Halfway point review and ratings
- Thread starter rurikbird
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I mean, I think most of the players have been above average without being in the form of their life.
It’s hard to mark anyone low given we’re top of the league at the half-way stage, but we haven’t been overwhelmingly the best team in the league.
So I think the spread of ratings should be pretty narrow - I don’t think anyone’s been bad enough to be less than a 5 or good enough to be more than an 8.
In terms of halfway term report for the team compared to the rest of the Premier league. Its been truly excellent given that we are in the middle of a midfield rebuild and are still to really gel and find our form/shape. We've seen glimpses but the potential is massive for this team.
Our recruitment last summer can only been seen as fantastic so far, and lets hope we get some additions in January to set us up for the second part of the season.
OptaJoe
@OptaJoe
- A comparison of each team's points won in the Premier League this season, compared to the same stage last season:
+18 West Ham
+14 Aston Villa
+13 Liverpool
+11 Everton
+9 Bournemouth
+8 Wolves
+3 Tottenham Hotspur
-1 Brighton
-2 Manchester City
-3 Chelsea
-3 Nottingham Forest
-5 Crystal Palace
-7 Brentford
-8 Manchester United
-9 Newcastle United
-10 Arsenal
-10 Fulham
Our recruitment last summer can only been seen as fantastic so far, and lets hope we get some additions in January to set us up for the second part of the season.
OptaJoe
@OptaJoe
- A comparison of each team's points won in the Premier League this season, compared to the same stage last season:
+18 West Ham
+14 Aston Villa
+13 Liverpool
+11 Everton
+9 Bournemouth
+8 Wolves
+3 Tottenham Hotspur
-1 Brighton
-2 Manchester City
-3 Chelsea
-3 Nottingham Forest
-5 Crystal Palace
-7 Brentford
-8 Manchester United
-9 Newcastle United
-10 Arsenal
-10 Fulham
How about Klopp? @rurikbird?
Is he meeting expectations or exceeding expectations? @keniget?
I would give him 10… no, going to be mean and knock off 0.5 for not getting everyone to play with a little less heart and a lot more brain against United.
We’re so lucky to have him
Is he meeting expectations or exceeding expectations? @keniget?
I would give him 10… no, going to be mean and knock off 0.5 for not getting everyone to play with a little less heart and a lot more brain against United.
We’re so lucky to have him
What about our defense and the defensive side of the team? Its been a massive discussion point in regards to the RB position, the 6, our CBs, Robbos injury and our midfield constellation.
16 conceded in 19 games, 2 less then the next best team (Arsenal) and the best goal difference in the league.
Really fucking good so far.
16 conceded in 19 games, 2 less then the next best team (Arsenal) and the best goal difference in the league.
Really fucking good so far.
I don't think it's possible to overestimate Allisson's contribution to that.
No doubt, and he is the best goalkeeper in the World and has been amazing this season. But we still have conceded the third least shots on target and that is down to how we have improved defensively as a team.
West Ham sold their best player too
More a reflection of how poor they were last year, like us than anything else.
Part 3, forwards and manager:
======================
Salah 8 (26 games, 16 goals (4 pens), 8 assists). Statistically this is shaping up to be Mo’s 2nd or 3rd best season for LFC (tracking closely with 2021-22), but there is a more subtle change in his play - the “greedy Mo” is gone, he is embracing his role as a playmaker and chance creator for his younger forward partners, almost taking over some of Firmino’s role while still remaining our top goal-scorer. His professionalism and ability to set standards for younger players in training is touching Milner territory.
Diaz 5.5 (23 games, 5 goals, 2 assists) Lucho started the season productively with more than half of his goals and assists coming in the first 5 weeks - but even then it was obvious his overall play wasn’t quite all right. It’s a strange one - you can never fault his effort and attitude, but Diaz is just having a very underwhelming season despite staying injury-free and getting lots of playing time, barely creating any chances for teammates and having little to show for all his effort. Klopp still trusts him, but it’s clear he is not the same player he was pre-injury and probably won’t be effective until (and if) he gets his explosiveness back.
