The other option is for FSG to float the club.
Going up for sale within days
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At least we get an apology.. and early too. More than most clubs will get.
All six clubs have apologised and you can believe them if you want but trust can't be repaired so easily in my eyes.
I don't get why so many think fan ownership is such pie in the sky thinking?
We have one of the biggest fan bases in the world. Could some sort of trust not be created which makes this a reality. More buy in = more decision power. Or even listing on the stock exchange and opening it up to the public.
I'm not talking about fans making daily decisions - a board is appointed to do that.
Or even a yearly global transfer fund, where fans send in £10 towards big signings. I would. Multiply that by a few million. I realise many fans wont be able to give, but millions will.
Ok, it's starting to sound pie in the sky
We have one of the biggest fan bases in the world. Could some sort of trust not be created which makes this a reality. More buy in = more decision power. Or even listing on the stock exchange and opening it up to the public.
I'm not talking about fans making daily decisions - a board is appointed to do that.
Or even a yearly global transfer fund, where fans send in £10 towards big signings. I would. Multiply that by a few million. I realise many fans wont be able to give, but millions will.
Ok, it's starting to sound pie in the sky
I can see them selling now. It's an open secret that, whist we've not been openly marketed for sale, we would be available at the right price. I think they've been hanging on in the hope of boosting the value of the club through enhanced TV rights - first a different revenue share on overseas TV (success), then Project Big Picture (fail), now the ESL (epic fail).
I'm sure this will come back in some form in a few years time as the "business rationale" for it is strong but the level of opposition from "stakeholders" (do they mean us?) has been so strong that it will need seismic changes in the game for it to ever be viable. So do you hold on to an "asset" in the hope you can succeed in driving through something in a few year's time that you've just failed massively to do?
So from FSG's perspective, they've not had any dividends from us since they bought the club (i.e. we're not throwing off cash profit) and the prospect of a huge windfall from a super valuation boost is unlikely. They'll do whatever they can to enhance the value in the short-term (Anfield Road expansion will help, but not massively, especially with on-going pressure on ticket prices) but I suspect the growth in value of LFC as an asset is now pretty much near its peak, especially if media deal growth starts to tail off (and the ESL incident will harm Champions League deals, at the very least).
So I think they'll sell, but not in a hurry - 12-18 months maybe. Even if the key players at FSG wanted to keep LFC, the rest of the shareholders will probably think it's more trouble than it's worth and they'll take a nice tidy profit on the bargain basement price they paid in the first place, thanks very much, and on to the next investment.
I just hope they haven't pissed off Klopp so much that he's considering his options elsewhere.
I'm sure this will come back in some form in a few years time as the "business rationale" for it is strong but the level of opposition from "stakeholders" (do they mean us?) has been so strong that it will need seismic changes in the game for it to ever be viable. So do you hold on to an "asset" in the hope you can succeed in driving through something in a few year's time that you've just failed massively to do?
So from FSG's perspective, they've not had any dividends from us since they bought the club (i.e. we're not throwing off cash profit) and the prospect of a huge windfall from a super valuation boost is unlikely. They'll do whatever they can to enhance the value in the short-term (Anfield Road expansion will help, but not massively, especially with on-going pressure on ticket prices) but I suspect the growth in value of LFC as an asset is now pretty much near its peak, especially if media deal growth starts to tail off (and the ESL incident will harm Champions League deals, at the very least).
So I think they'll sell, but not in a hurry - 12-18 months maybe. Even if the key players at FSG wanted to keep LFC, the rest of the shareholders will probably think it's more trouble than it's worth and they'll take a nice tidy profit on the bargain basement price they paid in the first place, thanks very much, and on to the next investment.
I just hope they haven't pissed off Klopp so much that he's considering his options elsewhere.
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The problem that FSG have got are the problems beamrider has outlined. If there's no growth potential noone is arsed investing - in normal business. The difference here is possibly some dick swinging billionaire would want it just to show off, but as an asset or company it doesn't make much sense.
Or someone who got a PPE contract from Boris
Just checked my portfolio, initially investment of about £20 is up to £75 so, as they say in the states, I'm in the ballpark financial to make this deal happen.
Make sure you get legal advice from Dantes before doing anything.
It’ll be handy to have someone to sue for bad advice.
Sympathy is certainly not something I have for FSG.
Though I can somewhat understand their frustrations.
They came into football thinking that FFP was an actual thing and that if they played the moneyball thing well enough with Liverpool, they would be be able to compete on a level playing field.
Now FFP is an obvious joke and UEFA and FIFA operate only to protect their self interest and don't seem to care much for the welfare of individual clubs, bar a select few who seem to have special access, and certainly they don't care for players welfare.
