Pre Match - Forest (a) - Sat 12:30

[Brizzle]

I'm excited for this game, we are finding some form and settling into a new system. The atmosphere at the City Ground could be electric, but they are in a terrible run and that might make it less of a cauldron.

I expect us to continue a bit of rotation

------------------Ali----------------
Trent--Gomez--Virgil--Robbo
-----------Fabs----Thiago--------
Elliot------------------------Nunez
----------Salah----Bobby---------

 

[LeTallecWiz]

If Konate is back, I start him near Virgil and Gomez at RB.

 

[Frogfish]

If Konate is back, I start him near Virgil and Gomez at RB.

Didn't Klopp say he would be out for 10 days and then back in training? It may come just too early for him - I hope not. I want him in the team for Spurs (A).

 

[rurikbird]

Didn't Klopp say he would be out for 10 days and then back in training? It may come just too early for him - I hope not. I want him in the team for Spurs (A).

In that case step up Nate Phillips!

 

[Fabio]

Start Darwin. That's all I care about

 

[Frogfish]

Maybe Klopp will continue Robbo's slow reintroduction and give Tsimikas the start - he doesn't deserve to be dropped. Ditto Hendo, Fabs isn't pulling up trees and so I expect Hendo to start and Fabs to get 20-30 mins again.

And again with Carvalho, he worked very well alongside Nunez so definitely I'd start him again.

Hendo covers Trent or goes wide himself. Carvalho is mainly wide, with Bobby centre but closing down right, and working with the overlapping Tsimikas. Both Mo and Nunez can play slightly outside and move/break into the centre. Symmetry on both sides.

-------------------Ali----------------
Trent--Gomez--Virgil--Tsimikas
----------Hendo----Thiago--------
---------Firmino---Carvalho
---------Salah --- Nunez

 

[Squiggles]

Looking at the fixtures we've got a period of playing teams around the relegation zone, so now is the time we need the attack to start clicking into gear and dispatching for a comfortable 3 points. Forrest, Leeds, Southampton, Leicester, Villa are all approaching.

The challenge will be in keeping them fit and fresh with Jota and Diaz out, however some consistency in selection may well help the team adapt to Carvalho and Nunez, as well the new systems.

I would likely play the same team but with Robertson and Fabinho rotating in, and Henderson coming on at the sixty minute mark.

 

[Hansern]

Didn't Klopp say he would be out for 10 days and then back in training? It may come just too early for him - I hope not. I want him in the team for Spurs (A).

10 days from when it happened not from the last press conference. He'll be back in training this weekend.

 

[Hansern]

We really need defensive stability going in to these games that we are supposed to and have to win.

Alisson
Gomez Konate Virgil Robbo
Fabinho Thiago
Salah Carvalho
Firmino Nunez

Good solid defensive unit and enough creativity and pace upfront to dominate that Forest team.

 

[keniget]

I feel that Klopp is far more likely to continue trying to find a solution for TAA than drop him. He might think that a poor Forest (though they'll be fired up knowing we can be got at) is a good opportunity to let him play his way into form. Definitely interesting to see what he does.

I'd give Thiago a rest. We can ill afford an injury to him, particularly with CL crunch time coming up. I'd save Firmino's legs for Ajax too.

Alisson
TAA Gomez VVD Robertson
Elliot Fabinho Henderson
Salah Nunez Carvalho

 

[Brizzle]

10 days from when it happened not from the last press conference. He'll be back in training this weekend.

I expect Konate to next feature against Ajax. We don't need to rush him back as Gomez is playing well w/ Virgil.

 

[Hansern]

I expect Konate to next feature against Ajax. We don't need to rush him back as Gomez is playing well w/ Virgil.

Agreed, I think thats the realistic timeline for him as well.

 

[Buddha]

I expect Konate to next feature against Ajax. We don't need to rush him back as Gomez is playing well w/ Virgil.

I find it remarkable to witness the cognitive dissonance re Gomez and Trent.

Last night Trent was relatively sound with some good passing until the last minute when allowing a winger to ghost past him and set up a chance that was ultimately saved by Millie.

In the same match, Gomez gave away a penalty through his own inexplicable error, headed the ball across goal to give West Ham a good chance, and was again caught underneath a long cross that resulted in an excellent volleyed chance that wasn’t converted.

But somehow the general consensus is that Trent confirmed everyone’s worst fears and Gomez is playing well.

It’s absurd.

