before we consider a sale.

If it's Ali leading us to the margins of contention versus Kelleher behind a replenished squad that can truly compete, I'll take the latter.

 

[rubans]

The only difference was LFC 9th in the football wealth table when we sold Coutinho to fund our backbone.
We are now 3rd in Wealth table and don’t have a Coutninho to fund our new backbone.
We would need to sell Salah + Alisson plus a few others for that.

 

[MomoWASright]

The only difference was LFC 9th in the football wealth table when we sold Coutinho to find our backbone.
We are now 3rd in Wealth table and don’t have a Coutninho to find our new backbone.
We would need to sell Salah + Alisson plus a few others for that.

I’d sell the lot after the last 4 games. Clean slate.

 

[refugee]

It has to depend on our budget surely? If our only signing was to be Bellingham, I can't see that transforming us; he'd just be the new Gerrard carrying the rest of them. I'd rather sell Ali, sign Bellingham and AN Other top midfielder with Kelleher in nets than just sign Bellingham. Ideally obvs, I'd rather keep Ali and have loads to spend on MF but, can't see that happening.

Where were you two when I made this post ffs (the other person being @darkstarexodus but I fucked up multi quoting on my phone.)
http://sixcrazyminutes.com/threads/summer-clear-out-poll.197421/#post-2209927

 

[darkstarexodus]

Where were you two when I made this post ffs (the other person being @darkstarexodus but I fucked up multi quoting on my phone.)
http://sixcrazyminutes.com/threads/summer-clear-out-poll.197421/#post-2209927

Must have missed that thread. And my view on this has strengthened after recent performances. We look done as a team.

 

[Irishanfield]

Seriously ? We don't know what Jones is capable of by now?

We do, he's nowhere near good enough

 

[Irishanfield]

I love Alisson as both a player and a human but if we think this is now a rebuild project, I think we should be open to selling him to fund it. Kelleher is ready for a chance and no player has emerged from this season with their reputation (and sell-on value) more intact than Ali.

A world record fee would go a long way and we'd be dealing from a position of strength with a capable replacement already on hand.

Irish Kevin isn't half the player alisson is. We could easily have been just hovering just above relegation with out him.
He won us games away at spurs and agsinst 10 man Newcastle.

 

[MomoWASright]

A decent midfield could’ve won us more than 3 games.

 

[KopRed]

Realistically who can afford Ali though? I would think we are talking about minimum coutinho money here?

Out of the "big" clubs, I think only Chelsea, United and Barca have a need for a top class keeper better than what they have at the moment. Barca are skint, and there is no way in hell we are selling to Chelsea or United.

In theory, I will be open to sell if we receive stupid money for him, but I am not sure where it is coming from. The thing I would not do is to whore him around Europe at the risk of unsettling him. And he deserves better than that to be honest, his professionalism has never been in question.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Realistically who can afford Ali though? I would think we are talking about minimum coutinho money here?

Out of the "big" clubs, I think only Chelsea, United and Barca have a need for a top class keeper better than what they have at the moment. Barca are skint, and there is no way in hell we are selling to Chelsea or United.

In theory, I will be open to sell if we receive stupid money for him, but I am not sure where it is coming from. The thing I would not do is to whore him around Europe at the risk of unsettling him. And he deserves better than that to be honest, his professionalism has never been in question.

I don't think we should "whore him" (or Virgil) at all. But if someone calls with a credible offer, I don't think we should laugh down the phone line at them either.

 

[keniget]

Realistically who can afford Ali though? I would think we are talking about minimum coutinho money here?

Out of the "big" clubs, I think only Chelsea, United and Barca have a need for a top class keeper better than what they have at the moment. Barca are skint, and there is no way in hell we are selling to Chelsea or United.

In theory, I will be open to sell if we receive stupid money for him, but I am not sure where it is coming from. The thing I would not do is to whore him around Europe at the risk of unsettling him. And he deserves better than that to be honest, his professionalism has never been in question.

Yup and the same probably goes for Salah to be honest.

