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I'd score Gerrard at least a 6, but otherwise I agree completely with Gsry.
Ratings vs Spurs
- Thread starter Frogfish
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[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1478974#msg1478974 date=1328645590]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48610.msg1478971#msg1478971 date=1328644941]
Doc we established a few years ago that this site is absolutely fucking hopeless at appreciating ball playing midfielders. About a year after Adam leaves they'll begin to realise he's good.
[/quote]
He's no Alonso, I'll tell you that.
[/quote]
Of course he's not. Alonso has never created 6 chances in a game. They play different roles.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48610.msg1478971#msg1478971 date=1328644941]
Doc we established a few years ago that this site is absolutely fucking hopeless at appreciating ball playing midfielders. About a year after Adam leaves they'll begin to realise he's good.
[/quote]
He's no Alonso, I'll tell you that.
[/quote]
Of course he's not. Alonso has never created 6 chances in a game. They play different roles.
Adam is too much of an enigma for me.
I appreciate the long bags but he needs to cut down on them when there is a simpler short pass. I'm not doing he should stop trying them, just try less because a majority of them seem shit.
His defensive work isn't his forte clearly, as his positioning is a shambles. Kranjcar/modric slipped behind him and spearing too often. This also happens whenever he's paired with gerrard in the middle so clearly he's a strong factor.
I think he should play more advanced, where his incisive passing could be deadlier.
Some games he's wonderful, some games he's shit. I've yet to see him have an average performance in my eyes
I appreciate the long bags but he needs to cut down on them when there is a simpler short pass. I'm not doing he should stop trying them, just try less because a majority of them seem shit.
His defensive work isn't his forte clearly, as his positioning is a shambles. Kranjcar/modric slipped behind him and spearing too often. This also happens whenever he's paired with gerrard in the middle so clearly he's a strong factor.
I think he should play more advanced, where his incisive passing could be deadlier.
Some games he's wonderful, some games he's shit. I've yet to see him have an average performance in my eyes
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48610.msg1479047#msg1479047 date=1328686767]
Adam is too much of an enigma for me.
I appreciate the long bags but he needs to cut down on them when there is a simpler short pass. I'm not doing he should stop trying them, just try less because a majority of them seem shit.
His defensive work isn't his forte clearly, as his positioning is a shambles. Kranjcar/modric slipped behind him and spearing too often. This also happens whenever he's paired with gerrard in the middle so clearly he's a strong factor.
I think he should play more advanced, where his incisive passing could be deadlier.
Some games he's wonderful, some games he's shit. I've yet to see him have an average performance in my eyes
[/quote]
My problem is you're spouting about his Hollywood balls in a game where he was the most accurate passer on the pitch. You are also criticising his defensive game, but he had more successful tackles than almost any LFC player and more interceptions than any player other than Johnson.
The stats (and my eyes) told me he had a good game, yet you are describing this one as if it was shit.
Adam is too much of an enigma for me.
I appreciate the long bags but he needs to cut down on them when there is a simpler short pass. I'm not doing he should stop trying them, just try less because a majority of them seem shit.
His defensive work isn't his forte clearly, as his positioning is a shambles. Kranjcar/modric slipped behind him and spearing too often. This also happens whenever he's paired with gerrard in the middle so clearly he's a strong factor.
I think he should play more advanced, where his incisive passing could be deadlier.
Some games he's wonderful, some games he's shit. I've yet to see him have an average performance in my eyes
[/quote]
My problem is you're spouting about his Hollywood balls in a game where he was the most accurate passer on the pitch. You are also criticising his defensive game, but he had more successful tackles than almost any LFC player and more interceptions than any player other than Johnson.
The stats (and my eyes) told me he had a good game, yet you are describing this one as if it was shit.
He could have easily won more tackles and had higher pass accuracy if he did the simple things instead of the adventurous
he seems to hesitate too much for my liking. There were many times we could have had a decent break If he passed the ball quicker.
He also seems to like doing something lucas was constantly berated for in the past and that's pass it backwards or sideways.
You know me doc, I give praise when I feel it's due (i started a thread praising him and apologising to you for my previous comments about him), but recently he's been off the boil for me. Wolves I've heard he was great, but I never saw it so can't comment.
he seems to hesitate too much for my liking. There were many times we could have had a decent break If he passed the ball quicker.
He also seems to like doing something lucas was constantly berated for in the past and that's pass it backwards or sideways.
You know me doc, I give praise when I feel it's due (i started a thread praising him and apologising to you for my previous comments about him), but recently he's been off the boil for me. Wolves I've heard he was great, but I never saw it so can't comment.
It was a solid defensive play with loads of sloppy attacking play which id like to give no attacking player more than a 6 rating. We really need to make more of set plays when we're struggling in open play. How many corners did we win? Its really fucking frustrating that a side with Carroll, Skrtel, Agger, Kelly and Gerrard in it can't get more joy from set plays.
Reina - 7 Making himself big for the key one on one against Bale probably gave us the point
Kelly - 7 Solid, not much got down his side and he was unlucky with the late effort from distance.
Skrtel - 8 Dominant in the air again and always looking to help out and be the extra man alongside Agger. Both continuously stepped up and helped press.
