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How good a captain was he?

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leftpeg

leftpeg

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I guess there are two types of captain...those who lead by influence and those who coach and instruct on the pitch. Terry (*spits*) does a bit of both as did Bryan Robson and for us Hansen and Souness also fall into this category. But what about Gerrard? He's never struck me as a natural leader or organiser and on occasion his body language on the pitch has been pretty lousy. I suspect he got and subsequently held the armband because it was clear from the off that for as long as he was at the club he would set the levels for the team...if he played well, we stood a chance, if he didn't, we didn't.

So he's the best I've ever seen in his position, but I would put him no higher than 3rd on my list of Liverpool captains of my time.
 
leftpeg said:
I guess there are two types of captain...those who lead by influence and those who coach and instruct on the pitch. Terry (*spits*) does a bit of both as did Bryan Robson and for us Hansen and Souness also fall into this category. But what about Gerrard? He's never struck me as a natural leader or organiser and on occasion his body language on the pitch has been pretty lousy. I suspect he got and subsequently held the armband because it was clear from the off that for as long as he was at the club he would set the levels for the team...if he played well, we stood a chance, if he didn't, we didn't.

So he's the best I've ever seen in his position, but I would put him no higher than 3rd on my list of Liverpool captains of my time.
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Average!
Cheers
 
He's a shoo-in for the All-Time XI as a player, but as a skipper I wouldn't put him anywhere near as high as 3rd, for the reasons you list above, which not only didn't lift others around him but IMO sometimes went the opposite way and reduced their effectiveness. Obv.his individual displays often made up the difference, sometimes with astounding results, but specifically as a skipper he wasn't even close to the top of the list for me.
 
Judge Jules said:
He's a shoo-in for the All-Time XI as a player, but as a skipper I wouldn't put him anywhere near as high as 3rd, for the reasons you list above, which not only didn't lift others around him but IMO sometimes went the opposite way and reduced their effectiveness. Obv.his individual displays often made up the difference, sometimes with astounding results, but specifically as a skipper he wasn't even close to the top of the list for me.
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Come to think of it, we've had some great players who should never have been captain...Rush, Fowler and Barnes spring to mind. Whelan was a good captain of a team in decline. Ince was the obvious choice in a very average team; Redknapp remains one of the most over-rated players I've ever seen in a Liverpool shirt so should never have been captain. Hughes, Neal, Thommo and Sami were obvious choices in their day. I was always surprised that Nicol and Kenny before him never took the armband more often than they did. And Carragher would have been a great captain.
 
The other answer should be "too soon, man. too soon." This thread or topic has been done countless times on here before. Most people see the shortcomings in Steven Gerrard. Now is the time for praising, reminiscing, deifying, and sharing stories. Leave his wounds for the scum fans to pick at.
 
Lucas said:
The other answer should be "too soon, man. too soon." This thread or topic has been done countless times on here before. Most people see the shortcomings in Steven Gerrard. Now is the time for praising, reminiscing, deifying, and sharing stories. Leave his wounds for the scum fans to pick at.
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You know it's an Internet forum where like-minded people gather to debate and discuss their common interest? And you know 'He' isn't reading any of this?
 
leftpeg said:
You know it's an Internet forum where like-minded people gather to debate and discuss their common interest? And you know 'He' isn't reading any of this?
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Hey, I didn't say it should be the only answer. Go ahead chat it up about how mediocre of a captain he is. I'll be thinking about the screamers. And the sad fact he'll probably never score a worldy for us again.
 
It didn't prove Rafa was a tactical genius but surely it proves he was an amazing captain? Not many captains could of had the influence, drive and passion that he did in that game? Unlike the fa cup final he drove the team and fans on rather than an individual display of brilliance, he was simply awe inspiring.
 
