What next for Lovren

[the count]

Not much talk of him being sold and the slight upturn in form towards the end of last season gives a glimmer of hope that he might improve but I reckon a Skrtel/Sakho combination is likely to be our favoured central defending pairing.
So what should we do with Dejan?
Keep him and hopes he improves?
Cut our losses and move him on while we can still get some return on our outlay.
Have a £20 m player sitting on the bench most weeks while at the same time stunting the development of Gomis and Illori.
What do you think we should do?

 

[Woland]

It's too confusing. He was boss for Southampton... how come he just went shit?

In a world of preening cunts he seems to stand out as someone who loves himself even more than everybody else. He defo licks his own bollocks.

 

[peterhague]

He's shit, a lost cause as a first team player. Right now Ilori is still a bit of an unknown, so he'll probably have to stay as a 4th choice for now.

We should look to get rid ASAP though.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

That infographic is misleading. It includes half of the 13/14 season which Lovren wasn't around for (2014-01-01 to 2014-05-whatever), and the first half of the season after he joined (2014-08-whatever to 2015-01-01). In other words, two different teams, as far as our momentum, confidence and striking ability, etc. were concerned.

In other words, it's an infographic designed to manipulate and paint Lovren in a horrible light. Not that he's been covering himself in glory in 14/15, but they could at least try to put up a fairer set of numbers for comparison.

 

[cloggypop]

No one is going to buy him after seeing that owl based fashion line. We are going to have to keep him.

 

[Hansern]

He's not shit. Hopefully he'll improve this season with O'Driscoll, a new midfield set up and a different approach
As we've said before its the system and not the players.

No point in selling him this season. If he doesnt improve though he'll be gone next summer.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

That infographic is misleading. It includes half of the 13/14 season which Lovren wasn't around for (2014-01-01 to 2014-05-whatever), and the first half of the season after he joined (2014-08-whatever to 2015-01-01). In other words, two different teams, as far as our momentum, confidence and striking ability, etc. were concerned.

In other words, it's an infographic designed to manipulate and paint Lovren in a horrible light. Not that he's been covering himself in glory in 14/15, but they could at least try to put up a fairer set of numbers for comparison.

I could be wrong, but I think it's just the dates on it that are wrong. The data is actually for last season only.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

I could be wrong, but I think it's just the dates on it that are wrong. The data is actually for last season only.

In that case.. if you add the wins up, you get 23 wins.

We didn't even win 20 games last season. The final record was 18 - 8 - 12.

 

[peterhague]

He's not shit. Hopefully he'll improve this season with O'Driscoll, a new midfield set up and a different approach
As we've said before its the system and not the players.

No point in selling him this season. If he doesnt improve though he'll be gone next summer.

A player who plays shit every week is shit. There's really no other explanation.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

In that case.. if you add the wins up, you get 23 wins.

We didn't even win 20 games last season. The final record was 18 - 8 - 12.

Ah ok, looks like you're right then.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

So I decided to look up and compile the numbers for the season:

IN STARTING XI NOT IN STARTING XI**
Frequency 22 16
Wins 9 9
Draws 4 4
Losses 9 3
Scored 26 25
Conceded 28 20

** this includes: sub appearances from bench + unused sub appearances + not in matchday squad

So yes, we've fared better in the league without him than with him in the starting XI. It's not as ghastly as the original infographic though. I'm missing one goal scored somewhere (we ended the season with 52 - 48), but I suppose one measly goal doesn't make too much of a difference.

 

[dantes]

What's an infographic? Is that a proper word that business type people use? In which case, LOL

 

[Hansern]

A player who plays shit every week is shit. There's really no other explanation.

He's not but there is no point in discussing this anyway.
He wont be sold either.

 

[Leo]

He is shit though.
There's not one positive thing from last season that gives me hope.
He's out of his depth in a system that doesn't benefit a defensive style of football.
Hope he fucks off.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe?]

He will start alongside Skrtel on the 1st day of the season.

 

[mark1975]

Said it a few times now, it's rare I give up on a player so early, but some of the mistakes he made last season were school boy stuff. Running away from a freekick with his back to the play, isn't that the sort of shit that's trained out of you when you're 9?

