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Weekend Games Aug 30th

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I'm not saying those players had any intention of going here initially, but I highly doubt they ruled us out as a viable option from the start. No agent would allow their players to do that. And I do agree that the big city life is a draw, but it's nowhere near the magnitude being expressed on here. Again, it's Liverpool, not Dagestan. Club location is an intangible, not a deciding factor for any aspiring star.

I've seen nothing that convinces me that we were remotely in for Sanchez apart from a few distant links, which admittedly sounded like writers were just shoehorning our name into the article to draw clicks.

As far as Costa goes, remember Mohamed Salah? He was going to us since last October/November in the January window. These things change all the time, and there's nothing to suggest that a superior offer wouldn't have worked. Again, at the very least, you make him cost Chelsea 40M and 250k/wk so they lose another 10M from their FFP allocation.

Fabregas walks into just about every first team in the world, I have no idea how we don't need him.

I'm not too upset at the players we've brought in, but we certainly could've done better looking at some of the moves our competitors have made. Rodgers is terrific at developing talent, but his transfer policy has yet to be proven as more than average. And no doubt we've been incredibly lucky so far in having our young players take a step up, which cannot be a guarantee going forward. At some point we will need to start buying top class finished products to fill our holes, and the precedent has to start somewhere.

I can sympathize with the point you're trying to make (who doesn't want world class players at Liverpool...) but the way you go about arguing it is letting you down.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ls-why-Liverpool-missed-out-on-Alexis-Sanchez

Straight from the horses mouth. We were in for him. By all accounts offered more money (as per your argument) and ultimately it made no difference. At some point you just have to accept that.

As for Costa, He had a release clause. Chelsea paid it. Chelsea were never going to have to pay more and Costa was never going to end up anywhere else. It was just a complete non-starter.

According to some reports, Fabregas didn't (re)settle in Barcelona and my view is that he wanted to go back (home) to London.

But that's enough about individual players.

I think everyone would've liked to see us add a world class talent or two. You're not alone in that sense. Part of the problem we encountered this summer is that there weren't that many available. The ones you mentioned, we either tried and failed to sign (Costa, Sanchez) or had absolutely no hope (Fabregas). Then you're basically left with 50M plus signings on mad wages and even then there wasn't anyone really that had everyone convinced.

The club took a more pragmatic approach this summer. We needed to build out the squad, which looked pretty thin last season, and so spread our bets. It's feels not too dissimilar to the approach Spurs took several years ago when they were trying to transition from mid-table to top 4 (though obviously we're doing it with a higher class of player).

This is our first year back in the CL after a 5 year absence and the most important thing right now both on and off the pitch is re-establishing ourselves as a CL team and maintaining some kind of financial flexibility in case that doesn't happen as quickly as we'd like.
 
I can sympathize with the point you're trying to make (who doesn't want world class players at Liverpool...) but the way you go about arguing it is letting you down.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...ls-why-Liverpool-missed-out-on-Alexis-Sanchez

Straight from the horses mouth. We were in for him. By all accounts offered more money (as per your argument) and ultimately it made no difference. At some point you just have to accept that.

As for Costa, He had a release clause. Chelsea paid it. Chelsea were never going to have to pay more and Costa was never going to end up anywhere else. It's just a complete non-starter.

According to some reports, Fabregas didn't (re)settle in Barcelona and my view is that he wanted to go back (home) to London.

But that's enough about individual players.

I think everyone would've liked to see us add a world class talent or two. You're not alone in that sense. Part of the problem we encountered this summer is that there weren't that many available. The ones you mentioned, we either tried and failed to sign (Costa, Sanchez) or had absolutely no hope (Fabregas). Then you're basically left with 50M plus signings on mad wages and even then there wasn't anyone really that had everyone convinced.

The club took a more pragmatic approach this summer. We needed to build out the squad, which looked pretty thin last season, and so spread our bets. It's feels not too dissimilar to the approach Spurs took several years ago when they were trying to transition from mid-table to top 4 (though obviously we're doing it with a higher class of player).

This is our first year back in the CL after a 5 year absence and the most important thing right now both on and off the pitch is re-establishing ourselves as a CL team and maintaining some kind of financial flexibility in case that doesn't happen as quickly as we'd like.



This is a great post.

The thing for me though is that I'll never be convinced that the place you live will be such a huge deciding factor on where you want to play. For me, that's Rodgers covering for the people spearheading the transfers, and a lame cop out from those folks, than an actual justification on why we missed out. Like I said, location is an intangible, not a deciding factor, regarding where players land.

I never seriously expected us to even be in for Diego Costa this window, and I'd completely forgotten he was on a release clause. My fault, that price couldn't have been driven up. Granted, we could have made a competitive offer on wages.

