Mignolet worries - part deux

[Molbystwin]

It's true our defense isn't settled but lets be clear about it Mignolet has made howlers (plural) just a little too occasionally and also in big games.

Can you honestly say he is a good keeper yet? In a style where we are supposed to play from the back surely distribution is key, also just in terms of experience/confidence Reina was a much much more commanding figure in the box. Don't misunderstand me after such an expensive outlay I don't want him replaced in the short term and will support him regardless when he is in the shirt....we are not talking Downing here...

And I am pleased to see that he is beginning to gather the ball more often after a save as opposed to his early season habit of spilling it back into dangerous areas. I haven't seen him make a save "for the cameras" for a while either which is a good thing.

His handling is OK but not great, he often parries what could be caught, he doesn't ooze assurance or calmness in fact he can look a little panicky. His kicking is not Bosnich by any stretch but I cant think of single occasion where he has caused problems to the opposition with it, his general distribution is OK but definitely not springing attacks... you could easily argue that he was as responsible as Toure for the dropped points at the Hawthorns...

He saved a penalty against Stoke, well done it gave us a MASSIVE boost to start the season on a high, and he has stopped some fierce shots, again well done, but in my eyes he has also flapped a lot parried badly and failed to come for numerous crosses while costing us points against Chelsea,City and West Brom away from home. I haven't done any analysis to be honest other than watch him and form an opinion but I think at best he has been pretty neutral for us points wise...

I know it's a harsh appraisal but....

I wanted more for 12M i'll be honest.

With hindsight everything is easy but I stick to my original gut feeling, I would have preferred to have kept Reina he is a better quality of keeper.

But ... who gives a fuck anyway.... we are in the race!!

 

[Whirly]

It's harsh to criticize a keeper for "costing us" points, that's going to land on every keeper in the world. It's a position where the margin for error is very fine, and there inevitably are going to be situations where it's the keeper's error.

In my mind, Mignolet has made fewer errors than Reina would have, and has earned us more points from his play. As far as the top teams in the league go, I would say he's been as good as any, bar Cech at times. It's easy to say his mistakes cost us points from watching all of our matches, but I think supporters of every club would say the same about their respective keepers. That's just how it is.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

I would take Reina back tbh...



either way our goalkeeping needs improving, goalies should stop shots they should also organise the defense and distribute well, Mignolet only does one of these 3 things well. At his best Reina did all 3 and IMHO even in his disinterested mode is a better keeper.

I think I read that last season, Reina came for 40+ crosses and dropped 10 of them. That's as bad as not coming for them at all. Mig came out for 47 and dropped 3 at Sunderland. Reina didn't cover himself in glory last season - I'd say Mig so far, is overall, about even with Reina last season. He's been better in some areas (shot stopping) but weaker in others (coming off his line early and distribution). He's (probably) cheaper though, so I think that would be a huge factor in the change.

Mig's at his first big club and he looks a bundle of nerves at times, probably from both the pressure of playing for us, and the stress of playing with a shaky defence in front of him. I think there will / should be more leeway given but if he doesn't improve next season though, I'm sure Rodgers won't be weak in the knees in handling him.

 

[Ryan]

Eh?
Yeah it's Flanagans fault or maybe Kenny's?
Is that better for you?

We gave away a throw in 40 yards from goal. A throw in. We give away about 50 a game I'd say. We had our entire team in shape and in position to defend that throw in, and had 8 men behind the ball. A cross came in, our keeper didn't come for it, and we conceded.

And you're laying every single bit of the blame (not some of it, or most of it, all of it - your words by the way, not mine) at the door of the person who gave away the throw.

You're a moron.

 

[nealmac]

Question now is , are his good shot stopping reflex saves winning us more points than his mistakes are losing ? .

I keep asking myself this question every time this debate materialises. And the simple answer is, yes. He's fucking saving our skin more often than not.

 

[Halmeister]

It's true our defense isn't settled but lets be clear about it Mignolet has made howlers (plural) just a little too occasionally and also in big games.