 

[dogboy]

What's an infographic? Is that a proper word that business type people use? In which case, LOL

Is it a Chris Morris term from 'the day today'?

 

[jan]

His shirts keep getting better

https://instagram.com/p/30spfXBtF5/

 

[cloggypop]

Ah fuck. He's got Coutinho wearing owl gear.

 

[Rosco]

So I decided to look up and compile the numbers for the season:

IN STARTING XI NOT IN STARTING XI**
Frequency 22 16
Wins 9 9
Draws 4 4
Losses 9 3
Scored 26 25
Conceded 28 20

** this includes: sub appearances from bench + unused sub appearances + not in matchday squad

So yes, we've fared better in the league without him than with him in the starting XI. It's not as ghastly as the original infographic though. I'm missing one goal scored somewhere (we ended the season with 52 - 48), but I suppose one measly goal doesn't make too much of a difference.

League stats only?

If you include all games according to Soccerbase we won 13, drew 6, lost 13 with Lovren.

Without: won 13, drew 9, lost 4.

 

[Wiberg]

He is a confidence player who reacts poorly out of his comfort zone.

He tried to pull the offside more than once where the others didn't. It cost us. Clearly the Southampton back 4 was much tighter which suited him much better.

The DM was non-existing when Lucas got injured.

Clearly there was about 5 situations last season that will remain hard to except given the price tag but I think he will come good with the right DM and fullbacks around him.

 

[Markeh]

His shirts keep getting better

https://instagram.com/p/30spfXBtF5/

If I screenrprinted those for gcse art I'd probably get a C

 

[Hansern]

Ah fuck. He's got Coutinho wearing owl gear.

80k week and you buy that. Christ.

 

[refugee]

Glue factory

 

[Dreambeliever]

He's lucked rubbish for the most part.

Hopefully it will be Sahko and Skrtel to start the season.

 

[Oncy]

He's lucked rubbish for the most part.

Hopefully it will be Sahko and Skrtel to start the season.

Jesus.

 

[Ryan]

It's too confusing. He was boss for Southampton... how come he just went shit?

He had Schneiderlin and Wanyama in front of him as defensive mids, Rodgers doesn't believe in defensive mids.
He had Fonte beside him and the two of them were rock solid centre back, Rodgers doesn't believe in rock solid centre backs.
He had Clyne and Shaw as full-backs around him, Rodgers has wing backs.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Jesus.

What don't you like about that?

 

[Ryan]

What don't you like about that?

It lucks rubbish.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

League stats only?

If you include all games according to Soccerbase we won 13, drew 6, lost 13 with Lovren.

Without: won 13, drew 9, lost 4.

Yeah I was looking only at the league record. Anyway, I did the numbers only to give whoscored the finger for their stupid use of numbers. I don't think a W-D-L record is the right thing to look at anyway. For example, what's our inability to score (and hence win) got to do with Lovren or any defender?

I suppose the goal concession record alone with him in/out of the starting XI would be sufficient as a rough guide. Even that itself doesn't cater for the other variables like the level of the opponents we played, etc. but I think it's at least a better indicator than the win-loss record. Turns out the result is rather surprising:

STARTS CONCEDED | NON-STARTS* CONCEDED
League 22 28 | 16 20
Others 10 11 | 10 9

* NON-STARTS = subbed-in + unused sub + not in squad

League:
The difference in goals conceded works out to a 0.02 with/without him in the starting XI! The non-start number is influenced by that thrashing at Stoke though, which is a seriously oddball event. Assuming we adjust that down to a usual 3-1 defeat (that seems to be our favourite losing scoreline under Rodgers by the way), then the difference is 0.27.

All competitions:
All games considered, the difference is 0.10 without adjustment, and 0.22 with the Stoke game score adjusted.

In English, that means about an additional goal conceded every 3.7 games in the league (i.e. 10 more conceded for the league season) or an additional goal conceded every 4.5 games across all competitions. That's with the adjusted score for the Stoke defeat; the difference is insignificant without the adjustment.

In other words, our defence is shit, and Lovren's presence in the starting XI makes it about 25% shittier. 😀 😀 😀