Jota 6.5 (18 games, 9 goals, 0 assists)
Played most of his games on the left and only finished the full 90 four times. Has been extremely efficient with his limited time on the pitch with a goal every 103 minutes on average, which partly mitigated the lack of production from Diaz. The quick sending-off after coming on against Spurs was a low point and his injury before the busy Christmas period hurt us.
Gakpo 6 (24 games, 7 goals, 3 assists)
One of my favourite players in the team, alongside Trent, but I cannot give him more than a “6.” The coaching staff keeping faith with Nunez up front for most of the important games meant that Gakpo had to relinquish his false 9 position where he did so well last season and was shuffled around the attacking line and even into midfield for some games. His ##’s have not been too bad considering (a goal or assist every 131 minutes, although most of these came in EL or EFL Cup), but so far it’s been a bit of a lost season in his development as he found himself being called upon here and there without a consistent role in the team. His attitude has remained top-notch as he waits for the attacking puzzle pieces to once again align in his favour.
Nunez 6.5 (27 games, 8 goals, 7 assists)
The most talked-about and divisive player in the team, alongside Trent, a real Jekyll-and-Hyde kind of footballer. The good: noticeable improvement in his ability to lead the line, better interplay and understanding with teammates (particularly Salah), passion, energy and workrate and those 2 goals against Newcastle. The bad - being a donkey when it comes to finishing, the most missed big chances in the league, which is unfortunately starting to look more like a consistent feature rather than an anomaly. The case for him once again moving to left wing, where goals can be a bonus rather than a necessity is growing stronger.
Klopp - I think it doesn’t make sense to grade the manager until the end of the season, when the long-term impact of his decisions will become clear for better or for worse. Did he wait too long to try Trent in midfield or should he have not encouraged that transition at all? Will MacAllister and Endo at #6 prove to be enough to compete for major trophies? Was trusting Nunez to lead the line a mistake? Will we regret not beating our main rivals in the first half of the season? We won’t know until the trophies are handed out in May.
The biggest change compared to the state of affairs when we first appeared at the top of the table (when I wrote my previous big-picture post) is that our defence seems to have found a sense of stability, despite losing Matip and now having no specialist left-backs too. The United game, despite the frustrating result, has been an important step in getting our counter-pressing to next level and we saw it in subsequent games as well. We now have the best defensive record in the league and this puts a sharper focus on still unresolved issues in attack - you get a sense that if one or two things improve in that department, this team could be truly great once again. To be in this position after what happened last season with so much enforced change over the summer is a testament to the work of Klopp and his coaching team.
Bring on the 2nd half!
======================
Salah 8 (26 games, 16 goals (4 pens), 8 assists). Statistically this is shaping up to be Mo’s 2nd or 3rd best season for LFC (tracking closely with 2021-22), but there is a more subtle change in his play - the “greedy Mo” is gone, he is embracing his role as a playmaker and chance creator for his younger forward partners, almost taking over some of Firmino’s role while still remaining our top goal-scorer. His professionalism and ability to set standards for younger players in training is touching Milner territory.
Diaz 5.5 (23 games, 5 goals, 2 assists) Lucho started the season productively with more than half of his goals and assists coming in the first 5 weeks - but even then it was obvious his overall play wasn’t quite all right. It’s a strange one - you can never fault his effort and attitude, but Diaz is just having a very underwhelming season despite staying injury-free and getting lots of playing time, barely creating any chances for teammates and having little to show for all his effort. Klopp still trusts him, but it’s clear he is not the same player he was pre-injury and probably won’t be effective until (and if) he gets his explosiveness back.
Jota 6.5 (18 games, 9 goals, 0 assists)
Played most of his games on the left and only finished the full 90 four times. Has been extremely efficient with his limited time on the pitch with a goal every 103 minutes on average, which partly mitigated the lack of production from Diaz. The quick sending-off after coming on against Spurs was a low point and his injury before the busy Christmas period hurt us.