Agger - 8 Ditto the above, sharp in the tackle, read the game exceptionally when and his custom run won us another dangerous freekick
Johnson - 6 Some good stuff, particularly in cutting out danger late on, but his forward play was poor at times, despite cutting in on his favoured foot much of the time.
Adam - 7 Created a few openings, set pieces still not what they should be but defended well and always looked to make a penetrating pass.
Spearing - 7 Solid in the tackle, covered loads of ground along with Adam and passed well for the most part, unlucky with that rasping drive too.
Gerrard - 6.5 Started well but faded as the game wore on, understandable really, positive signs but he looks well off his best.
Kuyt - 6.5 Some neat flicks and lots of endeavour but not really his day.
Carroll - 8 Put himself everywhere, won the ball, flicked the ball into space and gave them a difficult evening with his strength and movement. Looking good!
Bellamy - 6.5 Quiet by his standards, not much came off.
Downing - 5 Poor contribution
Suarez - 6 Over eager and a touch off the pace, unsurprisingly, did give them something to think about though.
Kelly - 7 Solid, not much got down his side and he was unlucky with the late effort from distance.
Skrtel - 8 Dominant in the air again and always looking to help out and be the extra man alongside Agger. Both continuously stepped up and helped press.
Agger - 8 Ditto the above, sharp in the tackle, read the game exceptionally when and his custom run won us another dangerous freekick
Johnson - 6 Some good stuff, particularly in cutting out danger late on, but his forward play was poor at times, despite cutting in on his favoured foot much of the time.
Adam - 7 Created a few openings, set pieces still not what they should be but defended well and always looked to make a penetrating pass.
Spearing - 7 Solid in the tackle, covered loads of ground along with Adam and passed well for the most part, unlucky with that rasping drive too.
Gerrard - 6.5 Started well but faded as the game wore on, understandable really, positive signs but he looks well off his best.
Kuyt - 6.5 Some neat flicks and lots of endeavour but not really his day.
Carroll - 8 Put himself everywhere, won the ball, flicked the ball into space and gave them a difficult evening with his strength and movement. Looking good!
Bellamy - 6.5 Quiet by his standards, not much came off.
Downing - 5 Poor contribution
Suarez - 6 Over eager and a touch off the pace, unsurprisingly, did give them something to think about though.
Say what you want about Adam but he ain't Alonso!!
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
Re: Re: Ratings vs Spurs
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
Re: Re: Ratings vs Spurs
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479313#msg1479313 date=1328706369]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
[/quote]
It really didn't have to be said, as it is lazy bullshit, and suggests Adam is being played in the same role as Alonso. If he were, then the comment might carry some meaning, but as it is, you might as well say Agger is no Fowler.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479313#msg1479313 date=1328706369]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
[/quote]
It really didn't have to be said, as it is lazy bullshit, and suggests Adam is being played in the same role as Alonso. If he were, then the comment might carry some meaning, but as it is, you might as well say Agger is no Fowler.
Re: Re: Ratings vs Spurs
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48610.msg1479323#msg1479323 date=1328708662]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479313#msg1479313 date=1328706369]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
[/quote]
It really didn't have to be said, as it is lazy bullshit, and suggests Adam is being played in the same role as Alonso. If he were, then the comment might carry some meaning, but as it is, you might as well say Agger is no Fowler.
[/quote]
If you really think that Adam isn't playing in the same position as Alonso, then there's no discussion here.
But I do wonder what position you think he's playing.
The fact that you write that with such confidence is also a bit perplexing.
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48610.msg1479323#msg1479323 date=1328708662]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479313#msg1479313 date=1328706369]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
[/quote]
It really didn't have to be said, as it is lazy bullshit, and suggests Adam is being played in the same role as Alonso. If he were, then the comment might carry some meaning, but as it is, you might as well say Agger is no Fowler.
[/quote]
If you really think that Adam isn't playing in the same position as Alonso, then there's no discussion here.
But I do wonder what position you think he's playing.
The fact that you write that with such confidence is also a bit perplexing.
Re: Re: Ratings vs Spurs
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479351#msg1479351 date=1328710125]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48610.msg1479323#msg1479323 date=1328708662]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479313#msg1479313 date=1328706369]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
[/quote]
It really didn't have to be said, as it is lazy bullshit, and suggests Adam is being played in the same role as Alonso. If he were, then the comment might carry some meaning, but as it is, you might as well say Agger is no Fowler.
[/quote]
If you really think that Adam isn't playing in the same position as Alonso, then there's no discussion here.
But I do wonder what position you think he's playing.
The fact that you write that with such confidence is also a bit perplexing.
[/quote]
How often did Alonso break forward an attack the opposing defence in a season (never mind a game)?- barely at all. How many assists did Alonso get?- barely any. Adam currently has more assists than any other LFC player this season. He has created more unconverted chances than any other player this season. Either you must say that Alonso was actually a bit shit, or you acknowledge that they are different players tasked to do different things by their respective coaches. In basic terms- Xabi worked on a horizontal axis across the pitch, keeping the play ticking. Adam largely works along a vertical axis, sometimes picking the ball from the defence in a deep position, but sometimes collecting it a more advanced position; of course, he has got defensive responsibility too (and hasn't got the kind of freedom that SG had against Spurs).
