I don't really get it because he jumped in 2 footed at the ball, not the man...the city player was never in any danger because he was too far away from the ball. Surely the ref got it right?
two footed challenges
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[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=48212.msg1462674#msg1462674 date=1326360143]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48212.msg1462660#msg1462660 date=1326358683]
What if Lescott had lunged in order to reach the ball?
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I have asked Spion to prove this with a demo on Rosco at the drinkies footie match.
[/quote]
Noted and happy to assist.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48212.msg1462660#msg1462660 date=1326358683]
What if Lescott had lunged in order to reach the ball?
[/quote]
I have asked Spion to prove this with a demo on Rosco at the drinkies footie match.
[/quote]
Noted and happy to assist.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=48212.msg1462930#msg1462930 date=1326378417]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48212.msg1462921#msg1462921 date=1326377856]
Former Premier League referee Dermot Gallagher tells H & J he would have sent off Liverpool defender Glen Johnson for his challenge on Joleon Lescott last night.
According to the rules, it was a red card.
Link: http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/hawksbee-and-jacobs/blog/2012-01-12/gallagher-johnsons-challenge-lescott-was-red-card-current-climate
[/quote]
Graham Poll said the opposite in another interview the same day.
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Said the same about Kompany and they appealed. Wonder what happened?
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48212.msg1462921#msg1462921 date=1326377856]
Former Premier League referee Dermot Gallagher tells H & J he would have sent off Liverpool defender Glen Johnson for his challenge on Joleon Lescott last night.
According to the rules, it was a red card.
Link: http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/hawksbee-and-jacobs/blog/2012-01-12/gallagher-johnsons-challenge-lescott-was-red-card-current-climate
[/quote]
Graham Poll said the opposite in another interview the same day.
[/quote]
Said the same about Kompany and they appealed. Wonder what happened?
Ah yes, the famously transparent, independent and fair-minded FA appeal process. How could I have doubted it?
I love all of this "Lescot was too far away from the ball"...
An inch or two to the right, and Lescot's leg is broken. A second slower, and Lescot's leg is broken.
I just don't equate all this "Man up" stuff with making unnecessary two-footed '18 inches off the ground' lunges ok. They're not, that was an insane challange by Glen last night.
If that was Wayne Rooney on Stevie G, we'd be howling for the death penalty.
Oh, and I don't think that Kompany's was a red, by the way... I'm all for crunching tackles - They're an art form when done correctly. But that was very, very dangerous last night.
An inch or two to the right, and Lescot's leg is broken. A second slower, and Lescot's leg is broken.
I just don't equate all this "Man up" stuff with making unnecessary two-footed '18 inches off the ground' lunges ok. They're not, that was an insane challange by Glen last night.
If that was Wayne Rooney on Stevie G, we'd be howling for the death penalty.
Oh, and I don't think that Kompany's was a red, by the way... I'm all for crunching tackles - They're an art form when done correctly. But that was very, very dangerous last night.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=48212.msg1462962#msg1462962 date=1326380323]
I love all of this "Lescot was too far away from the ball"...
An inch or two to the right, and Lescot's leg is broken. A second slower, and Lescot's leg is broken.
I just don't equate all this "Man up" stuff with making unnecessary two-footed '18 inches off the ground' lunges ok. They're not, that was an insane challange by Glen last night.
If that was Wayne Rooney on Stevie G, we'd be howling for the death penalty.
Oh, and I don't think that Kompany's was a red, by the way... I'm all for crunching tackles - They're an art form when done correctly. But that was very, very dangerous last night.
[/quote]
Exactly, was about to write the exact sentence earlier but I hate typing on my phone.
I can understand that we're all biased but come on.
I love all of this "Lescot was too far away from the ball"...
An inch or two to the right, and Lescot's leg is broken. A second slower, and Lescot's leg is broken.
I just don't equate all this "Man up" stuff with making unnecessary two-footed '18 inches off the ground' lunges ok. They're not, that was an insane challange by Glen last night.
If that was Wayne Rooney on Stevie G, we'd be howling for the death penalty.
Oh, and I don't think that Kompany's was a red, by the way... I'm all for crunching tackles - They're an art form when done correctly. But that was very, very dangerous last night.
[/quote]
Exactly, was about to write the exact sentence earlier but I hate typing on my phone.