Gakpo 6 (24 games, 7 goals, 3 assists)
One of my favourite players in the team, alongside Trent, but I cannot give him more than a “6.” The coaching staff keeping faith with Nunez up front for most of the important games meant that Gakpo had to relinquish his false 9 position where he did so well last season and was shuffled around the attacking line and even into midfield for some games. His ##’s have not been too bad considering (a goal or assist every 131 minutes, although most of these came in EL or EFL Cup), but so far it’s been a bit of a lost season in his development as he found himself being called upon here and there without a consistent role in the team. His attitude has remained top-notch as he waits for the attacking puzzle pieces to once again align in his favour.
Nunez 6.5 (27 games, 8 goals, 7 assists)
The most talked-about and divisive player in the team, alongside Trent, a real Jekyll-and-Hyde kind of footballer. The good: noticeable improvement in his ability to lead the line, better interplay and understanding with teammates (particularly Salah), passion, energy and workrate and those 2 goals against Newcastle. The bad - being a donkey when it comes to finishing, the most missed big chances in the league, which is unfortunately starting to look more like a consistent feature rather than an anomaly. The case for him once again moving to left wing, where goals can be a bonus rather than a necessity is growing stronger.
Klopp - I think it doesn’t make sense to grade the manager until the end of the season, when the long-term impact of his decisions will become clear for better or for worse. Did he wait too long to try Trent in midfield or should he have not encouraged that transition at all? Will MacAllister and Endo at #6 prove to be enough to compete for major trophies? Was trusting Nunez to lead the line a mistake? Will we regret not beating our main rivals in the first half of the season? We won’t know until the trophies are handed out in May.
The biggest change compared to the state of affairs when we first appeared at the top of the table (when I wrote my previous big-picture post) is that our defence seems to have found a sense of stability, despite losing Matip and now having no specialist left-backs too. The United game, despite the frustrating result, has been an important step in getting our counter-pressing to next level and we saw it in subsequent games as well. We now have the best defensive record in the league and this puts a sharper focus on still unresolved issues in attack - you get a sense that if one or two things improve in that department, this team could be truly great once again. To be in this position after what happened last season with so much enforced change over the summer is a testament to the work of Klopp and his coaching team.
Bring on the 2nd half!
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I've adjusted some players' ratings just now, because looking at the big picture rather than part by part the balance looks different.
Van Dijk 9.5 > 9
Matip 8 > 7
Quansah 10 > 7.5 (yes, I got too emotional, but Jarrell is still boss!)
MacAllister 7.5 > 7
Jones 6 > 6.5 (deserves to be slightly above Gravenberch on balance)
@Woland, @moron I only compared Premier League stats between Endo and Macca, which I think makes sense since EL group stage and Carabao games are distinctly 2nd tier. Macca largely dominates those, although we know not everything shows up on the stat sheet.
I'm myself very curious whether our newfound defensive solidity, which coincided with Endo becoming a starter at #6, will continue with Macca in his place or will we become a bit chaotic once again – my bet is on the former; I think Endo's improvement certainly helped, but it's the improvement in the overall team structure that has been the main factor. If we notice a clear downgrade in the next month, I'll be proven wrong, but I don't expect it to happen.
Fair enough, that's why I made the ratings more balanced after some thought. But of course expectations are built-in to some extent – Konate is overall probably still a stronger defender than Quansah, but he can have a lower rating for a season, I don't see that as a contradiction.
So now it’s:
Van Dijk 9/10
Alisson 8.5
Salah 8
Szoboszlai 8
Trent 7.5
Quansah 7.5
MacAllister 7
Gomez 7
Matip 7
Endo 7
Robertson 6.5
Tsimikas 6.5
Nunez 6.5
Jones 6.5
Jota 6.5
Elliott 6.5
Konate 6
Gravenberch 6
Gakpo 6
Diaz 5.5
Kelleher 5.5
Thiago 0
I’m happy with that.