It is 'perplexing' that you can't see this.
If you can't see that Adam has been tasked with a different role than Alonso then you're blind.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479351#msg1479351 date=1328710125]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48610.msg1479323#msg1479323 date=1328708662]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479313#msg1479313 date=1328706369]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
[/quote]
It really didn't have to be said, as it is lazy bullshit, and suggests Adam is being played in the same role as Alonso. If he were, then the comment might carry some meaning, but as it is, you might as well say Agger is no Fowler.
[/quote]
If you really think that Adam isn't playing in the same position as Alonso, then there's no discussion here.
But I do wonder what position you think he's playing.
The fact that you write that with such confidence is also a bit perplexing.
[/quote]
How often did Alonso break forward an attack the opposing defence in a season (never mind a game)?- barely at all. How many assists did Alonso get?- barely any. Adam currently has more assists than any other LFC player this season. He has created more unconverted chances than any other player this season. Either you must say that Alonso was actually a bit shit, or you acknowledge that they are different players tasked to do different things by their respective coaches. In basic terms- Xabi worked on a horizontal axis across the pitch, keeping the play ticking. Adam largely works along a vertical axis, sometimes picking the ball from the defence in a deep position, but sometimes collecting it a more advanced position; of course, he has got defensive responsibility too (and hasn't got the kind of freedom that SG had against Spurs).
It is 'perplexing' that you can't see this.
If you can't see that Adam has been tasked with a different role than Alonso then you're blind.
So I take it Alonso was MoM?
Adam had a decent game. I understand he created 6 chances, but I can't think of 6 chances that we had to score. In fact, the only example anyone can seem to think of is the one for Kuyt (which was a fantastic ball, btw). Off the top of my head, I can't think of another. Which to me highlights the problem of relying too heavily on stats to demonstrate a good performance. After all, I suspect that Downing and Henderson were bought partly because they've featured so highly in the "chances created" column in the league over the last couple of years. Yet they have what, one assist between them? Two?
I think the reason Adam divides opinion is that many of his performances are characterized by highlights, with periods of mediocrity in between. He does dwell on the ball from time to time, and his defending is largely average. But he's also capable of a moment of class that can open up a defence. That's not something Henderson can offer really, and no amount of "energy" or "tidiness" will change that.
Personally, I'm still not convinced that he'll be good enough even in the medium term, but for the time being (and so long as Spearing is fit), he should be starting most games IMO.
(Although I should probably add that I'd like to see more of Shelvey, but I can't see that happening until we start beating teams comfortably, and giving us the luxury of time at the end of games to give him his opportunities.)
I think the reason Adam divides opinion is that many of his performances are characterized by highlights, with periods of mediocrity in between. He does dwell on the ball from time to time, and his defending is largely average. But he's also capable of a moment of class that can open up a defence. That's not something Henderson can offer really, and no amount of "energy" or "tidiness" will change that.
Personally, I'm still not convinced that he'll be good enough even in the medium term, but for the time being (and so long as Spearing is fit), he should be starting most games IMO.
(Although I should probably add that I'd like to see more of Shelvey, but I can't see that happening until we start beating teams comfortably, and giving us the luxury of time at the end of games to give him his opportunities.)
Re: Re: Ratings vs Spurs
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479313#msg1479313 date=1328706369]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
[/quote]
It really didn't, it's like talking to Neil about fullbacks, if their defensive capability in any way outshines their attacking play, he doesn't want to know. Adam is a good passer of the ball, if you don't agree, go and watch the match winner at Stamford Bridge. He might not look the part, he might make mistakes and give the ball away frequently, but he CAN pass the ball.
I'd love to know what genius method you're utilising to decide whether someone is a good passer of the ball. Does it go by their hairstyle? The colour boots they wear?
If I wasn't so perplexed by how arrogant you are in these clueless assertions (note, your last post, right there), I'd move on, but as it is it's hilarious, so...
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479313#msg1479313 date=1328706369]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
[/quote]
It really didn't, it's like talking to Neil about fullbacks, if their defensive capability in any way outshines their attacking play, he doesn't want to know. Adam is a good passer of the ball, if you don't agree, go and watch the match winner at Stamford Bridge. He might not look the part, he might make mistakes and give the ball away frequently, but he CAN pass the ball.
I'd love to know what genius method you're utilising to decide whether someone is a good passer of the ball. Does it go by their hairstyle? The colour boots they wear?
If I wasn't so perplexed by how arrogant you are in these clueless assertions (note, your last post, right there), I'd move on, but as it is it's hilarious, so...
It just means...."Good attempt, but you still don't have a clue"
Re: Re: Ratings vs Spurs
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48610.msg1479363#msg1479363 date=1328710802]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479351#msg1479351 date=1328710125]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48610.msg1479323#msg1479323 date=1328708662]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479313#msg1479313 date=1328706369]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
[/quote]
It really didn't have to be said, as it is lazy bullshit, and suggests Adam is being played in the same role as Alonso. If he were, then the comment might carry some meaning, but as it is, you might as well say Agger is no Fowler.
[/quote]
If you really think that Adam isn't playing in the same position as Alonso, then there's no discussion here.