Can you honestly say he is a good keeper yet? In a style where we are supposed to play from the back surely distribution is key, also just in terms of experience/confidence Reina was a much much more commanding figure in the box. Don't misunderstand me after such an expensive outlay I don't want him replaced in the short term and will support him regardless when he is in the shirt....we are not talking Downing here...

And I am pleased to see that he is beginning to gather the ball more often after a save as opposed to his early season habit of spilling it back into dangerous areas. I haven't seen him make a save "for the cameras" for a while either which is a good thing.

His handling is OK but not great, he often parries what could be caught, he doesn't ooze assurance or calmness in fact he can look a little panicky. His kicking is not Bosnich by any stretch but I cant think of single occasion where he has caused problems to the opposition with it, his general distribution is OK but definitely not springing attacks... you could easily argue that he was as responsible as Toure for the dropped points at the Hawthorns...

He saved a penalty against Stoke, well done it gave us a MASSIVE boost to start the season on a high, and he has stopped some fierce shots, again well done, but in my eyes he has also flapped a lot parried badly and failed to come for numerous crosses while costing us points against Chelsea,City and West Brom away from home. I haven't done any analysis to be honest other than watch him and form an opinion but I think at best he has been pretty neutral for us points wise...

I know it's a harsh appraisal but....

I wanted more for 12M i'll be honest.

With hindsight everything is easy but I stick to my original gut feeling, I would have preferred to have kept Reina he is a better quality of keeper.

But ... who gives a fuck anyway.... we are in the race!!

All of that would be relevant if we were talking about the Reina of old, but Reina is declining now, and Mignolet is the better keeper.

As for expecting more for 12M? Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion and I can see why he stirs up such debate. But for me he's been more of a success than he has been a failure. He's there to stop things going in the back of the net first and foremost, and he does that well. Reina let in about 40% of the shots he faced over the last two years.

 

[Leo]

We gave away a throw in 40 yards from goal. A throw in. We give away about 50 a game I'd say. We had our entire team in shape and in position to defend that throw in, and had 8 men behind the ball. A cross came in, our keeper didn't come for it, and we conceded.

And you're laying every single bit of the blame (not some of it, or most of it, all of it - your words by the way, not mine) at the door of the person who gave away the throw.

You're a moron.

You've a very high opinion of yourself for a racist don't you.

 

[Farkmaster]

I thought you were joking Leo... It's a silly argument you are making.

 

[Rafiagra]

Mentioned it the other day but the club surely has to be looking at the goalkeeping coach situation, Achterberg came in in 2011, our goalkeeping during that time has been below par for the most part, that shouldn't be acceptable.

His kicking is a real joke, he rarely puts his laces through it when the option is just to get rid asap, seeing him side foot it up the middle of the pitch barely making the half way line is embarassing, he will need to improve a lot if he wants to be here long term, don't see why he can't.

This has to be a major part.

Everything wrong with Mignolet can be addressed through coaching, especially his technique with the ball at his feet.

 

[Hansern]

Taking Reina back? Fuck that. He's shite and finished. Have you seen him play for Napoli lately? Not very good.

As for Ming. Its typical that we make an issue out of something that isnt one.
Excellent shotstopper but needs to work on his distribution. Its getting better imho.
He's been mostly ace for us in his first season and I dont see a problem there at all in the long run.
He'll only get better and will work on his weak areas.
Need to be more vocal and aggressive when dealing with crosses. He's got the frame so I think that will come.

As for the goal yesterday. Should he have come out and claimed it? Maybe. But that doesnt excuse Skrtel having his back against where the ball is coming from or his awful attempt at clearing it.
If your keeper doesnt call it you attack it. Easy. If he hadnt worried so much about Bent and watched the ball a bit aswell he would have just booted it out.
Ming shares some of the blame but mostly Skrtel for me.

And we paid 9 mill.

 

[the count]

A lot is being made of Simon's poor distribution but for me that is a bonus rather than a prerequisite for a top keeper.
However the ability to dominate your penalty area, come out to claim crosses and being quick of the mark to intercept through balls should be part of being a top keeper.
Ming seems to be lacking somewhat in this department.

 

[Rafiagra]

Rodgers style of pay makes it a prerequisite though.