Van Dijk 9.5 > 9
Matip 8 > 7
Quansah 10 > 7.5 (yes, I got too emotional, but Jarrell is still boss!)
MacAllister 7.5 > 7
Jones 6 > 6.5 (deserves to be slightly above Gravenberch on balance)
@Woland, @moron I only compared Premier League stats between Endo and Macca, which I think makes sense since EL group stage and Carabao games are distinctly 2nd tier. Macca largely dominates those, although we know not everything shows up on the stat sheet.
I'm myself very curious whether our newfound defensive solidity, which coincided with Endo becoming a starter at #6, will continue with Macca in his place or will we become a bit chaotic once again – my bet is on the former; I think Endo's improvement certainly helped, but it's the improvement in the overall team structure that has been the main factor. If we notice a clear downgrade in the next month, I'll be proven wrong, but I don't expect it to happen.
Fair enough, that's why I made the ratings more balanced after some thought. But of course expectations are built-in to some extent – Konate is overall probably still a stronger defender than Quansah, but he can have a lower rating for a season, I don't see that as a contradiction.
So now it’s:
Van Dijk 9/10
Alisson 8.5
Salah 8
Szoboszlai 8
Trent 7.5
Quansah 7.5
MacAllister 7
Gomez 7
Matip 7
Endo 7
Robertson 6.5
Tsimikas 6.5
Nunez 6.5
Jones 6.5
Jota 6.5
Elliott 6.5
Konate 6
Gravenberch 6
Gakpo 6
Diaz 5.5
Kelleher 5.5
Thiago 0
I’m happy with that.
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Very close to how I'd rate them except for :
Our defence is the best in the PL so far (which is often overlooked by fans and commentators alike, who rave about Arsenal's). No human is perfect so I'm happy to forgive the odd aberration.
VvD 9
Quansah 8
Konate 8 (a couple of MotM performances too if I'm not mistaken).
A little nit picking for midfield :
Endo 7.5
Jones 7
Gravy 7
Elliott 6,5
Attack I'd just update Mo to an 8 and Nunez to a 7 considering assists to Mo (without which he'd not have as high as rating) and that we are one of the highest scorers in the PL. Gakpo a 6,5. Diaz a huge disappointment though, a 5.
Ali followed by Salah have been our two most important players.
Quansah really impresses me with the ball, he is far more comfortable than Konate and is much faster than Matip. Is he at VVDs level, no, he isn't. However, scoring is takes into account age, experience and how he handles it, and he does it well beyond his years and I have factored that into the scoring.
Quansah really impresses me with the ball, he is far more comfortable than Konate and is much faster than Matip. Is he at VVDs level, no, he isn't. However, scoring is takes into account age, experience and how he handles it, and he does it well beyond his years and I have factored that into the scoring.
Hate half points. Make it out 20 if you want to go halves
Becker - 9
Kelleher - 4
Trent - 6
Robbo - 5
The Greek - 6
Konate - 6
Virgil - 8
Matip - 7
Quansah - 8
Gomez - 7
Mac - 7
Endo - 9
Dom - 8
Jones - 6
Gravy - 6
Elliott - 7
Salah - 9
Nunez - 6
Diaz - 5
Jota - 7
Gakpo - 6
Klopp - 9
Becker - 9
Kelleher - 4
Trent - 6
Robbo - 5
The Greek - 6
Konate - 6
Virgil - 8
Matip - 7
Quansah - 8
Gomez - 7
Mac - 7
Endo - 9
Dom - 8
Jones - 6
Gravy - 6
Elliott - 7
Salah - 9
Nunez - 6
Diaz - 5
Jota - 7
Gakpo - 6
Klopp - 9
Those are some pretty harsh marks out of 20.
Does your brain not compute halves?
5 is average..
