How good a captain was he?
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Xabi Alonso on the qualities that make Steven Gerrard an all-time great -
“He’ll absolutely be remembered as one of the greats; for me, he is already one of them. There are so many things [that are good about Steven Gerrard]. He is so inspirational. In the key moments he has that difference – a spark that is difficult to define.”
As most have noted hes never been a natural captain in the sense that hes not vocal enough and preferred to let his ability do the talking for him but that only works occasionally as a motivator for the group. He dragged us out of the shit individually more times than I care to remember but thats generally the role of game changing players who score goals. I understand why he wanted to be captain, what kid growing up wouldnt want to captain his boyhood club, but I always thought Sami should have had it a while longer and allowed Stevie to just get on with learning the game. He seemed to be made captain because he was our best player rather than because he was suited to the job. This is a trend in modern football you see more and more making the captains role somewhat obsolete, its obviously an ego thing, look at Argentina with Messi as captain mopping around the field never uttering a word for 90 mins while Mascherano actually does all the stuff a captain is meant to do. It was a little similar at times watching Stevie wear the armband while Carra actually performed the captains role organising the team, standing up to opposition players, talking to the ref, telling his team mates when they needed to get their finger out.
Was that before the cunt said Stevie wasn't a "top top player"
Ah but Gerrard allowed Sturridge to take a penalty!
His intelligence in forward play has always been that good that it can bring the best out of the strikers ahead of him.
The fact that almost every (maybe every, jury's out on suarez) striker that left didn't replicate their form without him behind them isn't a coincidence.
Please don't be facetious. You said he didn't inspire players.... I'm pretty sure he did, Suarez's quotes alone prove that.
after I think....
Good point, he was an excellent foil for a striker who wanted to run in behind, his combination of running from deep positions, accuracy shooting from distance and ability to split defences wide open with a pass created so much space for strikers as the opposing team never knew whether to push up and try close him out thereby opening up space for the likes of Torres/Owen/Suarez to exploit or drop off and risk giving him the space to push forward and start hammering shots from distance.
I dont think Suarez will do anything near as well at Barca as he did with us but thats not necessarily Gerrard related, there are other reasons why Torres and Owen dropped off dramatically after they moved on, mainly injuries
Thing is, there has always been 'other reasons' used to excuse it.
Personally I think it's happened too often & the drop in form too dramatic to think it's not connected though.
Even if it's only a few extra percent he gives them, nevertheless, Steven Gerrard knows how to get strikers scoring.
That's why it's a shame his ego/drive/ocd personality won't let him stay benched for 60 mins & come on as an AM for the last 30. I watch Lampard now & think Stevie could do that every game for short periods for us.
100% agree. Rodgers has not managed him well.
You'd make a good lawyer, cos I didn't say that at all.
I doubt Rodgers is to blame, cos I can't see Gerrard sitting out the majority of matches for any manager, even Kenny,i just don't think he can do it.
No person who needs that much control over himself that he must wash his hands constantly could manage to watch his side perform without him for so long every week. It's his personality/ocd, whatever you want to call it.
Thats harsh, I think last season he constructed the team with Gerrard as the fulcrum, it gave us tremendous options going forward but left us a little too porous at the back unfortunately and coincided with Gerrards best for in 5 years or so. Unfortunately our attacking line up is depleted and other teams have worked it out our tactics and Gerrard has become too easy to neutralise making him something of a liability. Lampard has played the last decade surrounded by much better players and he was phased out at Chelsea before moving to City where hes accepted a bit part role.
Gerrard should probably thank Rodgers for the indian summer he enjoyed last year as opposed to being blamed for not extending Stevies career further
This thread pisses me off.
"I'm gutted he's leaving. I'm sad. One of the greatest....Blah blah blah"
"Hey, let's create a thread and debate about Gerrard's qualities/abilities. Let's talk about his weaknesses." (even though it's been done to death)
"No, no...i'm being objective. I love Stevie, but let's talk about his weaknesses...."
"I'm gutted he's leaving. I'm sad. One of the greatest....Blah blah blah"
"Hey, let's create a thread and debate about Gerrard's qualities/abilities. Let's talk about his weaknesses." (even though it's been done to death)
"No, no...i'm being objective. I love Stevie, but let's talk about his weaknesses...."
What exactly would you prefer?
Fwiw stevie, after fowler, was the first Liverpool idol I ever had, & the only one I didn't meet in 'normal' circumstances off the pitch to ruin that persona, so when I say I'm gutted, I really fucking mean it.
However I can be objective. I knew Stevie & his faults. I sat yards from the pitch whilst he scowled at players who i knew needed an arm round them.
Conversely I sat there when he dragged mediocre players to a level they would never have seen & dragged a team into my finals they barely deserved with sheer spirit alone.
I'm gutted his last game won't be for us, but I'm not myopic enough to think it's all one sided or necessarily all a bad thing.
Fwiw stevie, after fowler, was the first Liverpool idol I ever had, & the only one I didn't meet in 'normal' circumstances off the pitch to ruin that persona, so when I say I'm gutted, I really fucking mean it.
However I can be objective. I knew Stevie & his faults. I sat yards from the pitch whilst he scowled at players who i knew needed an arm round them.
Conversely I sat there when he dragged mediocre players to a level they would never have seen & dragged a team into my finals they barely deserved with sheer spirit alone.
I'm gutted his last game won't be for us, but I'm not myopic enough to think it's all one sided or necessarily all a bad thing.
Hmm i dunno. Timing, I guess ?
Look, I'm not trying to be all self-righteous and say these sort of threads are wrong. I understand where you lot are coming from but it still pisses me off and upsets me. Don't ask me why. Maybe I'm frustrated. Frustrated and upset that someone whom I grew up adoring is leaving us. Perhaps we've taken him for granted, that it's easier or more interesting to discuss his shortcomings rather than his tributes.
