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two footed challenges

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[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=48212.msg1462525#msg1462525 date=1326323081]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48212.msg1462513#msg1462513 date=1326322581]
We have to decide is this a man's contact sport or not. To be frank I'm prepared to see a few broken legs than a sport where tackling is practically outlawed. There are injuries because of tackles in every proper contact sport. That's part of the deal. Johnson took that ball cleanly and Lescott would have had to have been stupid to get in the way of that tackle.
[/quote]

So, if that was you, on a Sunday morning, in the role of Lescott, you'd not have had a word with the bloke playing GlenJo?
[/quote]

If the ball was at my feet and he dived in like that, square at me and the ball, yes. Not as it was.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=48212.msg1462505#msg1462505 date=1326322071]
[quote author=Moseley link=topic=48212.msg1462502#msg1462502 date=1326321958]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=48212.msg1462491#msg1462491 date=1326321621]
These are never easy calls but it was a horrible tackle and Magic would be the only one to blame if he got the red there.
[/quote]

^this

dangerous ground indeed
[/quote]

Nah, it was only half full.
[/quote]

It was certainly more than 50% 'full'.

According to the rules, we would have had no complaint whatsoever if Johnson had of been sent off. I think because he caught the ball so cleanly he got away with it. However, Kompany just got fucked off for similar.

The fact that the opponent is not harmed/fouled/snapped/tripped/killed is by-the-by.


Them's the rules. Shite they might be and everyone should fucking well man up, but, them's the rules.
 
[quote author=Moseley link=topic=48212.msg1462540#msg1462540 date=1326323796]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=48212.msg1462505#msg1462505 date=1326322071]
[quote author=Moseley link=topic=48212.msg1462502#msg1462502 date=1326321958]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=48212.msg1462491#msg1462491 date=1326321621]
These are never easy calls but it was a horrible tackle and Magic would be the only one to blame if he got the red there.
[/quote]

^this

dangerous ground indeed
[/quote]

Nah, it was only half full.
[/quote]

It was certainly more than 50% 'full'.

According to the rules, we would have had no complaint whatsoever if Johnson had of been sent off. I think because he caught the ball so cleanly he got away with it. However, Kompany just got fucked off for similar.

The fact that the opponent is not harmed/fouled/snapped/tripped/killed is by-the-by.


Them's the rules. Shite they might be and everyone should fucking well man up, but, them's the rules.
[/quote]

That "rule" you are talking about doesn't exist.
 
[quote author=Shelvey link=topic=48212.msg1462546#msg1462546 date=1326324627]
[quote author=Moseley link=topic=48212.msg1462540#msg1462540 date=1326323796]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=48212.msg1462505#msg1462505 date=1326322071]
[quote author=Moseley link=topic=48212.msg1462502#msg1462502 date=1326321958]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=48212.msg1462491#msg1462491 date=1326321621]
These are never easy calls but it was a horrible tackle and Magic would be the only one to blame if he got the red there.
[/quote]

^this

dangerous ground indeed
[/quote]

Nah, it was only half full.
[/quote]

It was certainly more than 50% 'full'.

According to the rules, we would have had no complaint whatsoever if Johnson had of been sent off. I think because he caught the ball so cleanly he got away with it. However, Kompany just got fucked off for similar.

The fact that the opponent is not harmed/fouled/snapped/tripped/killed is by-the-by.


Them's the rules. Shite they might be and everyone should fucking well man up, but, them's the rules.
[/quote]

That "rule" you are talking about doesn't exist.
[/quote]

Consistency from refs regarding 'intent', 'studs up', 'from behind' and everything else they use to hang the players is another issue altogether.

The (sad) reality is that Glojo's challenge is open to interpretation from refs. It's the spur of the moment interpretation that a player can avoid by not jumping in, two-footed.
 
[quote author=momoWASboss link=topic=48212.msg1462520#msg1462520 date=1326322895]
I'm not trying to outlaw tackling, just dangerous ones like Johnson's today.

I don't agree with all tackles from behind are yellows, because you can come across the ground and use your leg to get the ball without endangering your opponent.

Tackling in itself is a skill, just like hitting a 40 yard pass. What I seen tonight was just the opposite. Throwing your whole weight, studs showing towards that ball was not skill at all. It was stupid and wreckless.
[/quote]

I don't see a major difference in one or two footed tackling - bad dangerous tackles can be made by either.