But I do wonder what position you think he's playing.
The fact that you write that with such confidence is also a bit perplexing.
[/quote]
How often did Alonso break forward an attack the opposing defence in a season (never mind a game)?- barely at all. How many assists did Alonso get?- barely any. Adam currently has more assists than any other LFC player this season. He has created more unconverted chances than any other player this season. Either you must say that Alonso was actually a bit shit, or you acknowledge that they are different players tasked to do different things by their respective coaches. In basic terms- Xabi worked on a horizontal axis across the pitch, keeping the play ticking. Adam largely works along a vertical axis, sometimes picking the ball from the defence in a deep position, but sometimes collecting it a more advanced position; of course, he has got defensive responsibility too (and hasn't got the kind of freedom that SG had against Spurs).
It is 'perplexing' that you can't see this.
If you can't see that Adam has been tasked with a different role than Alonso then you're blind.
[/quote]
***This part is actually more of a comparison between the two players and isn't relevant to the discussion. I'm not gonna go into detail about what type of player Alonso was (a million times better than Adam). I'm sticking to what position they both occupy.
*** Mainly correct but he's exceptionally good at positioning and he covered a lot of ground. You never saw him on the wing because he was quite disciplined and new exactly where he was supposed to be on the pitch however he did as he does now in Madrid help the fullbacks defensively. The reason he wasn't attacking like Adam is because we had a young(er) Gerrard with a free role ahead of him. Before that we had Garcia. Lately I've noticed that Gerrard isn't playing as high up on the pitch as he used to be maybe it's age or maybe he's just letting Adam get forward as well.
*** Alonso almost always started our attacks from a deep position. How many times didn't we see him pick up the ball from either the defenders or Reina and find players in space. So I really don't agree with your vertical-horizontal theory. In our own half Adam and Xabi are doing the exact same thing except Xabi was better defensively and covered more ground.
I'd like to argue that the reason Alonso didn't move up the pitch that much is because he wasn't that type of player, not because he didn't play in the same position as Adam. If Adam doesn't have the Alonso role who does? Gerrard?
With Lucas or Spearing in a three man midfield, someone has to be the playmaker. So that's why I believe that Adam is occupying the Alonso role.
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48610.msg1479363#msg1479363 date=1328710802]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479351#msg1479351 date=1328710125]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48610.msg1479323#msg1479323 date=1328708662]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479313#msg1479313 date=1328706369]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
[/quote]
It really didn't have to be said, as it is lazy bullshit, and suggests Adam is being played in the same role as Alonso. If he were, then the comment might carry some meaning, but as it is, you might as well say Agger is no Fowler.
[/quote]
If you really think that Adam isn't playing in the same position as Alonso, then there's no discussion here.
But I do wonder what position you think he's playing.
The fact that you write that with such confidence is also a bit perplexing.
[/quote]
How often did Alonso break forward an attack the opposing defence in a season (never mind a game)?- barely at all. How many assists did Alonso get?- barely any. Adam currently has more assists than any other LFC player this season. He has created more unconverted chances than any other player this season. Either you must say that Alonso was actually a bit shit, or you acknowledge that they are different players tasked to do different things by their respective coaches. In basic terms- Xabi worked on a horizontal axis across the pitch, keeping the play ticking. Adam largely works along a vertical axis, sometimes picking the ball from the defence in a deep position, but sometimes collecting it a more advanced position; of course, he has got defensive responsibility too (and hasn't got the kind of freedom that SG had against Spurs).
It is 'perplexing' that you can't see this.
If you can't see that Adam has been tasked with a different role than Alonso then you're blind.
[/quote]
***This part is actually more of a comparison between the two players and isn't relevant to the discussion. I'm not gonna go into detail about what type of player Alonso was (a million times better than Adam). I'm sticking to what position they both occupy.
*** Mainly correct but he's exceptionally good at positioning and he covered a lot of ground. You never saw him on the wing because he was quite disciplined and new exactly where he was supposed to be on the pitch however he did as he does now in Madrid help the fullbacks defensively. The reason he wasn't attacking like Adam is because we had a young(er) Gerrard with a free role ahead of him. Before that we had Garcia. Lately I've noticed that Gerrard isn't playing as high up on the pitch as he used to be maybe it's age or maybe he's just letting Adam get forward as well.
*** Alonso almost always started our attacks from a deep position. How many times didn't we see him pick up the ball from either the defenders or Reina and find players in space. So I really don't agree with your vertical-horizontal theory. In our own half Adam and Xabi are doing the exact same thing except Xabi was better defensively and covered more ground.
I'd like to argue that the reason Alonso didn't move up the pitch that much is because he wasn't that type of player, not because he didn't play in the same position as Adam. If Adam doesn't have the Alonso role who does? Gerrard?
With Lucas or Spearing in a three man midfield, someone has to be the playmaker. So that's why I believe that Adam is occupying the Alonso role.
Re: Re: Ratings vs Spurs
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479438#msg1479438 date=1328717210]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48610.msg1479363#msg1479363 date=1328710802]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479351#msg1479351 date=1328710125]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48610.msg1479323#msg1479323 date=1328708662]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479313#msg1479313 date=1328706369]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
[/quote]
It really didn't have to be said, as it is lazy bullshit, and suggests Adam is being played in the same role as Alonso. If he were, then the comment might carry some meaning, but as it is, you might as well say Agger is no Fowler.
