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Agger don't don't don't

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You will sadly most likely be proved right as we've been struggling too many years now to be ready for a titlepush any time soon but I still think it's a pretty bold statement mate.

I don't think we ended 8th last Season because of Agger and Skrtel as they both had very good Seasons. To sell one COULD make sense if the money was right as one player is replaceable but to tear it up completely a month prior to kick-off would be borderline ludicrous no matter the money involved.
 
the_khl said:
You will sadly most likely be proved right as we've been struggling too many years now to be ready for a titlepush any time soon but I still think it's a pretty bold statement mate.

I don't think we ended 8th last Season because of Agger and Skrtel as they both had very good Seasons. To sell one COULD make sense if the money was right as one player is replaceable but to tear it up completely a month prior to kick-off would be borderline ludicrous no matter the money involved.
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A month?

The season starts in about 2 and a half weeks.
 
I liked the idea of Kjaer and Agger at the back if Skrtel left, I don't like the idea of anything if Agger leaves.
 
Rosco said:
United lost the title in injury time, they don't need to rebuild because they've got enough flexibility to keep them competitive.

We finished eight, we have fuck all financial flexibility. We will never win the league with Agger and Skrtel - not because they aren't any good.

Anyone over the age of 25 should be available for sale
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As Kris says, that's a very bold statement.

It may well be that we don't win the title with Agger and Skrtel - but it won't be because of Agger and Skrtel.

If the answer is to sell one or both of Agger and Skrtel then it was a stupid question in the first place.
 
I love this idea of Oncey that we should never sell our best players, but possibly sell the crap ones (for fuck all money, naturally) and use the money we won't get to buy more brilliant players. Flawless plan, that.

I don't think Skrtel and Agger are players we should be desperate to sell - if they were a couple of years older and still attracting similar bids then they would be - but with them both being 28 in December and one of them injury-prone and the other inconsistent, I'd definitely sell at the right price - probably around the £20m mark.

I know it's not the way we want to do it, but imo unless the owners put major money in we're not going to get a really strong suad together unless we start selling wisely and, obviously, buying wisely with the proceeds.
 
I actually don't think Skrtel's faster than Agger. Am I the only one?
Anyway 2 weeks to go. Getting rid of our best centre back in this time frame is suicidal.
And we won't find a better player for 13m.
 
Rosco said:
United lost the title in injury time, they don't need to rebuild because they've got enough flexibility to keep them competitive.

We finished eight, we have fuck all financial flexibility. We will never win the league with Agger and Skrtel - not because they aren't any good.

Anyone over the age of 25 should be available for sale
Click to expand...

If we sell Agger and Skrtel, we will slide even further down the league and right down there.

That would make signing the best young players next to impossible, which undermines our long term rebuilding plans.
 
I think the underlying concept of Oncey's post is that we're not a selling club.

This is in contradiction to what many perceive what the owners want to do but, really, that perception has many flaws.

They want to sell those players which are not contributing and are not worth it. By this definition every club on the planet is a selling club - the difference being that they don't all have as clearly defined a set of criteria by which to make the decision.

Beyond this catch-all for every club in football there are clubs which are selling clubs; clubs which make their money, accept they don't have the fiscal base to go to the top and so don't over reach. Portsmouth didn't follow that guideline. Teams like the mancs, Barca, Madrid, Inter, Juve, the Chavs etc are not selling clubs. They sell players who have reached their peak and dropped down the other side to a point where they can no longer contribute to the clubs goal of winning titles. At least not heavily contribute in their opinion. At which point they sell and bring in someone else - almost certainly costing more money.

What people on here are talking about is the idea that we're somehow going to finance all our player purchases going forward through player sales; that's not going to work and nor do I believe it's what FSG want. I know there is the odd exception but big clubs don't mark their success by saying that we earned more than we spent in player sales.

If we sell Skrtel or Agger because we think the right bid came in then it's nuts - particularly 2 weeks out from the season. There are no obvious candidates who will improve the team so there is no reason to sell them. They will contribute to a team that has success which is what we want and what the owners should want.
 
Rosco has proven once again this season that he knows nothing about how to get a side back amongst the big boys, i'd advice not to listen to him.
 
the_khl said:
Yeah, that's pretty tedious, I just got trolled in by those comments. Again.

I'm weak.
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"Trolled" my @rse. As usual, Kristian, you're going right off the deep end on this. For the record:

1. Skrtel is better at some things, Agger at others. The only person "trolling" about one being "the better defender" is you.
2. I don't know who you thought you were answering in those last two rather hysterical paragaphs of yours above, but it wasn't anything I'd written. Skrtel's heading has been a weak point for some time, but last season he was a beast in the air. That's something no-one will ever say about your poster boy.
 
Well what I want them to do does blur the line between a buying club and a selling club - basically something similar to what Arsenal have done under Wenger for the past 10+ years, namely to sell when a player hits a certain age and reinvest in younger players of the same quality.

The major flaw in that idea is it only works as long as other big clubs carry on paying premiums for 27-30 year olds who'll be worth nothing in 5 years - if enough clubs see the folly in that then the price of older and younger players will adjust accordingly and there's no longer any way to beat the market. But while it's still going on, we should exploit it.

Compare two players, the 23 year old Skrtel and the 28 year old Skrtel. One cost £6.5m (not sure what the inflation has been since 2008 but let's call it £10m) and after 5 years is worth £20m. That a negative cost of £2m per season. The other will cost £20m and at 33 will be worth nothing in 5 years' time, that's a positive cost of £4m per season.

I want more of the former and fewer of the latter.
 
Wizadry

Your explanation is so proffessional I thought you were quoting as a representatve of our clubs owners. I hop you are right.