I had my leg broken when i was 17 from a one footed tackle, but it was malicious and driven down onto my shin. I'd rather someone made a timed two footed tackle, like GlenJo, which is avoiding the player, than a slow one footed tackle which is late and half arsed which can fuck a career.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48212.msg1462528#msg1462528 date=1326323182]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=48212.msg1462525#msg1462525 date=1326323081]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48212.msg1462513#msg1462513 date=1326322581]
We have to decide is this a man's contact sport or not. To be frank I'm prepared to see a few broken legs than a sport where tackling is practically outlawed. There are injuries because of tackles in every proper contact sport. That's part of the deal. Johnson took that ball cleanly and Lescott would have had to have been stupid to get in the way of that tackle.
[/quote]

So, if that was you, on a Sunday morning, in the role of Lescott, you'd not have had a word with the bloke playing GlenJo?
[/quote]

If the ball was at my feet and he dived in like that, square at me and the ball, yes. Not as it was.
[/quote]

This. First i would like to clarify that i didn't think Kompany deserved his card.

Second. Lescott was never in control of the ball.

The ball was in no man's land and they were both trying to get to it as quick as they can. As long as they don't do that right into the direction of the on rushing player, it is fine by my book.

The only way that could have ended up being bad is that if they both decided to jump in like that.

As it is, Lescott arrives a good while after Johnson is through the ball and kicks johnson near his thigh as johnson slide across. Some of you are just being drama queens. Shut your trap!
 
From the 'video evidence' provided in this thread, Kompany seemed to be studs up directly face on towards Nani who had to jump to avoid contact. Whereas Glenjo was studs up at the ball at a 90 degree angle to Lescott who arrived late and kicked Glenjo rather than Glenjo kicking Lescott.
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=48212.msg1462615#msg1462615 date=1326344555]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48212.msg1462528#msg1462528 date=1326323182]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=48212.msg1462525#msg1462525 date=1326323081]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48212.msg1462513#msg1462513 date=1326322581]
We have to decide is this a man's contact sport or not. To be frank I'm prepared to see a few broken legs than a sport where tackling is practically outlawed. There are injuries because of tackles in every proper contact sport. That's part of the deal. Johnson took that ball cleanly and Lescott would have had to have been stupid to get in the way of that tackle.
[/quote]

So, if that was you, on a Sunday morning, in the role of Lescott, you'd not have had a word with the bloke playing GlenJo?
[/quote]

If the ball was at my feet and he dived in like that, square at me and the ball, yes. Not as it was.
[/quote]

This. First i would like to clarify that i didn't think Kompany deserved his card.

Second. Lescott was never in control of the ball.

The ball was in no man's land and they were both trying to get to it as quick as they can. As long as they don't do that right into the direction of the on rushing player, it is fine by my book.

The only way that could have ended up being bad is that if they both decided to jump in like that.

As it is, Lescott arrives a good while after Johnson is through the ball and kicks johnson near his thigh as johnson slide across. Some of you are just being drama queens. Shut your trap!
[/quote]

Exactly - if a player jumps in two footed on a ball to control it or pass it in the middle of the pitch (I know its unlikely but ..) when there is no player within 10 yards, would that be a red? No! This wasnt 10 yards ... more like 10 inches, but there was no way Johnson was goign to hit him. Whoever said "what ifLescott left his foot in there?", is strugglign with the physical laws of space & movement ,...
 
Plenty of refs would have sent him off for it, but this one didn't.

Had he made solid contact with Lescott he probably would have broken his ankle, but he didn't.

All's well that ends well eh?
 
What if Lescott had lunged in order to reach the ball?

Cant understand how people can defend Johnsons tackle.
 
If Kompany's was a red, then so what Johnson's.

I don't feel Kompany's was a red ... I don't feel Johnson's was a red ...

But, as Kompany said, that's where the game may be going.
 
All players & fans want from referees is consistency. Consistency & subservience. Consistency, subservience & a couple of welcoming holes.
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48212.msg1462660#msg1462660 date=1326358683]
What if Lescott had lunged in order to reach the ball?

[/quote]

Accidents happen. And do you know what, unless he really planted his foot down in the path of Johnson's tackle he'd not come off badly. So long as you're not diving in towards the player I think this kind of challenge is fine. As people have said there are loads of more dangerous types of challenge.

I have asked Spion to prove this with a demo on Rosco at the drinkies footie match.
 
There was a guy reading from the rule book (literally) this morning on SSN. He said that ref's have to consider if there was sufficient space between the ball and the opposing player whereby the tackling player is more than likely to get there first. He also said there had to be intent.