[/quote]
If you really think that Adam isn't playing in the same position as Alonso, then there's no discussion here.
But I do wonder what position you think he's playing.
The fact that you write that with such confidence is also a bit perplexing.
[/quote]
How often did Alonso break forward an attack the opposing defence in a season (never mind a game)?- barely at all. How many assists did Alonso get?- barely any. Adam currently has more assists than any other LFC player this season. He has created more unconverted chances than any other player this season. Either you must say that Alonso was actually a bit shit, or you acknowledge that they are different players tasked to do different things by their respective coaches. In basic terms- Xabi worked on a horizontal axis across the pitch, keeping the play ticking. Adam largely works along a vertical axis, sometimes picking the ball from the defence in a deep position, but sometimes collecting it a more advanced position; of course, he has got defensive responsibility too (and hasn't got the kind of freedom that SG had against Spurs).
It is 'perplexing' that you can't see this.
If you can't see that Adam has been tasked with a different role than Alonso then you're blind.
[/quote]
***This part is actually more of a comparison between the two players and isn't relevant to the discussion. I'm not gonna go into detail about what type of player Alonso was (a million times better than Adam). I'm sticking to what position they both occupy.
*** Mainly correct but he's exceptionally good at positioning and he covered a lot of ground. You never saw him on the wing because he was quite disciplined and new exactly where he was supposed to be on the pitch however he did as he does now in Madrid help the fullbacks defensively. The reason he wasn't attacking like Adam is because we had a young(er) Gerrard with a free role ahead of him. Before that we had Garcia. Lately I've noticed that Gerrard isn't playing as high up on the pitch as he used to be maybe it's age or maybe he's just letting Adam get forward as well.
*** Alonso almost always started our attacks from a deep position. How many times didn't we see him pick up the ball from either the defenders or Reina and find players in space. So I really don't agree with your vertical-horizontal theory. In our own half Adam and Xabi are doing the exact same thing except Xabi was better defensively and covered more ground.
I'd like to argue that the reason Alonso didn't move up the pitch that much is because he wasn't that type of player, not because he didn't play in the same position as Adam. If Adam doesn't have the Alonso role who does? Gerrard?
With Lucas or Spearing in a three man midfield, someone has to be the playmaker. So that's why I believe that Adam is occupying the Alonso role.
[/quote]
I'm not going to go into detail why this is so much shit, because it is so shit I've lost the will to live.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479438#msg1479438 date=1328717210]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48610.msg1479363#msg1479363 date=1328710802]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479351#msg1479351 date=1328710125]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48610.msg1479323#msg1479323 date=1328708662]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48610.msg1479313#msg1479313 date=1328706369]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1#msg1 date=1328705676]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48610.msg1479295#msg1479295 date=1328705225]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479292#msg1479292 date=1328705097]
Did anyone say he is?
Alonso ain't no Jan Molby either.
[/quote]
Haha. Just read through this thread for the first time and couldnt help it 🙂
[/quote]
Fair enough.. It was a daft comment by Modo, it's like saying "well Spearing ain't no Mascherano". We know! But there is a load of cultural background, experience, transfer fees and umpteen other things to consider!
[/quote]
It had to be said. Cause I do appreciate passers and I'd never miss Adam.
[/quote]
It really didn't have to be said, as it is lazy bullshit, and suggests Adam is being played in the same role as Alonso. If he were, then the comment might carry some meaning, but as it is, you might as well say Agger is no Fowler.
[/quote]
If you really think that Adam isn't playing in the same position as Alonso, then there's no discussion here.
But I do wonder what position you think he's playing.
The fact that you write that with such confidence is also a bit perplexing.
[/quote]
How often did Alonso break forward an attack the opposing defence in a season (never mind a game)?- barely at all. How many assists did Alonso get?- barely any. Adam currently has more assists than any other LFC player this season. He has created more unconverted chances than any other player this season. Either you must say that Alonso was actually a bit shit, or you acknowledge that they are different players tasked to do different things by their respective coaches. In basic terms- Xabi worked on a horizontal axis across the pitch, keeping the play ticking. Adam largely works along a vertical axis, sometimes picking the ball from the defence in a deep position, but sometimes collecting it a more advanced position; of course, he has got defensive responsibility too (and hasn't got the kind of freedom that SG had against Spurs).
It is 'perplexing' that you can't see this.
If you can't see that Adam has been tasked with a different role than Alonso then you're blind.
[/quote]
***This part is actually more of a comparison between the two players and isn't relevant to the discussion. I'm not gonna go into detail about what type of player Alonso was (a million times better than Adam). I'm sticking to what position they both occupy.
*** Mainly correct but he's exceptionally good at positioning and he covered a lot of ground. You never saw him on the wing because he was quite disciplined and new exactly where he was supposed to be on the pitch however he did as he does now in Madrid help the fullbacks defensively. The reason he wasn't attacking like Adam is because we had a young(er) Gerrard with a free role ahead of him. Before that we had Garcia. Lately I've noticed that Gerrard isn't playing as high up on the pitch as he used to be maybe it's age or maybe he's just letting Adam get forward as well.