 

[tomasjj]

Gomez was better with more stability and organisation around him, not too strange when it comes to defending.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Gomez was better with more stability and organisation around him, not too strange when it comes to defending.

It's amazing how more stable he was - bar one brain fart which VvD cleaned up - against City ... I wonder why?
How was he as RB last time he played there?

 

[Buddha]

Gomez was better with more stability and organisation around him, not too strange when it comes to defending.

His challenge on Bowen was ridiculous - imagine if Trent had done that - and on the left side of the pitch. It literally had nothing to do with anything that gone before in a game we were comfortably controlling at the time.
But do still blame Trent in some implicit way…

 

[Frogfish]

I find it remarkable to witness the cognitive dissonance re Gomez and Trent.

Last night Trent was relatively sound with some good passing until the last minute when allowing a winger to ghost past him and set up a chance that was ultimately saved by Millie.

In the same match, Gomez gave away a penalty through his own inexplicable error, headed the ball across goal to give West Ham a good chance, and was again caught underneath a long cross that resulted in an excellent volleyed chance that wasn’t converted.

But somehow the general consensus is that Trent confirmed everyone’s worst fears and Gomez is playing well.

It’s absurd.

I haven't seen anyone, TBH, saying Gomez was anything but rash and I think everyone acknowledges he had a poor game, quite a come-down from MotM vs City. However Trent wasn't sound at all - his long passes were generally awful (and not advisable in that wind, witness his crossfield ball to Tsimikas putting him in trouble. He let people ghost past him, was often out of position (even when he was actually in the box!), didn't make the effort to get back when beaten and would have been to blame for yet another goal bar for Millie. On top of that he made zero contribution to the attack, his raison d'etre. Gomez was crap ... but so was Trent, again.

 

[Frogfish]

It's amazing how more stable he was - bar one brain fart which VvD cleaned up - against City ... I wonder why?
How was he as RB last time he played there?

He's often been an inconsistent player. Brilliant one day, awful the next match.

It was interesting listening to one of the studio guests (I forget which) yesterday who said that we shouldn't forget that although Gomez is 25 now his experience level is far lower because he's spent so much time out of the game with serious injuries. He also said that the last injury Gomez received should normally take 2 years to recover fully from.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

His challenge on Bowen was ridiculous - imagine if Trent had done that - and on the left side of the pitch. It literally had nothing to do with anything that gone before in a game we were comfortably controlling at the time.
But do still blame Trent in some implicit way…

Agree his tackle on Bowen was ridiculous - has anyone not said that it was stupid, rash and could have cost us 3 points?
Nope.
Trent was terrible on Benrama twice.
If you think Trent's defensive performances, in general, are ok this year - that's your right.
I think bar his horror show against Napoli (worst performance in a red shirt from him imo) and the last 50 minutes of last night, Gomez has been one of our better defenders - and he showed last week what he's capable of when he's on form.
If everyone was healthy, and we stick with a 4 man backline, I'd rather Gomez - Ibou - VvD- Robbo with TAA coming in later on in games until he regains his form as a defender. He's better than what he's showing.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

He's often been an inconsistent player. Brilliant one day, awful the next match.

It was interesting listening to one of the studio guests (I forget which) yesterday who said that we shouldn't forget that although Gomez is 25 now his experience level is far lower because he's spent so much time out of the game with serious injuries. He also said that the last injury Gomez received should normally take 2 years to recover fully from.

Yikes -

 

[Brizzle]

I find it remarkable to witness the cognitive dissonance re Gomez and Trent.

Last night Trent was relatively sound with some good passing until the last minute when allowing a winger to ghost past him and set up a chance that was ultimately saved by Millie.

In the same match, Gomez gave away a penalty through his own inexplicable error, headed the ball across goal to give West Ham a good chance, and was again caught underneath a long cross that resulted in an excellent volleyed chance that wasn’t converted.

But somehow the general consensus is that Trent confirmed everyone’s worst fears and Gomez is playing well.

It’s absurd.

I am talking more in the scenario of rushing Konate back to playing 90 mins vs. Gomez as a long term first choice CB. Do you think we should rush Konate back for Saturday morning even though there is a viable alternative?

One of the biggest arguments for rushing Konate back is to put Gomez at RB so my comment isn't even trying to push that narrative. However, there are fundamental issues to our game being caused by Trent this season.