I can understand that we're all biased but come on.
If it was Kompanys tackle I'd be "howling for the death penalty".
Johnsons? Not so much.
Johnsons? Not so much.
I thought they were both bad.
also if a ref sees an offence and takes action (for example gives a yellow) then that decision can't be retrospectively edited but if the ref sees the incident and awards nothing it can be retrospectively changed. didn't know that, found out today. so if the fa wanted to ban johnson they could.
also if a ref sees an offence and takes action (for example gives a yellow) then that decision can't be retrospectively edited but if the ref sees the incident and awards nothing it can be retrospectively changed. didn't know that, found out today. so if the fa wanted to ban johnson they could.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=48212.msg1462962#msg1462962 date=1326380323]
I love all of this "Lescot was too far away from the ball"...
An inch or two to the right, and Lescot's leg is broken. A second slower, and Lescot's leg is broken.
I just don't equate all this "Man up" stuff with making unnecessary two-footed '18 inches off the ground' lunges ok. They're not, that was an insane challange by Glen last night.
If that was Wayne Rooney on Stevie G, we'd be howling for the death penalty.
Oh, and I don't think that Kompany's was a red, by the way... I'm all for crunching tackles - They're an art form when done correctly. But that was very, very dangerous last night.
[/quote]
Can you please explain how Kompany's was less dangerous than Johnson's?
Kompany went studs up directly into the path of Nani. Nani had to jump to get out of the way.
Johnson went across the path of Lescott. Lescott carried on with his run and made contact with Johnson near his thigh as Johnson slid across.
Both were attacking a ball that was not in any one's control.
Both were "two footed"....
As for your comment stating it was "inches" apart from breaking Lescott's legs, you would find that in reality there would have been at least a feet or two gap between johnson's feet and Lescott's at the exact moment when Johnson touches the ball. The proof is in front of your eyes. If Lescott caught Johnson on the ankle, i would say it was very close....not in this instance. It appear's closer because it always does on TV. I have often screamed "why are you not chasing that down", because the perception of distance does not transfer very well to television.
I love all of this "Lescot was too far away from the ball"...
An inch or two to the right, and Lescot's leg is broken. A second slower, and Lescot's leg is broken.
I just don't equate all this "Man up" stuff with making unnecessary two-footed '18 inches off the ground' lunges ok. They're not, that was an insane challange by Glen last night.
If that was Wayne Rooney on Stevie G, we'd be howling for the death penalty.
Oh, and I don't think that Kompany's was a red, by the way... I'm all for crunching tackles - They're an art form when done correctly. But that was very, very dangerous last night.
[/quote]
Can you please explain how Kompany's was less dangerous than Johnson's?
Kompany went studs up directly into the path of Nani. Nani had to jump to get out of the way.
Johnson went across the path of Lescott. Lescott carried on with his run and made contact with Johnson near his thigh as Johnson slid across.
Both were attacking a ball that was not in any one's control.
Both were "two footed"....
As for your comment stating it was "inches" apart from breaking Lescott's legs, you would find that in reality there would have been at least a feet or two gap between johnson's feet and Lescott's at the exact moment when Johnson touches the ball. The proof is in front of your eyes. If Lescott caught Johnson on the ankle, i would say it was very close....not in this instance. It appear's closer because it always does on TV. I have often screamed "why are you not chasing that down", because the perception of distance does not transfer very well to television.
His standing foot is about a yard from the ball, the other one is stretching towards it. For the Kompany one, both of Nanis feet are beside the ball and he has to jump to avoid. There's a big difference, which I thought was obvious to see.
I still don't think it was a foul. Johnson was always gonna win that, Lescott should have pulled out not the other way around.
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=48212.msg1462997#msg1462997 date=1326381725]
Lescott deserved a red for kicking Magic up the arse as well.
[/quote]
Kenny4 knows it...
Gerry...it's pointless to tell them the obvious. The evidence is in front of their eyes, and they can't see it.
Whaddapie, i hope you realize that players are not actually about 5 cm tall as you see on the GIF there.
And you still haven't said how it's worse than Kompany's. Some times it's easy to over compensate in the interest of coming across as a "Fair person" in taking an impartial view.
Lescott deserved a red for kicking Magic up the arse as well.
[/quote]
Kenny4 knows it...
