????? Gerrard ?????

[Fox]

Stevie had shit loads of shots last night, got in the box loads of times and linked up well with all other forwards.

Should of scored a few.

So he did all this for centre midfield 😱

Please lets (and RAFA) stop all this bullshit that he cannot do his damage going forward form CM.

He is not a striker, he is not a second striker. He would not have scored the goal Deadly did, deadly followed in because HE IS A STRIKER


Lets at home at least play 4-4-2, Kuyt up front, two wingers (yossi/babel/riera) and Stevie in the middle.

We will see how it goes and how Aqua man fits in when he is ready.

Deadly deserves his chance down the middle as well.

 

[Judge Jules]

Strongly disagree. Stevie can play anywhere and be quality, and that includes being a second striker, which he's clearly proven since Rafa first picked him there. Rafa's not the only one who rates him in that position either - Torres and Carra are both on record as doing so, and they should know.

 

[spider-Neil]

I personally think in the past two games he has been less effective than when he plays behind torres

 

[Frogfish]

He was no-where near as dangerous last night, even against very modest opposition, as he is playing off Torres. Most of his shooting last night was from distance and bloody awful.

I want to see him back off Torres as soon as Aquilani returns.

BTW Stevie's record shows that he IS a bloody good striker.

 

[Fox]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35876.msg944894#msg944894 date=1253179554]
I personally think in the past two games he has been less effective than when he plays behind torres
[/quote]

he could have had a hat trick, hardly ineffective, he just had a poor game by his standards.

You have to get away from this Gerrard and Torres is all mentality.

Stevie may score 5 less but deadly and yossi may score 7 more each. Its a team game and we need more goals from more players not just 50 between stevie and nando.

Until Aqua is fit Rafa should stick with it, plus its stops Lucas playing

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Yeah, Stevie's been crap the last 2 years behind Torres...

 

[Judge Jules]

IMO Stevie does need to be in the 2 for now but, when Aquaman is fit, our first choice 2 should be Aquaman and Mascher with Stevie playing off Torres again (though Aquaman does more forward running from midfield than Xabi did, so I suspect Stevie and he will dovetail quite a bit when he does get into the team).

 

[Frogfish]

[quote author=Fox link=topic=35876.msg944915#msg944915 date=1253180244]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35876.msg944894#msg944894 date=1253179554]
I personally think in the past two games he has been less effective than when he plays behind torres
[/quote]

he could have had a hat trick, hardly ineffective, he just had a poor game by his standards.

You have to get away from this Gerrard and Torres is all mentality.

Stevie may score 5 less but deadly and yossi may score 7 more each. Its a team game and we need more goals from more players not just 50 between stevie and nando.

Until Aqua is fit Rafa should stick with it, plus its stops Lucas playing
[/quote]

You could say that about most games he plays - however last night he rarely looked like scoring except when he thundered one just over. And that was from where he would have been had be been playing off Torres.

 

[Fox]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=35876.msg944917#msg944917 date=1253180324]
Yeah, Stevie's been crap the last 2 years behind Torres...
[/quote]


=missing point.

Yes he has scored shit loads but he will still score shit loads with masher next to him. But... deadly will get more and do the job we bought the fecker for and Yossi can play more

= MORE GOALS AROUND THE TEAM, come on fellas, I am on to something 😉

 

[Judge Jules]

I honestly don't think so, mate. Dirk's had his chance to get all these goals, and didn't do it. It's the main reason why he was switched to the right, successful though that's become.

 

[Squiggles]

Fox is right.

There was a very strong opinion on here that going to the 4-4-2 and in turn breaking up the Gerrard/Torres partnership was some sort of crime. Look back over the formation threads over the summer and I was one of few saying it had to be seriously considered.

Gerrard can be equally as dangerous from a slightly deeper position. Again people get far too hung up on systems and formations and ignore that Gerrard and Torres have combined wonderfully well in a 4-4-2 previously.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35876.msg944974#msg944974 date=1253182388]
Fox is right.

There was a very strong opinion on here that going to the 4-4-2 and in turn breaking up the Gerrard/Torres partnership was some sort of crime. Look back over the formation threads over the summer and I was one of few saying it had to be seriously considered.

Gerrard can be equally as dangerous from a slightly deeper position. Again people get far too hung up on systems and formations and ignore that Gerrard and Torres have combined wonderfully well in a 4-4-2 previously.
[/quote]

"Some sort of crime" is an exaggeration. Many of us were certainly saying, and I for one make zero apology for still saying, that if something's working as well as the 4-2-3-1 setup has for us we should hesitate before changing it. It's not a question of "getting hung up" on anything, simply a preference for not "fixing" what ain't broke.

It's true that Stevie can be dangerous from deeper. What's also true is that, as long as we had Alonso, playing Stevie further forward enabled the best use of all our best players. Now that Alonso's buggered off we need to reconsider, for the moment at least. The same will apply when Aquilani becomes available.

 

[ibromurph]

I agree with Fox's sentiments, that there's far more attacking potential with an extra body in the box, and Gerrard attacking from deep (with Mascher sitting). However, against any decent side, Gerrard's runs forward would have to be curtailed else we'd be raped on the counter.