 

[Buddha]

I haven't seen anyone, TBH, saying Gomez was anything but rash and I think everyone acknowledges he had a poor game, quite a come-down from MotM vs City. However Trent wasn't sound at all - his long passes were generally awful (and not advisable in that wind, witness his crossfield ball to Tsimikas putting him in trouble. He let people ghost past him, was often out of position (even when he was actually in the box!), didn't make the effort to get back when beaten and would have been to blame for yet another goal bar for Millie. On top of that he made zero contribution to the attack, his raison d'etre. Gomez was crap ... but so was Trent, again.

Check the post I was replying to…I was taking issue with Brizzle saying Gomez was ‘playing well’.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

I want a good ole trashing please.

5-0 win.

 

[tomasjj]

His challenge on Bowen was ridiculous - imagine if Trent had done that - and on the left side of the pitch. It literally had nothing to do with anything that gone before in a game we were comfortably controlling at the time.
But do still blame Trent in some implicit way…

That challenge was crazy from Gomez.
For me, I have nothing against Trent. Defending is about organisation though, and working as a unit, which requires trust. If someone doesn´t do the expected, it creates uncertainty.

Trent did fairly well I thought, and then there was a moment where WH could have scored, when they passed him. Such moments define games, just like Gomez´rashness. He was saved by Alli, Trent was saved by Milner.

 

[Frogfish]

Check the post I was replying to…I was taking issue with Brizzle saying Gomez was ‘playing well’.

Oops !
😱

 

[Brizzle]

Check the post I was replying to…I was taking issue with Brizzle saying Gomez was ‘playing well’.

If you look in general at Gomez's performances in our team this season I think he has in general 'played well'. The penalty was a terrible decision but all players are shit if we look at isolated bad decisions.

As mentioned my comment was in regard to whether we rush Konate back. Maybe you are in favour of that? I haven't seen you actual post an opinion just counter other comments with some whataboutery.

 

[Fabio]

Gomez was shite for most of the season i felt, but seemed to give an assured display against city. Now, it's easy to look at that and go "see? when he's not next to trent he's much better", and almost becomes a ready made excuse for any bad performance.

For me, they're both shite and prone to defensive lapses, and both seem a shadow of their former selves.

 

[Buddha]

If you look in general at Gomez's performances in our team this season I think he has in general 'played well'. The penalty was a terrible decision but all players are shit if we look at isolated bad decisions.

As mentioned my comment was in regard to whether we rush Konate back. Maybe you are in favour of that? I haven't seen you actual post an opinion just counter other comments with some whataboutery.

He’s been error prone in pretty much every game including those he’s been celebrated in. Granted against City in the main he did well enough (whilst VVD was impervious), but if Haaland had played to his general standard he’d have punished at least one of the three chances Gomez allowed for by allowing Haaland to drift off the back of him on a cross - his perennial Achilles heel. His other ‘good performance’ was against a sub par Rangers side that also included a late mistake that should have resulted in a Rangers goal. Against Napoli he was hooked due to an abject first half and last night his performance was error strewn again and the pen could have changed the course of the game needlessly.

As for your second point, my post was stating an opinion - what else was it? For clarity, I was making the point (using your post that Gomez was ‘playing well’) that there seems some cognitive dissonance against Trent for any and every mistake (1 last night) whilst Gomez generally escapes censure.
You subsequently went on about Konate and I have not yet replied. Of course, I wouldn’t want him rushed back if he isn’t ready. Against Forest we’ll have to work with what we have but fortunately they’re not pulling up any trees right now.

 

[binomial]

Gomez was shite for most of the season i felt, but seemed to give an assured display against city. Now, it's easy to look at that and go "see? when he's not next to trent he's much better", and almost becomes a ready made excuse for any bad performance.

For me, they're both shite and prone to defensive lapses, and both seem a shadow of their former selves.

They are both very error prone, just need to look at last night both West Ham's biggest chances came because of them....Gomez being clumsy going in the way he did on Bowen and then Benrahma breezing past Trent as if he weren't there to set up Soucek.

I would throw Ramsey and Ibou in as soon as they're back up to speed.

In previous seasons it felt like we had very little defending to do in games and all we had to do was "mop up" but this season teams are having a go at us which has exposed our big weaknesses in Trent and Gomez.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Neither Trent or Gomez are consistent enough defensively, Trent makes up for it when he's on form in an attacking sense, but he's not really doing that this season so far.

Gomez is not the solution to Trent. We need Trent to get his form back, hope Ramsay is good, or get someone else in.