*** Alonso almost always started our attacks from a deep position. How many times didn't we see him pick up the ball from either the defenders or Reina and find players in space. So I really don't agree with your vertical-horizontal theory. In our own half Adam and Xabi are doing the exact same thing except Xabi was better defensively and covered more ground.
I'd like to argue that the reason Alonso didn't move up the pitch that much is because he wasn't that type of player, not because he didn't play in the same position as Adam. If Adam doesn't have the Alonso role who does? Gerrard?
With Lucas or Spearing in a three man midfield, someone has to be the playmaker. So that's why I believe that Adam is occupying the Alonso role.
[/quote]
I'm not going to go into detail why this is so much shit, because it is so shit I've lost the will to live.
Agree wih mark on most of his comments here.
Adam went shit after Lucas for injured but has started toget back on form recently in my opinion. Encouraging.
Adam went shit after Lucas for injured but has started toget back on form recently in my opinion. Encouraging.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48610.msg1479725#msg1479725 date=1328769084]
Adam plays alright, and Doc Mac's all over it like a fucking top man suit. Quelle a fucking surprise.
WHERE ARE YOU THE OTHER 75% OF THE TIME WHEN HE'S BEEN AVERAGE-TO-FUCKING SHIT?
[/quote]
I defend him when he plays well and he *still* get's criticised Ryan. You used to do the same with Lucas....
Adam plays alright, and Doc Mac's all over it like a fucking top man suit. Quelle a fucking surprise.
WHERE ARE YOU THE OTHER 75% OF THE TIME WHEN HE'S BEEN AVERAGE-TO-FUCKING SHIT?
[/quote]
I defend him when he plays well and he *still* get's criticised Ryan. You used to do the same with Lucas....
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48610.msg1479725#msg1479725 date=1328769084]
Adam plays alright, and Doc Mac's all over it like a fucking top man suit. Quelle a fucking surprise.
WHERE ARE YOU THE OTHER 75% OF THE TIME WHEN HE'S BEEN AVERAGE-TO-FUCKING SHIT?
[/quote]
Come on Ryan. You mean the last few games prior to Wolves where he was below par, since having to play without a defensive midfielder? 75% is an exaggeration when he's been involved in most of the goals we've scored this season (second only to Suarez). My main criticism of him is his setpieces haven't been close to what I thought they would be, aside from that he's been worth the transfer fee, easily.
You used to be all over Lucas like a rash when he played poorly/average. It wasn't like everyone else had the blinkers on, I've defended him plenty of times on here too, but called a spade a spade when he's played shit - and prior to last season he had played like a passenger ALOT.
Surprised you haven't been telling us that Enrique has mostly played shit to champion you're original predictions, despite him being great for most of the season.
As for Carroll, you seem to have bent the original theory on that one, from "he's a good player, he just doesn't fit the way we play", to "he'd be good for someone like Stoke".
Rewriting history eh!
Adam plays alright, and Doc Mac's all over it like a fucking top man suit. Quelle a fucking surprise.
WHERE ARE YOU THE OTHER 75% OF THE TIME WHEN HE'S BEEN AVERAGE-TO-FUCKING SHIT?
[/quote]
Come on Ryan. You mean the last few games prior to Wolves where he was below par, since having to play without a defensive midfielder? 75% is an exaggeration when he's been involved in most of the goals we've scored this season (second only to Suarez). My main criticism of him is his setpieces haven't been close to what I thought they would be, aside from that he's been worth the transfer fee, easily.
You used to be all over Lucas like a rash when he played poorly/average. It wasn't like everyone else had the blinkers on, I've defended him plenty of times on here too, but called a spade a spade when he's played shit - and prior to last season he had played like a passenger ALOT.
Surprised you haven't been telling us that Enrique has mostly played shit to champion you're original predictions, despite him being great for most of the season.
As for Carroll, you seem to have bent the original theory on that one, from "he's a good player, he just doesn't fit the way we play", to "he'd be good for someone like Stoke".
Rewriting history eh!
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479739#msg1479739 date=1328775888]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48610.msg1479725#msg1479725 date=1328769084]
Adam plays alright, and Doc Mac's all over it like a fucking top man suit. Quelle a fucking surprise.
WHERE ARE YOU THE OTHER 75% OF THE TIME WHEN HE'S BEEN AVERAGE-TO-FUCKING SHIT?
[/quote]
Come on Ryan. You mean the last few games prior to Wolves where he was below par, since having to play without a defensive midfielder? 75% is an exaggeration when he's been involved in most of the goals we've scored this season (second only to Suarez). My main criticism of him is his setpieces haven't been close to what I thought they would be, aside from that he's been worth the transfer fee, easily.
You used to be all over Lucas like a rash when he played poorly/average. It wasn't like everyone else had the blinkers on, I've defended him plenty of times on here too, but called a spade a spade when he's played shit - and prior to last season he had played like a passenger ALOT.
Surprised you haven't been telling us that Enrique has mostly played shit to champion you're original predictions, despite him being great for most of the season.