He does need to boss his area more, but it will also help him not to have dickheads in front of him fraying his nerves.

 

[Hansern]

We've made the most individual errors in the league leading to chances and goals.
Which isnt exactly helping out our goalkeeper.

 

[juniormember]

We've made the most individual errors in the league leading to chances and goals.
Which isnt exactly helping out our goalkeeper.

But I think I saw a stat that he's made the most errors amongst the goalies this season.
He'd certainly have a much better record if we had Hyppia, Carra, Arbeloa and Aurelio but he still has to work like hell to become better at claiming through balls, crosses, distributions and bad errors.

 

[Silver Sean]

He's average at this level. No better than Begovic, Boruc or any of those. Never convinced me that he's a step up from Pepe and if we progress over next two years I imagine we'll look for someone better.

 

[Hansern]

He's average at this level. No better than Begovic, Boruc or any of those. Never convinced me that he's a step up from Pepe and if we progress over next two years I imagine we'll look for someone better.

Hahaha! Are you serious? Boruc?!?! Average?!

 

[Hansern]

Pass From Belgian To His Left Hand Side
I’ve been wanting to write a post on Simon Mignolet for a while, with a particular focus on his passing as this is where the pro-Reina camp say he doesn’t match up to the illustrious Spaniard.

As the Belgian stopper logged 100% passing accuracy in his last run out at Fulham, this seemed as good a time as any to have a closer look at his distribution data.


The first noteworthy thing I spotted is that aside from Michel Vorm of Swansea (who averages 72.9% accuracy), no other goalkeeper in the English top flight this season has bettered Mignolet’s overall passing accuracy of 64.7%.

As much as his distribution gets criticised, it’s not as if there are too many better options out there (in the Premier League, at least). Perhaps as Liverpool fans we were spoiled by Reina’s fine passing?

For the purposes of this article, I shall be comparing Mignolet’s passing this season with Reina’s in 2012/13, so that both are playing under Rodgers. Firstly, let’s take a look at how the two keepers passing accuracy trends have gone.



Reina is ahead as you would expect, albeit it is clear that Mignolet is improving. However, when you look at the trend of what percentage of passes the stoppers have played long, you perhaps start to see why the Spaniard has the edge, and why the current Anfield custodian’s accuracy is on the rise.

Clearly this information isn’t surprising; a shorter pass will almost always be easier to complete than a long ball towards the opposition half, and the above graph certainly offers an explanation for why Reina has the higher pass accuracy.

So shouldn’t Liverpool be doing more to mitigate Mignolet’s distribution issue (as I suggested earlier in the season that they should)?

It actually appears that they are. I have split the 2013/14 season into two blocks of thirteen games, and plotted the same graphs as above.



The ‘long ball’ lines never cross, and neither do the passing accuracy lines, and the graphs illustrate how much shorter, and so obviously ‘better’ (or more accurate, at least) that Mignolet’s passing has become. The two spells break down overall like this:

First thirteen – 243 passes at 58.8% accuracy, with 57.6% long.

Last thirteen – 256 passes at 70.3% accuracy, with 50.0% long.

The last figures are particularly interesting, as they virtually match Reina’s efforts from the whole of last season: 71.1% accuracy, with 50.4% long.

The difference between the two thirteen game samples is perhaps best illustrated by the two passing maps below. Both games were at home, and both featured thirty-four passes by Mignolet, but the length of the pass is on the whole very different.

Mignolet’s long passing hasn’t particularly improved between the two games, it has just been needed far less often. It’s fair to note that the match on the left featured a pressing opponent whilst the match on the right did not, but I still think they illustrate that there’s no issue with the former Mackem’s short passing, so he simply needs better options and angles from his team mates

Regular readers will know that I compile pass combination heat maps after every league game, to see if any patterns of play or points of interest are revealed. I thought it would be interesting to make one purely for Mignolet, with each column representing a match this season.

It’s not possible to include the names of the other players involved, but for guidance the rows go (from top to bottom) from back four or five from right to left, then defensive midfielder, other midfielders and finally attackers (and then the subs).