Similar criticisms can be levelled at the Premier league.
Now I realise that FSG's only concern is the financial bottom line and us fans only get fed platitudes at best.
But for people wanting them out what do expect from a new owner. I certainly don't want to be owned by some middle eastern state with a dodgy human rights record or an equally dodgy businessman using us as a plaything and a money laundering facility. There can't be too many Liverpool mad multi billionaires out there.
I am thinking at present along the lines of the old adage about "better the devil you know" FSG are definitely devils but the problem for us is there are probably worse devils out there.
Though I can somewhat understand their frustrations.
They came into football thinking that FFP was an actual thing and that if they played the moneyball thing well enough with Liverpool, they would be be able to compete on a level playing field.
Now FFP is an obvious joke and UEFA and FIFA operate only to protect their self interest and don't seem to care much for the welfare of individual clubs, bar a select few who seem to have special access, and certainly they don't care for players welfare.
Similar criticisms can be levelled at the Premier league.
Now I realise that FSG's only concern is the financial bottom line and us fans only get fed platitudes at best.
But for people wanting them out what do expect from a new owner. I certainly don't want to be owned by some middle eastern state with a dodgy human rights record or an equally dodgy businessman using us as a plaything and a money laundering facility. There can't be too many Liverpool mad multi billionaires out there.
I am thinking at present along the lines of the old adage about "better the devil you know" FSG are definitely devils but the problem for us is there are probably worse devils out there.
At least there will be entertainment next door to the Four Seasons.
All those replies and this still hasn’t been answered.
Great post. Not excusing FSG on the current ESL shenanigans. But there should have been a similar level of outrage among fans, politicians, present and past footballers when City and PSG made a mockery of FFP.
That's not what happened though. The super league would have doubled or tripled the revenues. So the valuation of their asset would have gone up by a lot if it went through. That's fine, fair play to them. But it went further. I'll spare you the technical maths, but when you value an asset, you take into account the volatility or risk in those returns. The more up and down they could be, the less the asset is worth. So those super league revenues would be great when you're in it, and absolutely fuck all when you're out. So if you do the maths, guaranteeing that you're in it come rain or shine means there is zero volatility attached to those future revenues, which when you plug into the valuation model for liverpool fc returns a gigantic figure.
Don't get it twisted, they deliberately set it up as a closed shop in order to boost the valuation of the club, so they could be even richer when they sold it in a few years. That was their choice. They could have set up the exact same super league without the anti-competition closed shop bullshit, and it would have been totally fine with us. They didn't, because they wanted money rather than give a single fuck about the fans or the sport. That's what happened.
Finally, someone on here talking sense.
It's my ability to detach my emotional side from my critical reasoning helps me reach these conclusions.
Ok, will someone explain what is meant by ‘that’ club?
Jeez..
Jeez..
It may be able to help you through your lack of beer and pizza.
[article]Former Liverpool captain Jamie Redknapp has told fans to “move on” over wanting FSG to leave the club and warned them to be careful what they wish for.
Along with the rest of football, many Liverpool supporters are still reeling over the arrogant attempts to squash sporting integrity by a proposed breakaway European Super League announced on Sunday that threatened to operate as a private members club rather than a competition where qualification was achieved through merit.
Despite a dramatic climbdown from Anfield chiefs FSG and the other five Premier League clubs (Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham Hotspur) who had agreed to be founder members of the rebel tournament, The Spirit of Shankly fan group described principal owner John Henry's video apology as “hollow.”
Mr Henry had insisted that: “It goes without saying that the project would not have gone ahead without the support of fans.”
However, ex-Reds skipper Redknapp reckons supporters should look forwards rather than backwards though and urged them not to hold grudges against the club’s USA-based hierarchy.
The Daily Mail quote him as telling Sky Sports : “They (the fans) got what they wanted.
“It's really important, of course there will be anger towards the owners. Liverpool fans towards John W Henry, I can understand that.
“They made a huge mistake, everyone makes mistakes in life. All you can do is apologise and move on.
“Let's say they want to sell the club, whoever comes in next is going to be in the same position.
“They won't be Liverpool fans from day one. It's a power play and money play. Let's be careful for what we wish for.”[/article]
Yes, Jamie, everyone makes mistakes.
The problem is making mistakes & not learning from them - its not as if they haven't had issues in the past where lack of consideration of the fans has back fired on them. So forgiving one time mistakes is one thing, forgiving an arrogance that leads them to make the same mistake over and over again is another thing altogether.
The problem is making mistakes & not learning from them - its not as if they haven't had issues in the past where lack of consideration of the fans has back fired on them. So forgiving one time mistakes is one thing, forgiving an arrogance that leads them to make the same mistake over and over again is another thing altogether.
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