You chose the arbitrary logic. You explain it
Suarez Wow
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You chose the arbitrary logic. You explain it
I don't think anybody is laying into Suarez. Let's just not get carried away with all the superlatives. He is not a legend yet and has a way to go still. Much like Sturridge, they have all the tools to become legends. Having said that, its silverware that distinguishes the legends from the greats.
I don't need to. Anyone who has been watching Suarez's amazing performances for the past season or so (even when the ball wasn't hitting the back of the net) doesn't even need to consider whether he is fantastically talented or not, it's just that obvious that it really isn't even a question.
The only questions here are why you think to reduce this to a 3 month period, when it's been going on ever since he arrived here, and what does he have to do to earn your plaudits ? His ability isn't all about goal scoring which is what you seem to have reduced it to.
Not really. Jimmy Greaves anyone ? Yes I know he got a WC medal (eventually, just 30+ years after the event) but that is all he has to show despite being a legend 😉
We can add our Robbie to that list too and also Tom Finney, Stanley Matthews and even Booby Moore didn't win a league title.
If talent doesn't translate into results, and success then you need to rethink what it is you value in a player. Does anyone think Joe Cole was great ?
Is Suarez talented, absolutely. Is he one of the worlds best ? On his first half of the season form he absolutely was. During the rest of his time here he was a level below it.
It's not me that's taking three months as indicative of his entire career - you are. I'm saying look at the totality of his time here. He is not the greatest to ever play for us.
he's not even in the argument yet for me. And Bruce Lee agrees:
Hahaha.
The picture wins the thread. And you possibly just won the internet.
Well done.
The picture wins the thread. And you possibly just won the internet.
Well done.
Eh ? Did I even say he was (the greatest to play for us) ? No I didn't - nor even anything remotely close. I also didn't say anything about 3 months or in fact give any timeframe - you are completely off track here (or getting your posters mixed up).
And I think it is you who needs to have a rethink if you think team success equates to individual talent because you can have a superb player playing in rather less than a successful team (Stevie G. can tell you that for the greater part of his career) which doesn't make them any less of a player.
Suarez is pretty much universally accepted as one of the Top 3 players in the world right now - you don't get there without being supremely talented, longevity certainly not being a factor.
'Do we really need him?'
The only reason i can think of why Suarez has not been scoring is simply 'cos he's knackered.
Yesterday's match was pretty obvious. There were times he was almost dragging his feet to move.
And yet even when he's lethargic, he still played a pivotal role in most of our goals.
I can't wait when he has a proper rest.
Yesterday's match was pretty obvious. There were times he was almost dragging his feet to move.
And yet even when he's lethargic, he still played a pivotal role in most of our goals.
I can't wait when he has a proper rest.
The first post in the thread says he is hands down our greatest player.
I'm arguing against that, you're arguing against me
I did say in football ability only Wiz and on that note yes I believe he is. I've never seen a player past or present whether it be live or on DVD possess all the attribute Suarez does. He's incredible
I guess the difference there is I think he's been superb and our best player since he first stepped foot on the turf. He should have gotten poy last year and should this year too. 3 months me hole. He's been out of this world good since day one.
For the record I should edit the original post to say most talented player to play for us ever. That line wasn't put in
to create that debate. This thread should be to jizz fest over the incredible fact that Suarez is now top goal scorer and top assist getter in the league. And all after missing the first 5 games. He's just insanely, absolutely insanely good.
Ross you asked if we really needed him and whether we would score more and perform better as a tram without him being the pivot earlier this season. Well he just went out and proved he can adapt and switch roles for the greater good of the team and swap his flurry of individual goals for an even bigger set of team goals.
You should be the first one eating the biggest slice of humble pie regarding Suarez.
Your 3 month comment is an insult to your intelligence. Suarez has been a different class since day 1 and the best player in the league for 2 seasons
to create that debate. This thread should be to jizz fest over the incredible fact that Suarez is now top goal scorer and top assist getter in the league. And all after missing the first 5 games. He's just insanely, absolutely insanely good.
Ross you asked if we really needed him and whether we would score more and perform better as a tram without him being the pivot earlier this season. Well he just went out and proved he can adapt and switch roles for the greater good of the team and swap his flurry of individual goals for an even bigger set of team goals.
You should be the first one eating the biggest slice of humble pie regarding Suarez.
Your 3 month comment is an insult to your intelligence. Suarez has been a different class since day 1 and the best player in the league for 2 seasons
Like I said this thread should be about how amazing he has been.
I know you acknowledge his brilliance but utterly hate him. Do you still want him out of the club at the earliest possible moment?
Suarez is in the top 3 in the world these days and is the best player in the league.
Not only is he topscorer but also has the most assists. Not bad for a player we apparantly should have sold as he couldnt hit the back of the net.
He's not close to being the best player ever to play for us. But that could happen if he stays and wins some titles. Ability wise he's up there though. Easy.
Not only is he topscorer but also has the most assists. Not bad for a player we apparantly should have sold as he couldnt hit the back of the net.
He's not close to being the best player ever to play for us. But that could happen if he stays and wins some titles. Ability wise he's up there though. Easy.
Not my effort but good enough for now.
I eagerly await Dreamy's next thread title after 'So pace' and Suarez wow'.
I get the fact we want to reserve the term legend for players who care more for the club and won more. I agree.