Fabregas is the one that really irks me though, Chelsea got him for an absolute steal. He might've wanted to go back to London, and not have settled, but I don't think that's enough reason for him to decide to exclusively go to London. I don't precisely remember the United saga last summer, but IIRC, it seemed like he was keen enough to go to United, but Barca didn't want to let him go at that point.

Absolutely agree that beyond Costa/Fabregas/Sanchez, there aren't a whole lot of reasonably priced players. But that's the whole issue of it for me: Our direct rivals are getting top class players at cut rates. Players who we seemingly decided against going after. And with FFP watching the numbers, it would behoove us to push our rivals to spend as much as they have to, to make deals happen.

I don't have a problem with the approach we took though, I thought Spurs did really well last summer. The caveat though is that there wasn't much communication there between the people making the deals, and the people actually managing the squad. We seem to be more tightly knit than that, which is promising. The issue though is there is a ton of parity in the side: our starters aren't as far ahead of our bench options than they should be. We've been able to paper over those cracks with Suarez last season, and the (very reasonable) amount of talent that we do have.

But to truly reach the level of squad we're striving to have here, we need options like Sterling, Coutinho, Markovic, Moreno, Can, Origi, Ilori and Ibe to develop into the sorts of top class players we think they can be. And with that much youth, there's a good chance that a fair few will make it. And while it's a noble, frugal, and ultimately smart way to approach developing talent, there's a huge inherent risk that could at times leave us toothless and hopeless on the pitch, either due to youthful naivete, or simply a lack of progression and stagnation of the squad in hopes of those young players panning out.

As far as financial flexibility goes though, wouldn't it make more sense to go the approach of signing a few elite players at exorbitant prices(Carvalho, Draxler, etc), so our investment isn't spread out over numerous signings? Bit like how Monaco or Anzi were able to quickly get their money back by selling the few top players they had invested in. Plus you don't end up paying the wages for a bunch of options. Just my initial thinking on this, not really anything of how we should approach transfer policy.
 
I don't understand why you refuse to accept that the location of the team doesn't play a factor, mate... When all other things are basically equal (money, potential to win, etc...), which I assume they are between us and Arsenal, I'd wager that location might become a huge influence.

If you got a promotion at work and could chose between taking that promotion in Aberdeen or Paris, but every other detail pertaining to the promotion was the same, where would you chose to go?
 
I don't understand why you refuse to accept that the location of the team doesn't play a factor, mate... When all other things are basically equal (money, potential to win, etc...), which I assume they are between us and Arsenal, I'd wager that location might become a huge influence.

If you got a promotion at work and could chose between taking that promotion in Aberdeen or Paris, but every other detail pertaining to the promotion was the same, where would you chose to go?


I'm not certain you actually bothered reading what I posted. I said that while location can have an impact, it would never be the deciding factor. And this summer, we have more financial resources available than Arsenal, so arguably we hold the edge as far as that aspect is concerned. Potential to win, you could easily make a pitch that our squad is more viable than that of Arsenal which scraped to a 4th place finish. It's by no means definitive that all else would be equal when comparing the two.

I imagine it would be easier to get in for Liverpool matches from Aberdeen though. Cost of living must be ghoulish in Paris as well...would also need to do some research on tax laws comparing the two.
 
Nevermind. You're determined that it would never be the deciding factor... I'm convinced that if all things are pretty much equal (as they would be in this conversation unless you grew up a fan of either team) the vast majority of people would choose London over Liverpool. And I think that vast majority of people would chose Paris over Aberdeen, mate... Ease of getting to Liverpool every two weeks wouldn't be in many lists of criteria! 🙂
 
I don't really know what to say about the Fabregas thing. It is odd that he moved for a relatively low fee. I just don't get the whole Barca / Fabregas thing in general. Weird.

I've never seen Carvahlo play so I don't know whether he's that good or not. There seems to be a lot of paper talk but nobody has quite pulled the trigger on this kid yet. Is he the genuine article or another Veloso?

As for Draxler, I don't think he wanted to leave this summer, did he? We'll have our shot next summer if we're interested but reports always say everyone in Europe has been trying to get him so we'll find it tough.

I don't watch as much football as I used to these days so not too sure who qualifies as an elite prospect that we'd do well to get. We've been led to believe that Markovic is in that bracket but the lack of hype surrounding him does make you question it I suppose. Looks promising though.

To be honest, I'm looking less at Fabregas this summer and more at guys like Fernando who went to City for 12M. That's more our level. Angel Correa I was very intrigued by.

It's an interesting point you make in terms of parity between our various options - perhaps one that is worth it's own thread.
 
I don't really know what to say about the Fabregas thing. It is odd that he moved for a relatively low fee. I just don't get the whole Barca / Fabregas thing in general. Weird.