As for Carroll, you seem to have bent the original theory on that one, from "he's a good player, he just doesn't fit the way we play", to "he'd be good for someone like Stoke".
Rewriting history eh!
[/quote]
I've lauded several of Adam's good performances on here Mark. Go back and have a look if you like, the Chelsea away game is one off the top of my head. Ditto Enrique, I've not been shy in praising him and not once in the past month when he's been below par have I criticised him. Not once.
As for Lucas, well again - you're free to search back through my posts on him. He was criticised regularly by me, in fact the crux of a lot of my frustration was that (despite his ability which I always felt he had, in complete contrast to every signle one of the rest of you) I thought he didn't do enough in games. Didn't take enough responsibility and was happy to coast though games without influencing them. It led to games where he was largely anonymous. I argued that for him to go from promising to quality, he had to 'do' more' And hey presto, look what fucking happened.
That's the difference between Doctor Mac and I and the point which I was alluding to above. As well as Adam has played in some games, he's been as bad - if not worse - in others. And where has DM been then? Nowhere. And I wasn't the only poster to notice by the way. It's all fair and well giving it the big one about how you've 'always had my eye on him, knew he'd be great rah rah rah...' when he's had an on-day. Get yourself a set of balls and post the rest of the time when he's pinging passes around like diarrhoea. No comment from that game the other week when in 60 minutes of football he managed to give the ball away 20 times? Fuck me, get real.
Carroll? I'm not sure what your point is. You've pulled up two different posts from me where I'm saying he doesn't work for us. Is there something I'm missing?
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48610.msg1479725#msg1479725 date=1328769084]
Adam plays alright, and Doc Mac's all over it like a fucking top man suit. Quelle a fucking surprise.
WHERE ARE YOU THE OTHER 75% OF THE TIME WHEN HE'S BEEN AVERAGE-TO-FUCKING SHIT?
[/quote]
Come on Ryan. You mean the last few games prior to Wolves where he was below par, since having to play without a defensive midfielder? 75% is an exaggeration when he's been involved in most of the goals we've scored this season (second only to Suarez). My main criticism of him is his setpieces haven't been close to what I thought they would be, aside from that he's been worth the transfer fee, easily.
You used to be all over Lucas like a rash when he played poorly/average. It wasn't like everyone else had the blinkers on, I've defended him plenty of times on here too, but called a spade a spade when he's played shit - and prior to last season he had played like a passenger ALOT.
Surprised you haven't been telling us that Enrique has mostly played shit to champion you're original predictions, despite him being great for most of the season.
As for Carroll, you seem to have bent the original theory on that one, from "he's a good player, he just doesn't fit the way we play", to "he'd be good for someone like Stoke".
Rewriting history eh!
[/quote]
I've lauded several of Adam's good performances on here Mark. Go back and have a look if you like, the Chelsea away game is one off the top of my head. Ditto Enrique, I've not been shy in praising him and not once in the past month when he's been below par have I criticised him. Not once.
As for Lucas, well again - you're free to search back through my posts on him. He was criticised regularly by me, in fact the crux of a lot of my frustration was that (despite his ability which I always felt he had, in complete contrast to every signle one of the rest of you) I thought he didn't do enough in games. Didn't take enough responsibility and was happy to coast though games without influencing them. It led to games where he was largely anonymous. I argued that for him to go from promising to quality, he had to 'do' more' And hey presto, look what fucking happened.
That's the difference between Doctor Mac and I and the point which I was alluding to above. As well as Adam has played in some games, he's been as bad - if not worse - in others. And where has DM been then? Nowhere. And I wasn't the only poster to notice by the way. It's all fair and well giving it the big one about how you've 'always had my eye on him, knew he'd be great rah rah rah...' when he's had an on-day. Get yourself a set of balls and post the rest of the time when he's pinging passes around like diarrhoea. No comment from that game the other week when in 60 minutes of football he managed to give the ball away 20 times? Fuck me, get real.
Carroll? I'm not sure what your point is. You've pulled up two different posts from me where I'm saying he doesn't work for us. Is there something I'm missing?
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48610.msg1480077#msg1480077 date=1328846952]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479739#msg1479739 date=1328775888]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48610.msg1479725#msg1479725 date=1328769084]
Adam plays alright, and Doc Mac's all over it like a fucking top man suit. Quelle a fucking surprise.
WHERE ARE YOU THE OTHER 75% OF THE TIME WHEN HE'S BEEN AVERAGE-TO-FUCKING SHIT?
[/quote]
Come on Ryan. You mean the last few games prior to Wolves where he was below par, since having to play without a defensive midfielder? 75% is an exaggeration when he's been involved in most of the goals we've scored this season (second only to Suarez). My main criticism of him is his setpieces haven't been close to what I thought they would be, aside from that he's been worth the transfer fee, easily.
You used to be all over Lucas like a rash when he played poorly/average. It wasn't like everyone else had the blinkers on, I've defended him plenty of times on here too, but called a spade a spade when he's played shit - and prior to last season he had played like a passenger ALOT.
Surprised you haven't been telling us that Enrique has mostly played shit to champion you're original predictions, despite him being great for most of the season.
As for Carroll, you seem to have bent the original theory on that one, from "he's a good player, he just doesn't fit the way we play", to "he'd be good for someone like Stoke".