So personally, i'd like to see against the weaker sides at Anfield 4-4-2 with Gerrard and Mascher in the middle, Kuyt and Torres upfront. Against the top sides or away from home, Gerrard and Torres up front, with Aquilani playing in the 2 of a 4-2-3-1 formation.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=35876.msg944978#msg944978 date=1253182953]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35876.msg944974#msg944974 date=1253182388]
Fox is right.

There was a very strong opinion on here that going to the 4-4-2 and in turn breaking up the Gerrard/Torres partnership was some sort of crime. Look back over the formation threads over the summer and I was one of few saying it had to be seriously considered.

Gerrard can be equally as dangerous from a slightly deeper position. Again people get far too hung up on systems and formations and ignore that Gerrard and Torres have combined wonderfully well in a 4-4-2 previously.
[/quote]

"Some sort of crime" is an exaggeration.  Many of us were certainly saying, and I for one make zero apology for still saying, that if something's working as well as the 4-2-3-1 setup has for us we should hesitate before changing it.  It's not a question of "getting hung up" on anything, simply a preference for not "fixing" what ain't broke.

It's true that Stevie can be dangerous from deeper.  What's also true is that, as long as we had Alonso, playing Stevie further forward enabled the best use of all our best players.  Now that Alonso's buggered off we need to reconsider, for the moment at least.  The same will apply when Aquilani becomes available.
[/quote]

Perhaps but it was jumped upon time and time again, that I do remember. A system is "broke" if someone so key to that system departs and is replaced by Mr Sideways. With hindsight the 4-2-3-1 system should've been scrapped as soon as Alonso was sold and the realisation that 4-4-2 system was the way forward should have happened. If only Rafa didn't have a blindspot on Lucas...

 

[Judge Jules]

I'd certainly play Stevie deeper for now (Aquilani becoming available may well change things again) but I can't agree about going 4-4-2. Who plays on the right? The job out there is different in a 4-4-2 (for which you need a true wide player) from the job which needs to be done in a 4-2-3-1 (when the RM comes inside a lot more), and Dirk played out there - as well as down the middle - without much success in a 4-4-2 for us before. Yossi's effectiveness would be hobbled too, as he's not a true wide man either.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

He'll end up as a Didi Hamann type in a few years I'd guess.

 

[Judge Jules]

He's got the skills but I wonder if he has the discipline.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=35876.msg945007#msg945007 date=1253184533]
I'd certainly play Stevie deeper for now (Aquilani becoming available may well change things again) but I can't agree about going 4-4-2. Who plays on the right? The job out there is different in a 4-4-2 (for which you need a true wide player) from the job which needs to be done in a 4-2-3-1 (when the RM comes inside a lot more), and Dirk played out there - as well as down the middle - without much success in a 4-4-2 for us before. Yossi's effectiveness would be hobbled too, as he's not a true wide man either.
[/quote]

This is getting very pedantic and tied up on definitionjs but there are variations of the 4-4-2 as opposed to the standard one we all know, which allows Kuyt/whoever to maintain there similar roles:

I see it like:

----------------Torres------
------------Yossi-----------
---Riera----Gerrard----Kuyt-
-------------Masher---------

With Kuyt and Yossi switching roles through the game.

 

[Fox]

guys this is not just about Stevie and what he can do.

We need more players scoring goals, more contributing.

Masher and Lucas give fuck all goal threat, if we swap Lucas with Stevie we have chances of goals from Yossi, Stevie, albert, Diggler and Nando.

Stevie nearly got two pens last night and was in the box shit loads so bollox to who said he only had long shots.

As for 4-4-2 I was not saying Yossi shouls stick to the right flank but he is obviously good there, tht dribbling run he went on from the right was amazing.

Dirk and Yossi looking for goals, Riera with the crosses backed by by Aurelio. Johnson providing width and Stevie bursting into the box, now that has GOALS in it.

We will not win the PL by having a couple of goal threats, Stevie and Nando have off days like last night, others need to chip in.

 

[Squiggles]

Pretty much

 

[rage]

until aquaman is fit, and providing he's better than lucas, gerrard should continue to play centre mid. i actually think he'll be better there if masch plays next to him.

 

[Fox]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35876.msg945026#msg945026 date=1253185210]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=35876.msg945007#msg945007 date=1253184533]
I'd certainly play Stevie deeper for now (Aquilani becoming available may well change things again) but I can't agree about going 4-4-2. Who plays on the right? The job out there is different in a 4-4-2 (for which you need a true wide player) from the job which needs to be done in a 4-2-3-1 (when the RM comes inside a lot more), and Dirk played out there - as well as down the middle - without much success in a 4-4-2 for us before. Yossi's effectiveness would be hobbled too, as he's not a true wide man either.
[/quote]

This is getting very pedantic and tied up on definitionjs but there are variations of the 4-4-2 as opposed to the standard one we all know, which allows Kuyt/whoever to maintain there similar roles:

I see it like:

----------------Torres------
------------Yossi-----------
---Riera----Gerrard----Kuyt-
-------------Masher---------

With Kuyt and Yossi switching roles through the game.
[/quote]


SPOT ON FORMATION/PLAYERS

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Fox link=topic=35876.msg945035#msg945035 date=1253185553]
guys this is not just about Stevie and what he can do.