I've never seen Carvahlo play so I don't know whether he's that good or not. There seems to be a lot of paper talk but nobody has quite pulled the trigger on this kid yet. Is he the genuine article or another Veloso?

As for Draxler, I don't think he wanted to leave this summer, did he? We'll have our shot next summer if we're interested but reports always say everyone in Europe has been trying to get him so we'll find it tough.

I don't watch as much football as I used to these days so not too sure who qualifies as an elite prospect that we'd do well to get. We've been led to believe that Markovic is in that bracket but the lack of hype surrounding him does make you question it I suppose. Looks promising though.

To be honest, I'm looking less at Fabregas this summer and more at guys like Fernando who went to City for 12M. That's more our level. Angel Correa I was very intrigued by.

It's an interesting point you make in terms of parity between our various options - perhaps one that is worth it's own thread.


I was mainly just using William Carvalho and Draxler as examples of hyped young players looking for a big money move, not much else. Mostly comparisons for deals like James Rodriguez to Monaco last summer for 40M.

Anyways, I think there's a lot of hot/cold reviews on Carvalho. Some think he's great, and some don't see the hype, but Arsenal might bite on him in the last days of the window.

Also, I think Draxler, along with Reus, will be on the move next summer. Draxler probably abroad somewhere, so we could be in for him if we do well this year.

I think it is very difficult to rank young players, there's a lot of parity in terms of talent and potential. Mentality and other intangibles are tough to definitively use too. Plus you could compare the media power of hyping the international team/track record of talent between nations like Germany(Draxler), Portugal(Carvalho), Spain(Isco), France(Pogba), Argentina(Iturbe), England(Sterling) with Serbia(Markovic), Denmark(Fischer). *shrug*

Regarding Fernando though, I get the feeling that we need to completely revamp the midfield starting with the holding role. But it seems at the moment BR doesn't have the balls/leverage/backing to try and fix our issues there, so we'll be in a vicious cycle of incompetent defending/tracking back. Hopefully whenever somebody new gets an opportunity at that role(Can/Allen?), they really seize it and make it their own. For me though, Fernando is a similar signing to Demichelis/Caballero for Pellegrini: average reliable starting player, nothing too sexy, but works very well in a supremely talented side.
 
Next step for Reus is Barca or Real.

Next step for Draxler is a club at about our level. What do I mean by "our level"?
A top four team basically, but with room to improve.
 
That was fucking hilarious from Besic. I knew for a fact that he would try something daft as soon as he got it. He was trying to take the piss when he made his debut in a friendly.
 
I said that while location can have an impact, it would never be the deciding factor.

Location is probably more often the deciding factor than we care to imagine. Sanchez said himself his wife wanted London. Game, set and match to the wife. There are plenty of other examples too of working wives wanting London or Madrid or Paris or Milan or Barcelona over a less attractive city socially, physically or in terms of job opportunities.

Sanchez is just one example of many. Wives and families have a big say, often the deciding word. And if location is never a factor and it all comes down to money then how come virtually no-one would choose Russia, Qatar, China or the MLS over the PL / La Liga or Bundesliga (though that argument introduces other factors aside from, but inclusive of, location). In the end it almost always comes down to a basket of factors, location being one of the most important.
 
Location is probably more often the deciding factor than we care to imagine. Sanchez said himself his wife wanted London. Game, set and match to the wife. There are plenty of other examples too of working wives wanting London or Madrid or Paris or Milan or Barcelona over a less attractive city socially, physically or in terms of job opportunities.

Sanchez is just one example of many. Wives and families have a big say, often the deciding word. And if location is never a factor and it all comes down to money then how come virtually no-one would choose Russia, Qatar, China or the MLS over the PL / La Liga or Bundesliga (though that argument introduces other factors aside from, but inclusive of, location). In the end it almost always comes down to a basket of factors, location being one of the most important.


I think claiming that location was the deciding factor is the ultimate cop out of giving an actual reason as to why you picked a club. It's a different approach from the players who talk down the other clubs obviously, but I can't see that being such a dramatic factor. I simply refuse to believe that when Sanchez was looking at prospective clubs, he decided living in London was the biggest priority. That approach could be career suicide, no self respecting agent would allow their clients to be so narrow minded.

Of course a player would consult his family, but I would be pretty shocked if a player legitimately tries to force a move to a specific club just because his wife wants to live there because they have nice restaurants.

I'm not comparing living in Dakar versus Barcelona here. London is accessible from Liverpool, and has comfortable living situations and entertainment. If the offer is right, that's a compromise every player and agent would be happy to make, wifely whims be damned.
 
I think claiming that location was the deciding factor is the ultimate cop out of giving an actual reason as to why you picked a club. It's a different approach from the players who talk down the other clubs obviously, but I can't see that being such a dramatic factor. I simply refuse to believe that when Sanchez was looking at prospective clubs, he decided living in London was the biggest priority. That approach could be career suicide, no self respecting agent would allow their clients to be so narrow minded.