Gerry...it's pointless to tell them the obvious. The evidence is in front of their eyes, and they can't see it.
Whaddapie, i hope you realize that players are not actually about 5 cm tall as you see on the GIF there.
And you still haven't said how it's worse than Kompany's. Some times it's easy to over compensate in the interest of coming across as a "Fair person" in taking an impartial view.
KJ - Glen's up in the air, launching himself, two-footed at the ball like a missile... ANYTHING goes wrong, and all of his weight and momentum lands on Lescot's leg, with nowhere to go but the turf.
Kompany's was far more like a 'normal' sliding tackle, low to the ground, with all the momentum moving paralell to the ground, not straight into it.
It's not about being fair - I just think GJ's was worse.
Oh, and "they" can see it - "They" just don't agree. Doesn't matter a jot where Lescot's standing leg is, if all of Johnson's weight lands on his kicking foot, does it..?
Kompany's was far more like a 'normal' sliding tackle, low to the ground, with all the momentum moving paralell to the ground, not straight into it.
It's not about being fair - I just think GJ's was worse.
Oh, and "they" can see it - "They" just don't agree. Doesn't matter a jot where Lescot's standing leg is, if all of Johnson's weight lands on his kicking foot, does it..?
One is going at a player, the other the player moves into the line of it. Glens would have been worse if Lescott was already in control of the ball.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=48212.msg1463042#msg1463042 date=1326384299]
KJ - Glen's up in the air, launching himself, two-footed at the ball like a missile... ANYTHING goes wrong, and all of his weight and momentum lands on Lescot's leg, with nowhere to go but the turf.
Kompany's was far more like a 'normal' sliding tackle, low to the ground, with all the momentum moving paralell to the ground, not straight into it.
It's not about being fair - I just think GJ's was worse.
Oh, and "they" can see it - "They" just don't agree. Doesn't matter a jot where Lescot's standing leg is, if all of Johnson's weight lands on his kicking foot, does it..?
[/quote]
But it was never going to, Whadda mate. Lescott simply wasn't there when Magic's foot kicked the ball. He arrived afterwards, sufficiently so to tread on Magic's @rse.
KJ - Glen's up in the air, launching himself, two-footed at the ball like a missile... ANYTHING goes wrong, and all of his weight and momentum lands on Lescot's leg, with nowhere to go but the turf.
Kompany's was far more like a 'normal' sliding tackle, low to the ground, with all the momentum moving paralell to the ground, not straight into it.
It's not about being fair - I just think GJ's was worse.
Oh, and "they" can see it - "They" just don't agree. Doesn't matter a jot where Lescot's standing leg is, if all of Johnson's weight lands on his kicking foot, does it..?
[/quote]
But it was never going to, Whadda mate. Lescott simply wasn't there when Magic's foot kicked the ball. He arrived afterwards, sufficiently so to tread on Magic's @rse.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=48212.msg1463042#msg1463042 date=1326384299]
KJ - Glen's up in the air, launching himself, two-footed at the ball like a missile... ANYTHING goes wrong, and all of his weight and momentum lands on Lescot's leg, with nowhere to go but the turf.
Kompany's was far more like a 'normal' sliding tackle, low to the ground, with all the momentum moving paralell to the ground, not straight into it.
[/quote]
Kompany was "up in the ait, launching himself, two-footed at the ball like a missile" as well...
The only difference is that he was doing that in to the direction of Nani...
Johnson did it across the path of Lescott and Lescott touches Johnson near the thigh as he slides across.....
I really don't see where you are coming from when you say..."I just think GJ's was worse"
KJ - Glen's up in the air, launching himself, two-footed at the ball like a missile... ANYTHING goes wrong, and all of his weight and momentum lands on Lescot's leg, with nowhere to go but the turf.
Kompany's was far more like a 'normal' sliding tackle, low to the ground, with all the momentum moving paralell to the ground, not straight into it.
[/quote]
Kompany was "up in the ait, launching himself, two-footed at the ball like a missile" as well...
The only difference is that he was doing that in to the direction of Nani...
Johnson did it across the path of Lescott and Lescott touches Johnson near the thigh as he slides across.....
I really don't see where you are coming from when you say..."I just think GJ's was worse"
Ok, fair enough... Seeing Kompany's again, he was higher than I remembered.
I just think that GJ's was more dangerous - The angle of the tackle, they way both feet were together, etc...