Rewriting history eh!
[/quote]
I've lauded several of Adam's good performances on here Mark. Go back and have a look if you like, the Chelsea away game is one off the top of my head. Ditto Enrique, I've not been shy in praising him and not once in the past month when he's been below par have I criticised him. Not once.
As for Lucas, well again - you're free to search back through my posts on him. He was criticised regularly by me, in fact the crux of a lot of my frustration was that (despite his ability which I always felt he had, in complete contrast to every signle one of the rest of you) I thought he didn't do enough in games. Didn't take enough responsibility and was happy to coast though games without influencing them. It led to games where he was largely anonymous. I argued that for him to go from promising to quality, he had to 'do' more' And hey presto, look what fucking happened.
That's the difference between Doctor Mac and I and the point which I was alluding to above. As well as Adam has played in some games, he's been as bad - if not worse - in others. And where has DM been then? Nowhere. And I wasn't the only poster to notice by the way. It's all fair and well giving it the big one about how you've 'always had my eye on him, knew he'd be great rah rah rah...' when he's had an on-day. Get yourself a set of balls and post the rest of the time when he's pinging passes around like diarrhoea. No comment from that game the other week when in 60 minutes of football he managed to give the ball away 20 times? Fuck me, get real.
Carroll? I'm not sure what your point is. You've pulled up two different posts from me where I'm saying he doesn't work for us. Is there something I'm missing?
[/quote]
Ryan, you've barely had a good word to say about him. In the games where he hasn't been great I've admitted he was off, but I still think he has settled remarkably well, and done a good, sometimes even excellent job.
I would be a liar to come on and say he had played fantastic in a game where he had an average performance. My outlook, however, has been consistent. The problem with *you* Ryan, is that you had made a decision about him well before he arrived, and before you had too much of an idea about the player. Did you make one comment about his terrific assist against Wolves a few days ago? A game in which he had two assists and played really well? No- because that wouldn't fit well with your agenda to prove that you were always right about him, would it?
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48610.msg1479739#msg1479739 date=1328775888]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48610.msg1479725#msg1479725 date=1328769084]
Adam plays alright, and Doc Mac's all over it like a fucking top man suit. Quelle a fucking surprise.
WHERE ARE YOU THE OTHER 75% OF THE TIME WHEN HE'S BEEN AVERAGE-TO-FUCKING SHIT?
[/quote]
Come on Ryan. You mean the last few games prior to Wolves where he was below par, since having to play without a defensive midfielder? 75% is an exaggeration when he's been involved in most of the goals we've scored this season (second only to Suarez). My main criticism of him is his setpieces haven't been close to what I thought they would be, aside from that he's been worth the transfer fee, easily.
You used to be all over Lucas like a rash when he played poorly/average. It wasn't like everyone else had the blinkers on, I've defended him plenty of times on here too, but called a spade a spade when he's played shit - and prior to last season he had played like a passenger ALOT.
Surprised you haven't been telling us that Enrique has mostly played shit to champion you're original predictions, despite him being great for most of the season.
As for Carroll, you seem to have bent the original theory on that one, from "he's a good player, he just doesn't fit the way we play", to "he'd be good for someone like Stoke".
Rewriting history eh!
[/quote]
I've lauded several of Adam's good performances on here Mark. Go back and have a look if you like, the Chelsea away game is one off the top of my head. Ditto Enrique, I've not been shy in praising him and not once in the past month when he's been below par have I criticised him. Not once.
As for Lucas, well again - you're free to search back through my posts on him. He was criticised regularly by me, in fact the crux of a lot of my frustration was that (despite his ability which I always felt he had, in complete contrast to every signle one of the rest of you) I thought he didn't do enough in games. Didn't take enough responsibility and was happy to coast though games without influencing them. It led to games where he was largely anonymous. I argued that for him to go from promising to quality, he had to 'do' more' And hey presto, look what fucking happened.
That's the difference between Doctor Mac and I and the point which I was alluding to above. As well as Adam has played in some games, he's been as bad - if not worse - in others. And where has DM been then? Nowhere. And I wasn't the only poster to notice by the way. It's all fair and well giving it the big one about how you've 'always had my eye on him, knew he'd be great rah rah rah...' when he's had an on-day. Get yourself a set of balls and post the rest of the time when he's pinging passes around like diarrhoea. No comment from that game the other week when in 60 minutes of football he managed to give the ball away 20 times? Fuck me, get real.
Carroll? I'm not sure what your point is. You've pulled up two different posts from me where I'm saying he doesn't work for us. Is there something I'm missing?
[/quote]
Ryan, you've barely had a good word to say about him. In the games where he hasn't been great I've admitted he was off, but I still think he has settled remarkably well, and done a good, sometimes even excellent job.
I would be a liar to come on and say he had played fantastic in a game where he had an average performance. My outlook, however, has been consistent. The problem with *you* Ryan, is that you had made a decision about him well before he arrived, and before you had too much of an idea about the player. Did you make one comment about his terrific assist against Wolves a few days ago? A game in which he had two assists and played really well? No- because that wouldn't fit well with your agenda to prove that you were always right about him, would it?
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