Of course a player would consult his family, but I would be pretty shocked if a player legitimately tries to force a move to a specific club just because his wife wants to live there because they have nice restaurants.

I'm not comparing living in Dakar versus Barcelona here. London is accessible from Liverpool, and has comfortable living situations and entertainment. If the offer is right, that's a compromise every player and agent would be happy to make, wifely whims be damned.

You know how us males get when the females of our species want something. Our pricks rule our heads and agents be damned.

His wife is a model and Liverpool/Manchester is a virtual desert in that regard (my daughter was/is a model and would never even consider living, in the UK, outside London) - the commute is not convenient from Manchester/Liverpool to London (I think it was Virgin - might be Midland - who scrapped all of their flights, leaving only one main airline servicing the route now and that only to Heathrow with no flights to Gatwick - then of course you have to get downtown).

And I certainly don't see how choosing London over Liverpool is career suicide !

To suggest players and their agents should ride rough-shod over their families' desires is pretty outrageous. For the vast majority of us where the wife/children want to live, and their happiness, is the highest priority on our list. It's not like it's Liverpool or nowhere. For aspiring young players it's largely irrelevant and they are happy to make the move, for established stars with a wife / families, it's far from irrelevant.
 
I was mainly just using William Carvalho and Draxler as examples of hyped young players looking for a big money move, not much else. Mostly comparisons for deals like James Rodriguez to Monaco last summer for 40M.

Anyways, I think there's a lot of hot/cold reviews on Carvalho. Some think he's great, and some don't see the hype, but Arsenal might bite on him in the last days of the window.


I think Carvalho is possibly the most overhyped young player in the world football right now. I see absolutely no indications he will turn into a good player, let alone a world-class one. If United or Arsenal spunk big money on him I'll be laughing.
 
You know how us males get when the females of our species want something. Our pricks rule our heads and agents be damned.

His wife is a model and Liverpool/Manchester is a virtual desert in that regard (my daughter was/is a model and would never even consider living, in the UK, outside London) - the commute is not convenient from Manchester/Liverpool to London (I think it was Virgin - might be Midland - who scrapped all of their flights, leaving only one main airline servicing the route now and that only to Heathrow with no flights to Gatwick - then of course you have to get downtown).

And I certainly don't see how choosing London over Liverpool is career suicide !

To suggest players and their agents should ride rough-shod over their families' desires is pretty outrageous. For the vast majority of us where the wife/children want to live, and their happiness, is the highest priority on our list. It's not like it's Liverpool or nowhere. For aspiring young players it's largely irrelevant and they are happy to make the move, for established stars with a wife / families, it's far from irrelevant.


I meant it was potential career suicide to base your footballing options purely on destination. Like I said, no agent would let their player go to Anzi versus Bayern, if an equal offer came in, in most cases.

I see where you're coming from, but at the end of the day, I just can't see it the way you do. Picking Liverpool over London isn't ideal for players who have families to want to live in the big city, but it's not as if you're choosing between 1st and 3rd world countries either. I would hope that's a compromise that most footballing families would be willing to make.

Either that, or we need @athensruairi to start a modeling circuit in Liverpool.
 
Anyone else feel Leicester have a good chance in this game? Arsenal have Sanchez, Ramsey, Cazorla and Ozil in front of Flamini in midfield, only Ramsey will contribute anything defensively, I think Leicester could overrun them, especially if they take confidence from their performance against Chelsea last week.
 
I hope Wenger persists with Sanago as a striker over Sanchez just to prove a point. And fuck is that the same Konchesky that is playing for Leicester?!?!
 
Arsenal's defending for the equalizer was just atrocious. How defenders let goals like this happen I'll never know. You can see the play developing, you can see the opponent running into the box, you know a high cross is most likely to come in, and yet, you totally leave the guy in the box unmolested. I love it.

And as etchy said, Wenger looks like he's persisting with Sanogo to prove a point. Remy going to Chelsea is less shit news than Remy going to Arsenal.

Not really paying attention to the game, but judging by the lack of raised voices by the commentators, I assume it's been half meh. Haven't heard him scream Sanchez as well, so I suppose he's having another meh game too.
 
Arsenal's defending for the equalizer was just atrocious. How defenders let goals like this happen I'll never know. You can see the play developing, you can see the opponent running into the box, you know a high cross is most likely to come in, and yet, you totally leave the guy in the box unmolested. I love it.


Yeah, they need to use the Skrtel approach and get handsy with the guys waiting for the cross.
 
Leicester's an enterprising side. Not intimidated by Arsenal and Ulloa missed a great chance to make it 2-1
 
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