We need more players scoring goals, more contributing.

Masher and Lucas give fuck all goal threat, if we swap Lucas with Stevie we have chances of goals from Yossi, Stevie, albert, Diggler and Nando.

Stevie nearly got two pens last night and was in the box shit loads so bollox to who said he only had long shots.

As for 4-4-2 I was not saying Yossi shouls stick to the right flank but he is obviously good there, tht dribbling run he went on from the right was amazing.

Dirk and Yossi looking for goals, Riera with the crosses backed by by Aurelio. Johnson providing width and Stevie bursting into the box, now that has GOALS in it.

We will not win the PL by having a couple of goal threats, Stevie and Nando have off days like last night, others need to chip in.


[/quote]

I don't disagree with your general sentiments, Fox, but I'm not sure why last night's game has brought all this on. We won 1-0 against a very weak team, and created relatively few chances, while Stevie personally had a poor game.

With our supposedly blunt, non-attacking formation of 4231, we have put four goals past Stoke and Burnley in recent weeks. We also thrashed United, Real Madrid and Aston Villa using that same system last season.

 

[SummerOnions]

?? ?? ?? ?? Why would this be any different from normal ?? ?? ?? ??

 

[Fox]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35876.msg945079#msg945079 date=1253188853]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=35876.msg945035#msg945035 date=1253185553]
guys this is not just about Stevie and what he can do.

We need more players scoring goals, more contributing.

Masher and Lucas give fuck all goal threat, if we swap Lucas with Stevie we have chances of goals from Yossi, Stevie, albert, Diggler and Nando.

Stevie nearly got two pens last night and was in the box shit loads so bollox to who said he only had long shots.

As for 4-4-2 I was not saying Yossi shouls stick to the right flank but he is obviously good there, tht dribbling run he went on from the right was amazing.

Dirk and Yossi looking for goals, Riera with the crosses backed by by Aurelio. Johnson providing width and Stevie bursting into the box, now that has GOALS in it.

We will not win the PL by having a couple of goal threats, Stevie and Nando have off days like last night, others need to chip in.


[/quote]

I don't disagree with your general sentiments, Fox, but I'm not sure why last night's game has brought all this on. We won 1-0 against a very weak team, and created relatively few chances, while Stevie personally had a poor game.

With our supposedly blunt, non-attacking formation of 4231, we have put four goals past Stoke and Burnley in recent weeks. We also thrashed United, Real Madrid and Aston Villa using that same system last season.

[/quote]

Burnley win was playing the same team as last night, Stevie in midfield


fair enough bun but you mentioned the games where it worked, lets not forget we won FUCK ALL again last season.

You cannot deny that lack of goals around the team has cost us for years. Yes we have thrashed a few teams hence why our total goals scored looks good but in many games we did not score, alot more than our challengers.

IF Stevie drops a few goals from moving back but others score lots more it will be more beneficial for us as a team over the season. For a while now we have had two Central midfielders who contribute fuck all to the goals tally. I think that has costs us over a season.

Maybe Aqua fella will solve that problem but until then I would like Rafa to stick with what he is doing. If Stevie had been up front with Nando last night Diggler would not have followed up that shot from Nando.

We had more chances last night than you are giving us credit for, Gerrard should have scored three and tried to get two pens from bursting into the box late.

Torres with Kuyt and Yossi switching should be our strikers IMO, we would get more goals from around the team and solve the problem where we relied too much on two players.

 

[TheBunnyman]

Oops - yeah, I forgot that's how we played v Burnley.

On a sidenote, is anyone else embarrassed by how often (and girlishly) Gerrard dives? I wish he'd just try and stay on his feet when he's in the box.

 

[Squiggles]

I agree.

The excuses made that he only goes down when there's contact made are nonsense. He throws himself down at the slightest touch with his arms up in the air.

 

[vikas]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35876.msg945309#msg945309 date=1253205379]
I agree.

The excuses made that he only goes down when there's contact made are nonsense. He throws himself down at the slightest touch with his arms up in the air.
[/quote]

Which still counts as contact in the modern game.

 

[Judge Jules]

I don't have a problem with a player going down when there's an actual foul on him which the ref.would otherwise have missed. Contact isn't automatically a foul though.

 

[Shed Dweller]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=35876.msg944926#msg944926 date=1253180503]
IMO Stevie does need to be in the 2 for now but, when Aquaman is fit, our first choice 2 should be Aquaman and Mascher with Stevie playing off Torres again (though Aquaman does more forward running from midfield than Xabi did, so I suspect Stevie and he will dovetail quite a bit when he does get into the team).
[/quote]
What the fuck does IMO mean? If it is another abreviated rape of the English language like LOL then stick to facebook. By vertue of the fact you have time to be on here mean you surley have the time to write the full words. ???............