Regards,

MORON
 
We should not sell Agger or Skrtel. We are in a very weak position now and the chances of us attracting anyone of remotely the same quality and comfort with the premier league is minimal.

Our first aim is to get back to the champions league and our chances are highest by retaining the core group of players Herr Oncy identified.

If we make true progress towards as a club, I am sure we will be able to convince at least Agger to sign a new deal. We need continuity and stability. If we loose our main central defenders this summer, next summer we sell Suarez and Reina, we will be in a constant state of flux and not evolve.
 
juniormember said:
I actually don't think Skrtel's faster than Agger. Am I the only one?
Anyway 2 weeks to go. Getting rid of our best centre back in this time frame is suicidal.
And we won't find a better player for 13m.
Click to expand...

A short while ago, one of the papers gave Opta figures for our squad. The difference between the CBs wasn't huge but Skrtel was definitely the quicker of the two.
 
peterhague said:
Well what I want them to do does blur the line between a buying club and a selling club - basically something similar to what Arsenal have done under Wenger for the past 10+ years, namely to sell when a player hits a certain age and reinvest in younger players of the same quality.

The major flaw in that idea is it only works as long as other big clubs carry on paying premiums for 27-30 year olds who'll be worth nothing in 5 years - if enough clubs see the folly in that then the price of older and younger players will adjust accordingly and there's no longer any way to beat the market. But while it's still going on, we should exploit it.

Compare two players, the 23 year old Skrtel and the 28 year old Skrtel. One cost £6.5m (not sure what the inflation has been since 2008 but let's call it £10m) and after 5 years is worth £20m. That a negative cost of £2m per season. The other will cost £20m and at 33 will be worth nothing in 5 years' time, that's a positive cost of £4m per season.

I want more of the former and fewer of the latter.
Click to expand...

During this period, Arsenal have gone from being top 2 every year and winning titles regularly, to struggling to maintain their grip on a champions league place and winning fuck all for seven years.

They haven't reinvested in players of the same quality. Not even close.
 
Is it possible that this is just agent talk to try and improve the contract offer on the table for his client?
 
grumpymonkey 2.0 said:
During this period, Arsenal have gone from being top 2 every year and winning titles regularly, to struggling to maintain their grip on a champions league place and winning fuck all for seven years.

They haven't reinvested in players of the same quality. Not even close.
Click to expand...

Well they first started with Overmars back in, what, 99 was it? And you have to ask yourself, 'compared to what?'

They've had fuck all net spend for 10 years, maybe more, and yet have *always* qualified for the CL and occasionally challenged for the title and CL. I think Wenger's excellent policy isn't the reason having no money to spend has produced 'fuck all' trophies, but the reason they haven't finished mid-table, lost out on much-needed CL revenues, and really felt the burden of the massive stadium debt.
 
Judge Jules said:
"Trolled" my @rse. As usual, Kristian, you're going right off the deep end on this. For the record:

1. Skrtel is better at some things, Agger at others. The only person "trolling" about one being "the better defender" is you.
2. I don't know who you thought you were answering in those last two rather hysterical paragaphs of yours above, but it wasn't anything I'd written. Skrtel's heading has been a weak point for some time, but last season he was a beast in the air. That's something no-one will ever say about your poster boy.
Click to expand...
You are not as innocent as you are making out mate, but I'm not going to argue that I was rather irritated when I saw your comments and Marks 'like' in the first place why I could've been over-reacting. My bad.

The fight is over now mind, so no need to try and ignite again old friend 😉
 
Judge Jules said:
A short while ago, one of the papers gave Opta figures for our squad. The difference between the CBs wasn't huge but Skrtel was definitely the quicker of the two.
Click to expand...
He is certainly quicker over the first meters I believe. And probably also over longer distances as well.
 
peterhague said:
I love this idea of Oncey that we should never sell our best players, but possibly sell the crap ones (for fuck all money, naturally) and use the money we won't get to buy more brilliant players. Flawless plan, that.

I don't think Skrtel and Agger are players we should be desperate to sell - if they were a couple of years older and still attracting similar bids then they would be - but with them both being 28 in December and one of them injury-prone and the other inconsistent, I'd definitely sell at the right price - probably around the £20m mark.

I know it's not the way we want to do it, but imo unless the owners put major money in we're not going to get a really strong suad together unless we start selling wisely and, obviously, buying wisely with the proceeds.
Click to expand...
In all honesty mate id prefer it if we didnt sign shit players.
The list of players im glad we signed in the past decade is a fuckload smaller than the one i wish we hadnt.
I dont think the solution to where we are is to keep flogging the players we get the most money for in particular given the recent history we have evidenced regarding buying players. Rather I think it would exacerbate the situation.
I have been saying for literally decades buy ONE or TWO top players and work with what you have around that.
So we sell Agger and buy a half price potential laden replacement and another dempsey like 'jobbing' signing. Its fucking shite and weve been doing it for years and need to fucking stop.
Top teams very rarely sell their best players.
We WONT be a top team again unless we fucking pack it in.

And id rather sign no one than keep signing average players who will do a decent job.
Id rather keep Downing than sign Dempsey.
Id rather keep Carroll than sign someone else of similar or marginally better skill for more money.
Were a fucking joke club and have been for years, and this policy of selling Mascherano, Torres, Alonso and whomever the fuck else says I want out is seeing us slide down the table.
Agger
Skrtel
Johnson
Lucas
Gerrard
Kelly
Reina
Suarez
And the good kids are for me no deal.
No matter what the cost.
Because we will fuck up signing the replacements.
We always do.
 
Nothing undermines a rebuilding plan like a lack of cash, everything else is surmountable
 
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