Depends how you define a captain I guess. When it mattered, Olympiakos, West Ham, Milan, etc, he led by example in crucial moments, but in terms of driving the team on and dictating to and getting everyone together as a unit, he was such a brilliant individual player and he was so used to carrying us at times, I don't think it was ever instilled into him, how to talk to the team from front to back and get them "as one". Like White-sox says though, in those big games he was awe inspiring and he lifted everyone with his ability to drag out that extra 100% no one else had.
 
Fabio said:
Dragging people out the shite doesn't make a good captain, it makes a great player

Motivating those around you to perform at the best of their abilities makes you a great captain
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So is that for or against Gerrard? I think he does both....
 
For what it's worth a football captain is nowhere near as 'important' as a rugby or cricket captain.
 
Fabio said:
Against

He hasn't done the second one with anywhere near a level of consistency, hence some of abject displays over the last few years.
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Not to play devils advocate but pretty sure some of the greatest players to play with us over the past few years have attributed their success with their captain. Most notably Torres and Suarez. Not to mention the influence over Sterling, Henderson, Sturridge and others...
 
white-sox said:
Not to play devils advocate but pretty sure some of the greatest players to play with us over the past few years have attributed their success with their captain. Most notably Torres and Suarez. Not to mention the influence over Sterling, Henderson, Sturridge and others...
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He's an instrumental player, with incredible skill set. That doesn't mean they're referring to his captaining ability

Every quote I've seen is about Gerrards "passion" or his ability. Not his leadership skills
 
His team mates are bound to say the right thing. It keeps the fans sweet and far, far more importantly for them, it keeps Gerrard sweet.

As for former team mates, did you believe everything Torres and Suarez ever said? Especially the bits about not wanting to leave the club?
 
I have to be honest. Today of all days I don't care how good a captain he is/was. I'm just thinking of STEVIE GERRARD. BIG AND FUCKING HARD!. IMMENSE for 17 years. Don't care what he did or didn't do off the field. Don't care what any other fucker supporting other team says. Just IMMENSE for LFC for 17 year. Will be lucky to see his likes again.
 
He was brilliant at leading by example & dragging those around him up a gear.

Problem is he was only good at that occasionally. Those occasions mattered, of course, but most of the time he just seemed angry that those around him couldn't give as much or perform as well as he expected, & it showed, often making the other players shrink into his shadow.

Even when at his best he had dips in form & that meant the rest of the team would often perform badly when he did, & conversely, perform with more freedom when he wasn't in the side.

He's grown into the role a little, but bit enough. When players start arguing with the ref for example, ferdinand at Utd would be straight over, move their player away & talk to the ref, Stevie often just scowled at a distance whilst a player got a card (mascher against Utd (i think) springs to mind) instead of trying to help. He's tried to do that more but even last season he didn't stop suarez getting himself in trouble by answering back to the officials.

That's a captain's job too.

Running round the pitch & herding players into position is too, passing the managers comments on, patting players on the back, cheering them on after they miss a shot etc. Henderson does all of those things, which is why I think he's more of a natural choice for captain.

In summary, Stevie is a captain who led by example, so when off form, he didn't lead.

I personally think we need a captain who can even lead when he's performing badly himself, as that's what great captain's do.
 
Jack D Rips said:
I have to be honest. Today of all days I don't care how good a captain he is/was. I'm just thinking of STEVIE GERRARD. BIG AND FUCKING HARD!. IMMENSE for 17 years. Don't care what he did or didn't do off the field. Don't care what any other fucker supporting other team says. Just IMMENSE for LFC for 17 year. Will be lucky to see his likes again.
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We won't see his likes again. Just won't.
 
I've just finished John Keith's book 'Paisley'. Apparently when Keegan announced he was leaving mid-season Bob thought it was a strange decision because at Liverpool it was impossible to be out of form for long periods. If you were good enough there'd be enough quality and leaders in the side to make up for any short-term failings without the player concerned having to be dropped. Compare that to Gerrard who, despite all of his sheer brilliance, doesn't seem to be there when struggling team mates need him the most.
 
8150__3920__xgerrard_ls-5_970X582.jpg
 
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