But for sheer individual brilliance, and flair, it's hard to argue, trophies or not, he's one of the best attacking players in the world. When have we been able to say that before? I think it's hard to deny he is one of, if not the most talented players to ever play with us.
If you don't agree, name better flair players, better individual flair players? Kenny? Barnes, Keegan?
If not Suarez, who?
But for sheer individual brilliance, and flair, it's hard to argue, trophies or not, he's one of the best attacking players in the world. When have we been able to say that before? I think it's hard to deny he is one of, if not the most talented players to ever play with us.
If you don't agree, name better flair players, better individual flair players? Kenny? Barnes, Keegan?
If not Suarez, who?
Well, you've named a couple right there. If you saw Barnes at his best, skating past opponents like they weren't there or saw Kenny in his pomp as he eschewed power for sheer artistry then you'd no doubt agree.
I know many will disagree with me but I always felt one of the players who demonstrated the most flair was Keegan. He was hustle and bustle but he did some things with the ball that defied physics. He had a goal disallowed against Southhampton due to another player offside. I kid you not it was as good as Van Basten's wonder goal.
If I listen to my old man he tells me there were others before Keegan who would lay claim to this title. Maybe Portly or some of our older posters could add some more names.
I'm not arguing that Luis is awesomely talented but sometimes its like a few posters want to hand these titles out as quickly as possible.
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I know many will disagree with me but I always felt one of the players who demonstrated the most flair was Keegan. He was hustle and bustle but he did some things with the ball that defied physics. He had a goal disallowed against Southhampton due to another player offside. I kid you not it was as good as Van Basten's wonder goal.
If I listen to my old man he tells me there were others before Keegan who would lay claim to this title. Maybe Portly or some of our older posters could add some more names.
I'm not arguing that Luis is awesomely talented but sometimes its like a few posters want to hand these titles out as quickly as possible.
Sent from my HTC One XL
I did see all three, but only remember Kenny and Barnes mostly. But as a kid, it was hard to appreciate. I'd also strangely say Litmanen was one of the most talented players to ever play for us, but obviously he wasn't consistent or brilliant regularly for us, but his passing and insight was, well, just incredible when he was "on".
A different type of flair. Certainly not a legend, but I loved his pinpoint passes.
A different type of flair. Certainly not a legend, but I loved his pinpoint passes.
@localny I was actually going to mention Litmanen - possibly the most disappointing signing I've ever witnessed. I loved him - a maestro almost without peer who never got the opportunity to demonstrate those talents for us. I'll probably never know if it was due to injuries or Houllier not playing him. Would love to have included him but, as you say, he never really showed it for us.
Sent from my HTC One XL
Sent from my HTC One XL
Barnes was insanely good for about two years. It was terrific watching him.
@Wizardry - someone recently published this suggesting it was more a management
What exactly went down with Jari Litmanen at Anfield/
Finally, the atmosphere seems perfect for getting down to the nitty-gritty and Liverpool and the year 2001.
Litmanen thought that Liverpool really wanted him, for the team had already tried twice before to secure his services. But now the club was just keeping Litmanen on the bench, a player whose weekly salary was in the tens of thousands of pounds.
Litmanen admits that he, too, has thought about this.
First he talks about the differences between the British and the Dutch societies: at Ajax the manager’s door was always open. In Liverpool nobody even dared to think about opening the door.
“I really liked Liverpool. There, however, the manager was the boss and the players simply did what they were told. I never thought that I could go and voice my opinion without this leading to negative repercussions.”
Litmanen says that wherever he goes he still runs into Liverpool fans whose first question is always the same: 'how come you weren't given more playing time?'
In the documentary, Litmanen explains how assistant manager Phil Thompson once told him that he had played a good game but unfortunately could not be given a start in the next match.
“There was something mystical about it, and I never did find out what it was. I always tried to do the job well, but it seemingly made no difference.”
“But - it is just a game, isn't it”, Litmanen declares, and he seems to believe what he says.
Perhaps Jari Litmanen has forgiven Liverpool FC for wasting his time and talents.
I have not.
What exactly went down with Jari Litmanen at Anfield/
Finally, the atmosphere seems perfect for getting down to the nitty-gritty and Liverpool and the year 2001.
Litmanen thought that Liverpool really wanted him, for the team had already tried twice before to secure his services. But now the club was just keeping Litmanen on the bench, a player whose weekly salary was in the tens of thousands of pounds.
Litmanen admits that he, too, has thought about this.
First he talks about the differences between the British and the Dutch societies: at Ajax the manager’s door was always open. In Liverpool nobody even dared to think about opening the door.
“I really liked Liverpool. There, however, the manager was the boss and the players simply did what they were told. I never thought that I could go and voice my opinion without this leading to negative repercussions.”
Litmanen says that wherever he goes he still runs into Liverpool fans whose first question is always the same: 'how come you weren't given more playing time?'
In the documentary, Litmanen explains how assistant manager Phil Thompson once told him that he had played a good game but unfortunately could not be given a start in the next match.
“There was something mystical about it, and I never did find out what it was. I always tried to do the job well, but it seemingly made no difference.”
“But - it is just a game, isn't it”, Litmanen declares, and he seems to believe what he says.
Perhaps Jari Litmanen has forgiven Liverpool FC for wasting his time and talents.
I have not.
My favourite player ever. Watching him as an 8/9 year old, he was fucking unbelievable.
He's a really nice bloke as well.
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