You don't have to agree with me, mate. But again I say that if somebody had tackled SG like that last night, I think most here would be singing a different tune.
I just think that GJ's was more dangerous - The angle of the tackle, they way both feet were together, etc...
You don't have to agree with me, mate. But again I say that if somebody had tackled SG like that last night, I think most here would be singing a different tune.
Incidentally this thread reminded me of how good Gerrard was when it came to tackling. The pace at which he tackled was really really scarry.
http://www.francetudiant.com/videos/?v=9l2ZFcikza0
No Whaddapie, i don't think the reaction from me would be any different had Liverpool been on the receiving end of a tackle like GJ's.
http://www.francetudiant.com/videos/?v=9l2ZFcikza0
No Whaddapie, i don't think the reaction from me would be any different had Liverpool been on the receiving end of a tackle like GJ's.
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=48212.msg1463104#msg1463104 date=1326387757]
Incidentally this thread reminded me of how good Gerrard was when it came to tackling. The pace at which he tackled was really really scarry.
http://www.francetudiant.com/videos/?v=9l2ZFcikza0
No Whaddapie, i don't think the reaction from me would be any different had Liverpool been on the receiving end of a tackle like GJ's.
[/quote]
Why do the people who put together those compilation videos always use shite music?
Incidentally this thread reminded me of how good Gerrard was when it came to tackling. The pace at which he tackled was really really scarry.
http://www.francetudiant.com/videos/?v=9l2ZFcikza0
No Whaddapie, i don't think the reaction from me would be any different had Liverpool been on the receiving end of a tackle like GJ's.
[/quote]
Why do the people who put together those compilation videos always use shite music?
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=48212.msg1462991#msg1462991 date=1326381534]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48212.msg1462477#msg1462477 date=1326321276]
[/quote]
At least a foot or two gap, KJ? Really?
[/quote]
That angle doesn't do it justice, if you see it from the front you can see Johnson looking at the ball and getting there in enough time. Also, that picture is what's doing the rounds on the net by bellends asking for the book to be thrown at him, go figure. Watch it again from the other angle, he's not looking at the player, he's looking at the ball and he gets there first, it's good judgement and well timed.
All this stuff about whether or not it was a second later is neither nor there, it wasn't. If Andy Carroll had that chance on his left foot he'd have scored. If Gerrard had hit the ball an inch to the right the keeper would have saved it. It's down to decision making, he made it in a split second, got the ball and didn't injure the player, ergo, he got it right.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48212.msg1462477#msg1462477 date=1326321276]
[/quote]
At least a foot or two gap, KJ? Really?
[/quote]
That angle doesn't do it justice, if you see it from the front you can see Johnson looking at the ball and getting there in enough time. Also, that picture is what's doing the rounds on the net by bellends asking for the book to be thrown at him, go figure. Watch it again from the other angle, he's not looking at the player, he's looking at the ball and he gets there first, it's good judgement and well timed.
All this stuff about whether or not it was a second later is neither nor there, it wasn't. If Andy Carroll had that chance on his left foot he'd have scored. If Gerrard had hit the ball an inch to the right the keeper would have saved it. It's down to decision making, he made it in a split second, got the ball and didn't injure the player, ergo, he got it right.
I agree to some extent Mark, but the reality is that a certain percentage of the time he will make that decision and get it wrong, and the technique he's using, when he gets it wrong, is far more likely to result in injury, and, for that matter, a red card.
And there's a logic in curtailing that, even though it means players are playing a little less close to the edge, it's not worth it. If he makes that split second calculation a little wrong, legs and ankles get snapped.
And there's a logic in curtailing that, even though it means players are playing a little less close to the edge, it's not worth it. If he makes that split second calculation a little wrong, legs and ankles get snapped.
Don't agree with your logic, Mark. If the only thing that makes this a good tackle is that there wasn't an injury at the end of it...
I will accept that this angle could make it look worse than it was, though... I haven't seen another angle. Still don't know why anybody would go in with two feet like that - You're asking for trouble.
I will accept that this angle could make it look worse than it was, though... I haven't seen another angle. Still don't know why anybody would go in with two feet like that - You're asking for trouble.
If you're out drunk in your car and you get pulled over, it doesn't matter that you didn't cause an accident, it's that you were more likely to.