With the knowledge that Mignolet has been playing a lower proportion of his passes long recently, it’s no surprise to see that there are fewer darker blocks towards the bottom of the chart as the season progresses.

We can also see that the keeper usually prefers to pass to the left centre back (as represented in the third row down). As he’s right footed, there’s no surprise there, but I wonder if the choice of which of the Reds’ two right footed centre backs has played on the left recently is impacted by this? I’d say Toure is more comfortable on the ball than Skrtel (not that he’s displayed it at key times lately!), so perhaps this is why Rodgers has elected to field the Ivorian on the left of the two. Just a theory, anyway.

As with all stats, context is everything. The numbers here don’t cover things like ability to pass when under pressure from opponents, or speed of release (which is particularly important for a counter attacking side like Liverpool). My gut instinct tells me that Reina is far superior in these aspects, and I doubt any of you would disagree.

But the figures demonstrate that Mignolet does have a very decent level of passing ability (far more than he was allowed to show at Sunderland), and Rodgers and his coaching staff deserve credit for improving him on this front.

 

[FoxForceFive]

He's missed the most important change imo.

Gerrard. He's actively taking the ball short from Mignolet to play long balls or pass short & remain available should he be needed so there's less passing back to put him under pressure.

 

[Hansern]

In other words he's improving his distribution (nearly to the same level of Reina) and we already know he much much better than Reina regarding saves made. In his first season.

Show some patience and Ming will become a great goalkeeper.

 

[the count]

I wish he would improve his command of the area.
That would improve our overall defence I reckon

 

[Hansern]

He was much better than Reina at commanding his area last season, so he has it in him. Maybe people forget that a goalkeeper needs to adapt aswell.

2012/13
Reina crosses caught 31 failed 10
Ming crosses caught 47 failed 3

 

[Delinquent]

Exactly. He should have cleared all.

I was 100% convinced by Mignolet up until about 2 months ago. Now, he worries me.

You're quite changeable really, aren't you?

 

[the count]

He was much better than Reina at commanding his area last season, so he has it in him. Maybe people forget that a goalkeeper needs to adapt aswell.

2012/13
Reina crosses caught 31 failed 10
Ming crosses caught 47 failed 3

Everyone keeps comparing him with the Reina from last season.
I don't think there are many that would argue that Pepe needed replacing and Mignolet is a step up from him.
I simply think that it is not a big enough step up.
i want a keeper who is as good as Pepe was in his first couple of seasons with us.
Mignolet might get there but he has a distance to go in a few departments.

 

[Hansern]

Which is why he should be given time?
He's an improvment on Reina was my point, and lets see how he can develop. Imho he can get much better and will improve even more with a good solid defence infront of him.

The biggest fault of supporters these days is giving up to easy on a player.
I did it myself not to long ago with Flanno. Some said Willian was shite after 1-2 games. Its insane.

 

[Gary25]

You're quite changeable really, aren't you?

Ok then, Mignolet's perfect and hasn't made any mistakes.

Happy now?

 

[Dahuge]

I'll be honest he worries me, we are all concerned about our fullbacks but imo MIng is as big a concern.

He needs to dominate his box bith physically and verbally. He doesn't and I don't think he ever will either, so we need better.

Great shot stopper though.

 

[Red Mullet]

Mignolets mistakes means we have to dig in and score in the very very last minute, via a penalty as well. 'Builds confidence'.

*runs*

 

[Red Mullet]

Ok then, Mignolet's perfect and hasn't made any mistakes.

Happy now?

*runs back in*

That's another change.

*runs, again*

 

[Hansern]

I'm not worried. Yes he has some areas he needs to develop but that is doable.
Great shotstopper, which is the most important thing in the end, and has improved his distribution.

Still young for a goalkeeper and in his first year at a top club. He'll get some time from me to develop and will of course make some mistakes a long the way.
Being 4th and in with a shout of the title I've got other worries...

 

[Silver Sean]

Hahaha! Are you serious? Boruc?!?! Average?!

He is average AT THIS LEVEL. He is nowhere near a pre-injury Cech or a Schmeichel. And that's what we should be looking for. You have actually seen how piss poor his communication has been when conceding some of the shit goals we have done this season?