I'm actually happy that Stevie's leaving. Better leave now than face the threat of being hounded out one day. Happy that he no longer has to carry that heavy burden on his shoulders anymore. People forget that even Captain Marvel has feelings too. It's so easy to criticize but until you are in his position, we won't understand the pressure, the burden and the immense responsibility he has had to carry. And Stevie's walked the talk for so consistently long, that he deserves all the accolades. I think he's been under-rated for the last few years, and the media has played a big part in that too.
Look, I'm not trying to be all self-righteous and say these sort of threads are wrong. I understand where you lot are coming from but it still pisses me off and upsets me. Don't ask me why. Maybe I'm frustrated. Frustrated and upset that someone whom I grew up adoring is leaving us. Perhaps we've taken him for granted, that it's easier or more interesting to discuss his shortcomings rather than his tributes.
I'm actually happy that Stevie's leaving. Better leave now than face the threat of being hounded out one day. Happy that he no longer has to carry that heavy burden on his shoulders anymore. People forget that even Captain Marvel has feelings too. It's so easy to criticize but until you are in his position, we won't understand the pressure, the burden and the immense responsibility he has had to carry. And Stevie's walked the talk for so consistently long, that he deserves all the accolades. I think he's been under-rated for the last few years, and the media has played a big part in that too.
I think that's maybe a little bit too simplistic. I suspect often just having him on the pitch alongside them, knowing how effective he was off it as a captain and on it as a player, was a big lift. Not however in an organisational, or motivational when down, capacity though.
It's pretty hilarious how the superfans constantly question his leadership qualities (most times, simply by basing it on his body language as if suddenly you all are experts on it) when almost every player and manager who's had the acquaintance of Stevie commends him for being a leader on and off the pitch.
Leaders are elected, and made. They were not born into the role.
3 Liverpool managers recognized Stevie's leadership and made him captain. So did the England manager.
Your teammates would also want and agree to be led by you. Stevie's led many big names before and have earned their respect along the way. Big egos like Suarez, Balo and Rooney have all commended Stevie's leadership.
So that would mean, for the last 10 years or so, hundreds of players have probably elected Stevie to be their leader and were willing to be led by him. Leaders have willing followers and Stevie's led hundreds.
Ever been in that situation before ? Anyone ?? Where are the tough ones ? The ones who think they know a thing about leadership ?
You all know nothing about true leadership.
Leaders are elected, and made. They were not born into the role.
3 Liverpool managers recognized Stevie's leadership and made him captain. So did the England manager.
Your teammates would also want and agree to be led by you. Stevie's led many big names before and have earned their respect along the way. Big egos like Suarez, Balo and Rooney have all commended Stevie's leadership.
So that would mean, for the last 10 years or so, hundreds of players have probably elected Stevie to be their leader and were willing to be led by him. Leaders have willing followers and Stevie's led hundreds.
Ever been in that situation before ? Anyone ?? Where are the tough ones ? The ones who think they know a thing about leadership ?
You all know nothing about true leadership.
I might be way off but feels like a lot of the greats benefitted by playing in great winning teams under great management.
It's like that quote about Keegan - can a captain inspire that sort of thing on his own or is it an environmental thing that is comprised of lots of things?
Is Gerrard the greatest captain we've ever had? No, he isn't and he's very flawed in some respects but it does feel like he gotten a rough ride.
It's like that quote about Keegan - can a captain inspire that sort of thing on his own or is it an environmental thing that is comprised of lots of things?
Is Gerrard the greatest captain we've ever had? No, he isn't and he's very flawed in some respects but it does feel like he gotten a rough ride.
Exactly.
You're talking bollocks. Leadership comes in many forms; family, office, work, entrepreneurs, leading a group on a mountain climb (as an example of an extreme sport/pastime), or even in an emergency ... I'm sure there are many people here who know exactly what leadership is and means. You've been rather supercilious in this thread, time to get down off that horse and return to your normal persona.
actually that's exactly my point. We all have been entrusted with leadership roles one way or another and we should know better - it's one thing being a leader but it's not easy being a good leader, let alone a great one.
Hold on, your arguments in this thread have been based on the public utterances from team mates and ex-team mates. Gerrard himself has paid tribute to Rodgers' handling of this situation and his man management in general. You're being selective with the quotes.
Keni's proper bang on here. Of course we can talk about his indivuality and how much of an effect that's had on his captaincy skills, fair enough, he's not the greatest captain we've had, but in many respects, his quietness and his so called inability to get players fired up, goes completely out the window, when you look at the amount of massive games he's swung for us - that in itself inspires confidence and the ability to raise a game. There might be some grey area there between the great player and great captain argument, but the end result is we're still one of the most successful English sides, in terms of trophies won, since the turn of the century. And as captain, he has been pivotal to that.
Leave the rest be - 10 trophies, 17 seasons, 180 goals - As captain and talisman, that's the end result. Strikers are judged on goals, managers are judged on trophies. No one will remember a fading last season where his influence didn't quite have people punching above their weight and the zip had gone from his game. People will look at the history books and see one of our greatest players who led us to relatively great success and played a part in some fantastic partnerships, some of the greatest games we've ever seen and a few of our most famous victories.
Legend. The rest just pales into insignificance.
Leave the rest be - 10 trophies, 17 seasons, 180 goals - As captain and talisman, that's the end result. Strikers are judged on goals, managers are judged on trophies. No one will remember a fading last season where his influence didn't quite have people punching above their weight and the zip had gone from his game. People will look at the history books and see one of our greatest players who led us to relatively great success and played a part in some fantastic partnerships, some of the greatest games we've ever seen and a few of our most famous victories.
Legend. The rest just pales into insignificance.
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