Watch it again, he doesn't even look at Lescott, he looks at the ball all the way, Lescott gets there after the ball was played. It wasn't a sending off, but then neither was Kompany's. Just because Kompany's was a fuck up, it doesn't determine the decision over Glen Jo's, if anything, the latter should be held as an example of why Kompany shouldn't have walked, not the reverse.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=48212.msg1462668#msg1462668 date=1326359587]
If Kompany's was a red, then so what Johnson's.

I don't feel Kompany's was a red ... I don't feel Johnson's was a red ...

But, as Kompany said, that's where the game may be going.
[/quote]

Regardless of where the game is going, that's for the governing bodies to determine. The game now as it stands should be judged by the rules at hand and the rules (regarding Johnson's) suggest it wasn't a sending off.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=48212.msg1462668#msg1462668 date=1326359587]
If Kompany's was a red, then so what Johnson's.

I don't feel Kompany's was a red ... I don't feel Johnson's was a red ...

But, as Kompany said, that's where the game may be going.
[/quote]

If that means less players breaking their legs...good.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48212.msg1462677#msg1462677 date=1326360297]
There was a guy reading from the rule book (literally) this morning on SSN. He said that ref's have to consider if there was sufficient space between the ball and the opposing player whereby the tackling player is more than likely to get there first. He also said there had to be intent.

Watch it again, he doesn't even look at Lescott, he looks at the ball all the way, Lescott gets there after the ball was played. It wasn't a sending off, but then neither was Kompany's. Just because Kompany's was a fuck up, it doesn't determine the decision over Glen Jo's, if anything, the latter should be held as an example of why Kompany shouldn't have walked, not the reverse.
[/quote]

What was their conclusion Mark?
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=48212.msg1462690#msg1462690 date=1326361064]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48212.msg1462677#msg1462677 date=1326360297]
There was a guy reading from the rule book (literally) this morning on SSN. He said that ref's have to consider if there was sufficient space between the ball and the opposing player whereby the tackling player is more than likely to get there first. He also said there had to be intent.

Watch it again, he doesn't even look at Lescott, he looks at the ball all the way, Lescott gets there after the ball was played. It wasn't a sending off, but then neither was Kompany's. Just because Kompany's was a fuck up, it doesn't determine the decision over Glen Jo's, if anything, the latter should be held as an example of why Kompany shouldn't have walked, not the reverse.
[/quote]

What was their conclusion Mark?
[/quote]

That it wasn't a sending off, by the letter of the law, but they said the one thing that everyone forgets is that a massive amount of 'the law' is the ref's interpretation. Ultimately, he got there before Lescott did (in sufficient time) and from the replays he doesn't take his eye off the ball at all and from the angle he is at, they are challenging almost at 90 degrees to one another.

If the law was black & white and a two footed challenge in whatever circumstance was a straight red, then yeah, that's how alot of people are interpreting it, but that's not what the rules state, I think there were three or four considerations in there.
 
Well if you're going by what Mark's just said about the discussion, on the rules, on SSN this morning then he wasnt really a lucky boy.

I dont know to be honest
 
I think he would have been unlucky to have been sent off. The difference between his and the Kompany tackle is that for Johnson was challenging for a ball where as Kompany was tackling a player. Kompanys was far more dangerous in my opinion. Having said that, I think Johnson should have got a booking, as it was dangerous, just not as dangerous as Kompany's.
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=48212.msg1462771#msg1462771 date=1326366455]
I thought if you jump in 2 footed it was deemed a red card offence mate (sorry if i'm quiffing).
[/quote]

No, as far as I can see there's nothing in the rules about 2 footed tackles. What's there is dangerous tackles, it's just that two footed tackles are generally dangerous.
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=48212.msg1462771#msg1462771 date=1326366455]
I thought if you jump in 2 footed it was deemed a red card offence mate (sorry if i'm quiffing).
[/quote]

nope, that's not a rule.
 
So all of this publicity probably means we'll be 'owed' a red card in a forthcoming game. Just to re-establish balance in the universe.
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48212.msg1462921#msg1462921 date=1326377856]
Former Premier League referee Dermot Gallagher tells H & J he would have sent off Liverpool defender Glen Johnson for his challenge on Joleon Lescott last night.

According to the rules, it was a red card.

Link: http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/hawksbee-and-jacobs/blog/2012-01-12/gallagher-johnsons-challenge-lescott-was-red-card-current-climate
[/quote]

Graham Poll said the opposite in another interview the same day.
 
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