Are commanding presences what we really need?

[juniormember]

There's a lot of talk of us needing commanding centre back(s) and defensive midfielder.
While I'm not against that, for me the second goal last night and the countless goals we've conceded, and the countless chances we've given opposition teams on the counter attack to me suggests that perhaps what we need are very pacy centre backs and a quick midfielder (Mascher/Momo speed) so we can be more comfortable during counter attacks that we're inevitably going to be on the end of, considering Rodger's vulnerable system.

Our other issue of conceding or looking gash during set pieces also to me is more about the system. When Rafa was around, even with all the press we got about zonal marking, we conceded very little. We had, I think, 5 players in front of goal that stayed where they were in the most dangerous positions, while another four players manmarked further out to chase the runs.
Right now we're only manmarking so we're relying completely on the provision our players will never lose their man. But it inevitably happens.
Changing that may well help us get better results.

Obviously having players that are both athletic and commanding is the best, but given the choice of either I'd be looking for more pace within our current approach to games, and some change in tactics when defending set pieces.
Or do others see it differently?

 

[Insignificance]

Somehow I think our system is based on us having the ball. We are supposed to keep the ball, let the oposition run in between and get tired so we can capitalize on that. We are also depending on our attacking players have the skill and understanding to set up triangles were we move the ball through press levels in a smart and effiencet way. The drawback of course being that the players to do this need to be extreme skilled and movable.

Our system does not take into account that the other team have the ball, and that they counter us. It doesn't take into concideration the often rough duell play inside both boxes.

So I am really not sure how we should cope with that. I know that the system have left normal good defenders exposed to extreme situations to often. And that we collectively have dropped our heads defensively. maybe it is due to we know we are vulnerable, and it affects us. maybe it is down to palyers being frustrated. Maybe it is just a drop in form that we should expect. I am not sure why solid defenders look like they do junior mistakes to many times. We need to sort it out, as I am not sure other defenders would have performed better.

 

[hmmmmm1]

2 school boy errors (by a good player!) costs us the game.

I am not sure what the commanding presence would have done with those goals unless that player was sammi.

 

[Insignificance]

2 school boy errors (by a good player!) costs us the game.

I am not sure what the commanding presence would have done with those goals unless that player was sammi.

The free header have happened to us to often for us to not be worried about it.

 

[hmmmmm1]

The free header have happened to us to often for us to not be worried about it.

Good players are looking rubbish, so are they in poor form or is it something deeper?

 

[nealmac]

2 school boy errors (by a good player!) costs us the game.

I am not sure what the commanding presence would have done with those goals unless that player was sammi.

Agreed.

We need two centre backs that can read the game, and work well with each other, before we need anything else.

 

[FoxForceFive]

Maybe not commanding, but we need the belief to win.

It's a similar issue to that arsenal have suffered from, the bulk of the team is made up of kids & players who aren't used to winning.

Yes we need a bit more steel, but we also need to be relentless in attack & have players pushing their belief onto the others that we will score.

Suarez has it, but is massively overplayed & is tired; Gerrard has it but can't single handedly influence the game & those around them; Carra clearly has it but again isn't in a position to be able to influence the attack. Johnson is the most capable of doing it at present, & that's why he's stood out so much.

 

[juniormember]

Agreed.

We need two centre backs that can read the game, and work well with each other, before we need anything else.

But the point is, they can be reading everything about the game, but that won't change the fact they'll be completely exposed on the counter, the way we play.
That's the reason I'm thinking about the need for pace, above a lot of other important qualities.
Obviously I'm not saying get Bramble because he's quicker over 30 yards than Agger or Skrtel.
There has to be a balance, but should we look at pace first, considering our system.

 

[Insignificance]

But the point is, they can be reading everything about the game, but that won't change the fact they'll be completely exposed on the counter, the way we play.
That's the reason I'm thinking about the need for pace, above a lot of other important qualities.
Obviously I'm not saying get Bramble because he's quicker over 30 yards than Agger or Skrtel.
There has to be a balance, but should we look at pace first, considering our system.

If that is the problem it would be easier to solve it by not exposing them that much to counters.

 

[juniormember]

If that is the problem it would be easier to solve it by not exposing them that much to counters.

And therein lies the problem.
Swansea was the same. I don't think Rodgers will change. But it might work with pace.
He's going nowhere for at least the next couple of years, so we need to make the system work.

 

[nealmac]

But the point is, they can be reading everything about the game, but that won't change the fact they'll be completely exposed on the counter, the way we play.
That's the reason I'm thinking about the need for pace, above a lot of other important qualities.
Obviously I'm not saying get Bramble because he's quicker over 30 yards than Agger or Skrtel.
There has to be a balance, but should we look at pace first, considering our system.

Well it would still be a step in the right direction. Because at the moment, neither of our 2 main centre backs (Skrtel and Agger) can read the game. And if they can, they're both lazy cunts that couldn't be arsed.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

If my capture of all the goals we've conceded this season is correct - we've actually not conceded a goal through a counter (or open, poorly-defended central midfield) since late-December, until Lukaku scored yesterday. We have, though, let in a lot of goals through keepers / defenders (mainly CBs) making mistakes or shirking their responsibilities.

Add to that Agger's shitty defending for the corner, and being beaten too easily by Lukaku (okay, I'll give Lukaku more credit for this goal and chalk that down to his quality than Agger's shitness lately).

-----
Dec 26 FT Stoke City 3-1 Liverpool
- Kenwyn Jones beats Agger in aerial challenge for long ball from deep; Skrtel slips and falls as Jonathan Walters latches on to the ball and scores
- Kenwyn Jones scores directly from corner after losing Skrtel
- Kenwyn Jones knocks down a throw in and Walters finishes off splendidly

Jan 6 FT Mansfield Town 1-2 Liverpool (FA Cup)
- Matthew Green is left unmarked in the box (Allen should've picked him up?) and scores from a reverse pass from the left bye-line

Jan 13 FT Manchester United 2-1 Liverpool
- Wisdom doesn't attempt to stop a cross from the right and Agger fails to stay close to Van Persie; RVP scores
- Evra heads in a free kick after being left unmarked at the far post; Vidic might've gotten a touch off his header

Jan 27 FT Oldham Athletic 3-2 Liverpool (FA Cup)
- Matt Smith is left totally unmarked in the box; Wisdom allows the cross from the right and Smith leaps over Coates to head in
- Skrtel fails to cut out a cross from the left; Jones makes a mess of a simple catch; ball runs loose and ends up at the far post where Smith is left unmarked by Wisdom who has gone to defend on the goal line of the vacated goal; Smith scores
- Deep cross from the right that takes ages to come down is neatly headed in by Wabara at the far post despite two Liverpool players sandwiching him

Jan 30 FT Arsenal 2-2 Liverpool
- Giroud scores a free header from a free kick after Agger fails to pick him up in the box; another Gunner(who?) would've scored anyway had Giroud failed to connect as Carra had lost track of him as well
- Walcott thrashes in a good goal across Reina after neat passing between Cazorla and Giroud; Reina doesn't even move

Feb 3 FT Manchester City 2-2 Liverpool
- Johnson is turned easily by Silva; slips a pass to Milner whom Agger has played onside; Carra can't catch Milner and Agger fails to cut out the cross as Dzeko scores
- Ball is slipped to Aguero who nips in behind the backline heading away from the goal; Skrtel gives up chasing the ball and goes to defend the angle to goal as he sees Reina charging out to close Aguero; Aguero whips in a delightful goal from a tight angle