Becker - 9
Kelleher - 6
Trent - 6.5
Robbo - 5.5
The Greek - 6.5
Konate - 6.5
Virgil - 9
Matip - 7
Quansah - 8.5
Gomez - 7.5
Mac - 7
Endo - 7.5
Dom - 8
Jones - 7.5
Gravy - 6.5
Elliott - 7
Salah - 8.5
Nunez - 6.5
Diaz - 5
Jota - 7
Gakpo - 6
Klopp - 8.5
Becker - 9
Kelleher - 6
Trent - 6.5
Robbo - 5.5
The Greek - 6.5
Konate - 6.5
Virgil - 9
Matip - 7
Quansah - 8.5
Gomez - 7.5
Mac - 7
Endo - 7.5
Dom - 8
Jones - 7.5
Gravy - 6.5
Elliott - 7
Salah - 8.5
Nunez - 6.5
Diaz - 5
Jota - 7
Gakpo - 6
Klopp - 8.5
Allison - 9 - always ace, hard to judge as some games pass him by but, delivers when needs to, best keeper in the World
Kelleher - 5 - reputation reduced this year, should have moved on
Gomez - 7 - dependable across the back 4, gets stick, shouldn't do
Trent - 9 - world class as ever, best RB in the World, best playmaker in the World (apart from KDB who's dead)
VVD - 9 - back to his best, which we feared might have gone, it hasn't
Matip - 6 - injured (as usual), good when he plays, will be gone soon
Konate - 7 - looks great when he plays, oft injured
Quansah - 8 - great prospect this lad, keep going
Robbo - 5 - unusually poor, then injured
Slob - 7.5 - ace start, looked world class, has dropped off somewhat but, it's his 1st season
Elliott - 7 - improving, there's a player there, not sure whether it's a top class one or not
MacAllister - 6.5 - hard to judge, looked awkward, then injured, hope he improves
Endo - 7 - slow start, growing into it
Curtis - 8.5 - a baller, this boy should be a shoo-in
Gravenbach - 7.5 - he will do it for us, there's quality there
Salah - 9 - good as ever
Gakpo - 7 - flashes of aceness, flashes of crap
Jota - 7 - injured but, when he plays, a Keegan goal threat
Diaz - 6.5 - a disrupted season for all sorts of reasons but, the quality is there
Nunez - 6 - agent of chaos but not much else. We all want him to be amazing but there's massive gaps there
Kelleher - 5 - reputation reduced this year, should have moved on
Gomez - 7 - dependable across the back 4, gets stick, shouldn't do
Trent - 9 - world class as ever, best RB in the World, best playmaker in the World (apart from KDB who's dead)
VVD - 9 - back to his best, which we feared might have gone, it hasn't
Matip - 6 - injured (as usual), good when he plays, will be gone soon
Konate - 7 - looks great when he plays, oft injured
Quansah - 8 - great prospect this lad, keep going
Robbo - 5 - unusually poor, then injured
Slob - 7.5 - ace start, looked world class, has dropped off somewhat but, it's his 1st season
Elliott - 7 - improving, there's a player there, not sure whether it's a top class one or not
MacAllister - 6.5 - hard to judge, looked awkward, then injured, hope he improves
Endo - 7 - slow start, growing into it
Curtis - 8.5 - a baller, this boy should be a shoo-in
Gravenbach - 7.5 - he will do it for us, there's quality there
Salah - 9 - good as ever
Gakpo - 7 - flashes of aceness, flashes of crap
Jota - 7 - injured but, when he plays, a Keegan goal threat
Diaz - 6.5 - a disrupted season for all sorts of reasons but, the quality is there
Nunez - 6 - agent of chaos but not much else. We all want him to be amazing but there's massive gaps there
Better than last year but not back to his best. He was decent, for sure.
This is spot on for me. Ratings much higher than most - as they should be, we're top of the PL and continue to progress in every competition. The only rating I'd score higher is Nunez (7) because he's contributed (goals aside) so much to our style and form and with his many assists for Mo.
No way Gravy deserves higher ratings than McCallister, Endo, Nunez, Gomez, Jota or even Elliot. Lad has showed tiny flashes of something, but that's it. All the rest have made significant contributions this season. 6 at the most for Gravy baby.
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