The law is about intent and likelihoods.
Anyways, it's also why the Ngog 'dive' against Brum was a stonewall pen. He had to jump out of the way or get fouled. That is a foul. They don't often get given but thems the rules.
The law is about intent and likelihoods.
Anyways, it's also why the Ngog 'dive' against Brum was a stonewall pen. He had to jump out of the way or get fouled. That is a foul. They don't often get given but thems the rules.
I havnt read this thread as it would probably annoy the piss out of me.
But my take on both challenges is this.
Neither was a red card as both won the ball. If we are going to award red cards for what might happen, then shirt pulling should be a red card as you could easily twist your knee when being pulled back. Going up to win a header should really be a red too as you could (if the player opposing happened to be in your way) break someones nose. Keepers punching the ball should DEFINATELY be a red as lets face it, a punch could kill the opposing player.
I think its a shame that the FA didnt come out afterwards and say that although the tackle was aggressive it wasnt a foul and as such overturned the referees decision. No one would think less of the referee for getting it wrong, shit happens. But now they have built a rod for their own back and every semi lunging challenge is going to be under scrutiny as every team is going to look back at the Kompany incident and expect similar challenges to be punished.
IF Kompany missed the ball and caught the man, then its a straight red. Ditto Johnson. But neither did, and its ridiculous to red card either for what might have happened if they hadnt been WORLD CLASS DEFENDERS who judged what they were doing perfectly.
I dont want to see anyone injured, of course not, but its inevitable that players will be injured again and again, the referees job (and more importantly the FA's) is to differentiate between what is and isnt a red card. Not wether there was intention or not but wether or not the challenge in itself warranted a red card. What MIGHT happen is not reason enough to send someone off.
I assume a lot of people are saying both or one of was a red card. And all I can say is I dont agree. You either commit a foul or you dont, IF you commit a foul then you have to hope that the referee can distinguish between intent and nastiness, and a good old strong challenge to try and win the ball. Neither Kompany or Johnson commited any foul and the likes of Spearing (who did catch the player with his trailing leg) should imo have got a yellow at worst as there wasnt any intention to foul a player.
I would much rather the FA and referees crusade was against some of the things that are ruining our game like diving, shirt pulling etc.
And once again i would like to point out the mindboggling hypocrisy of an organisation who appealled against a player who deliberately kicked an opponent, who on the other hand wont admit a mistake was made by a referee in a game.
But my take on both challenges is this.
Neither was a red card as both won the ball. If we are going to award red cards for what might happen, then shirt pulling should be a red card as you could easily twist your knee when being pulled back. Going up to win a header should really be a red too as you could (if the player opposing happened to be in your way) break someones nose. Keepers punching the ball should DEFINATELY be a red as lets face it, a punch could kill the opposing player.
I think its a shame that the FA didnt come out afterwards and say that although the tackle was aggressive it wasnt a foul and as such overturned the referees decision. No one would think less of the referee for getting it wrong, shit happens. But now they have built a rod for their own back and every semi lunging challenge is going to be under scrutiny as every team is going to look back at the Kompany incident and expect similar challenges to be punished.
IF Kompany missed the ball and caught the man, then its a straight red. Ditto Johnson. But neither did, and its ridiculous to red card either for what might have happened if they hadnt been WORLD CLASS DEFENDERS who judged what they were doing perfectly.
I dont want to see anyone injured, of course not, but its inevitable that players will be injured again and again, the referees job (and more importantly the FA's) is to differentiate between what is and isnt a red card. Not wether there was intention or not but wether or not the challenge in itself warranted a red card. What MIGHT happen is not reason enough to send someone off.
I assume a lot of people are saying both or one of was a red card. And all I can say is I dont agree. You either commit a foul or you dont, IF you commit a foul then you have to hope that the referee can distinguish between intent and nastiness, and a good old strong challenge to try and win the ball. Neither Kompany or Johnson commited any foul and the likes of Spearing (who did catch the player with his trailing leg) should imo have got a yellow at worst as there wasnt any intention to foul a player.
I would much rather the FA and referees crusade was against some of the things that are ruining our game like diving, shirt pulling etc.
And once again i would like to point out the mindboggling hypocrisy of an organisation who appealled against a player who deliberately kicked an opponent, who on the other hand wont admit a mistake was made by a referee in a game.
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