 

[Markeh]

Credible arguments for and against selling him but yea i don’t see any clubs splashing transfer window transforming amounts on him. He is also one of the few positions we don’t need to look at this summer.

 

[bluebell]

How about we find out what the budget is before imagining selling our best assets? If PSG offered £80m for Salah, I would take it, if no one does, then he remains. I would try to push CJ and Gomez out and would take £20m for CJ and £35-40m for Gomez.
If we get 5-6 new signings, I know we're challenging next season

 

[bluebell]

Didn't know had a son?

 

[Irishanfield]

How about we find out what the budget is before imagining selling our best assets? If PSG offered £80m for Salah, I would take it, if no one does, then he remains. I would try to push CJ and Gomez out and would take £20m for CJ and £35-40m for Gomez.
If we get 5-6 new signings, I know we're challenging next season

See. That has been. Our problem in the past, having a way to hight a price on players and not being willing to drop the price..
Origi is a prime example. There were a few clubs sniffing around for him but wouldn't meet our valuation and we wouldnt drop our price and eventually he leaves a few seasons later on a free

Jones isn't worth near 20m and gomez isn't worth 40m...
10m and 20m respectively.

Oh and if we bring in 5 or 6 first teamers then we won't be challenging next season as they will need a good six months to bed in. This is real world shit and not video game like football manager

 

[Whaddapie]

If it meant that we then bought Bellingham AND Rice and a top CB, I'd sell Mo and Virgil this morning. But never Ali. And yes, that's my heart speaking as much as my head. I f#$@ing LOVE that bloke.

 

[Irishanfield]

If it meant that we then bought Bellingham AND Rice and a top CB, I'd sell Mo and Virgil this morning. But never Ali. And yes, that's my heart speaking as much as my head. I f#$@ing LOVE that bloke.

Exactly. Alisson is the only player I wouldnt sell

 

[binomial]

If it meant that we then bought Bellingham AND Rice and a top CB, I'd sell Mo and Virgil this morning. But never Ali. And yes, that's my heart speaking as much as my head. I f#$@ing LOVE that bloke.

So you love Ali but Virg and Mo are worthless pieces of meat who we should kick out and feed to a pack of Hyena's?

We shouldn't be selling our best players full stop. Just like without Ali's saves, without Mo's goals we'd be in a relegation fight and without Virgil having to try and defend for about 3 people we would be too.

 

[Whaddapie]

So you love Ali but Virg and Mo and worthless pieces of meat who we should kick out and feed to a pack of Hyena's?

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I said. FFS.

 

[binomial]

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I said. FFS.

Should we sell Fab Hendo Matip & Trent as well? Players that've played a HUGE part in our success over the years, is that what you're also telling me?!?

Can't believe you'd ever suggest such a thing, when will this madness cease to end?

 

[MomoWASright]

Should we sell Fab Hendo Matip & Trent as well? Players that've played a HUGE part in our success over the years, is that what you're also telling me?!?

Can't believe you'd ever suggest such a thing, when will this madness cease to end?

We should definitely sell the first 3.

 

[Whaddapie]

Should we sell Fab Hendo Matip & Trent as well? Players that've played a HUGE part in our success over the years, is that what you're also telling me?!?

Can't believe you'd ever suggest such a thing, when will this madness cease to end?

Erm... No. I didn't mention those platers at all. Why are you simply inventing things that we haven't actually said today?

That said, do you think that any of them will play important roles in the impending rebuild that's so necessary? Lots of players have played a HUGE part of our success before, but guess what..? That's in the past and does not matter to our future...

If you really think that keeping clearly past-their-prime players around at the expense of (currently) better players in those positions is madness, then there's nothing I or anybody else on this site can do to help you.

For the record, Fabs is another huge favourite of mine, but if we got good money for him, yes, I'd sell... He's a shadow of his former self. Hendo too, but I'd keep him for his leadership in the changing room. Milner too, for the same reason. We've gotten old as a team and Klopp's game depends upon indefatigable midfielders and fast, disciplined defenders... Currently, we have none of those. For me, very few of our current squad should be untochable, for the right price.