Roy a step backward!

[Rouge Penguin]

Its about time we realised we're not greater than the sum of our parts.

Most England managers really seem to get the worst out of their players. Game after game they manage to make them look slow, tired and unskilled. Players that at club level have pace, were getting caught by old men with old legs.

Closing down? Im not sure i saw that last night, i saw plenty of stand still and hope they run at me. Italy's closing down was 3 players around the ball when ever they lost it, thats closing down.

Roy couldnt even bring himself to say we were shit, yet every single person on the planet thinks it. Im fearful of qualifying for the next world cup with budgie in charge. 4-4-2 with no flexibilty is terrible tactics.

Above all i blame the pressure of playing Rooney, who from the moment he started the tournament looked fucked and had no touch. We at least looked half interested playing Carrol Welbeck etc in the first 2 games.

 

[gkmacca]

As I said, I think Hodgson didn't have much choice but to handle things as he did, so he deserves to be judged more rigorously once he's had time to build a better balanced squad and start the WC matches, but I think his best bet would be to appoint a progressive-minded coach to work under him. He's quite a good figurehead for England, his downbeat attitude is far more suited to England than those who feed the hype, and he has actually got the usual bunch of neanderthals and solipsists to behave with something like the dignity and discipline shown routinely by most other international teams, so he's worth persevering with. It may just come down to whether he's willing to change the habit of a lifetime and show more flexibility with his tactics.

 

[Rouge Penguin]

Roy probably thinks Tactics is how you describe Spanish style of play

 

[Hansern]

If Roy stays in charge for Brazil'14, and England qualify. I think you'll see the exact same performance and tactics. Its what he knows.

 

[gkmacca]

We definitely need to implement a long term plan, as Spain and Germany have both done, it takes time though, unfortunately.

Yes, although hearing Southgate waffle vaguely yesterday about teaching five year olds wasn't very encouraging. Of course grass roots youth football needs a plan, and the youth England teams need better coaching and management to provide not only uniform styles but also tournament experience (having a man like Pearce in charge is just laughable), but plenty can also be done with older players in the full squad. It's no good someone like Southgate hiding behind a very sketchy plan that won't bear fruit for about 15 years or so. It's important something is put in place that runs all the way through from youth level to senior level. To hear Southgate speak you'd think everyone has to stand at a bus stop for a generation before anything at all improves.

 

[RolandG]

If Roy stays in charge for Brazil'14, and England qualify. I think you'll see the exact same performance and tactics. Its what he knows.

Hard to see Roy change to be honest. He's done the same thing and replicated the same tactics wherever he's gone.

 

[gkmacca]

Hard to see Roy change to be honest. He's done the same thing and replicated the same tactics wherever he's gone.

True. But bringing Neville in was, for Roy, quite an imaginative move, and it's now landed him with someone who'll argue with him about such things. At this stage in his career, it will be interesting to see how he responds. It'll be a surprise to see any flexibility, but we'll see.

 

[RolandG]

True. But bringing Neville in was, for Roy, quite an imaginative move, and it's now landed him with someone who'll argue with him about such things. At this stage in his career, it will be interesting to see how he responds. It'll be a surprise to see any flexibility, but we'll see.

England looked devoid of confidence against the Italians. They just sat back and admired them.

 

[gene hughes]

I thought England were great and did really well.

 

[gkmacca]

England looked devoid of confidence against the Italians. They just sat back and admired them.

I wouldn't say admired. Feared seems more like it. But there are so many things that could be dealt with in the short term alongside all of the long-term planning. I don't believe, for example, that modern day players can't be taught how to cut out some of the more stupid habits that have been a feature of the English game. Take yesterday when England had the ball in the middle of the pitch, with plenty of movement and options ahead (this was early on when things weren't so dire), and yet the player turned round and hit the ball all the way back to Hart, who then punted it straight back to the centre where Italy won it. Now that's just senseless yet it happens over and over again. I just cannot believe, in an age where players are supposedly shown elaborate DVD analyses and expected to absorb quite recondite tactical information, they can't be taught that you don't give possession away so cheaply. These things should make any coach feel anger and shame.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

One point I'd like to make is shutting down Pirlo wouldn't have necessarily giving them any easier a time against the Italians. Montolivo was there for a reason - and while not nearly as imposing as Pirlo, is a very capable passer and had was holding the ball a lot (interchanging with Pirlo until the later stages of the game).

 

[RolandG]

Macca, the Italians had nothing to fear. Pirlo was something to enjoy watching and who could blame them. Poetry in motion. I just loved the way he spread the ball without hesitation.

 

[gene hughes]

England played well in the group and the style of play was well suited to the players they have. They were knocked outin the last eight because there are about six better teams than England in Europe. I don't see how that's Roy's fault.

 

[gkmacca]

Macca, the Italians had nothing to fear. Pirlo was something to enjoy watching and who could blame them. Poetry in motion. I just loved the way he spread the ball without hesitation.

I agree. I don't honestly believe the England players played the way they did because they admire Pirlo. But he is great to watch.

 

[dave2]

England played well in the group and the style of play was well suited to the players they have. They were knocked outin the last eight because there are about six better teams than England in Europe. I don't see how that's Roy's fault.

It's the nature that they were knocked out. Which is Roy's fault as that's how he set them up to place. Far too negative. People will say we were unlucky because we lost on pens but the facts are Italy had countless good chances and were they just a little clinical England would have took a beating.

 

[gene hughes]

Maybe. But if England had come out and played they could have let in 3 or 4. Maybe their tactics were realistic and kept them in with a shout against superior opposition.

 

[dave2]

No. They should have let 3 or 4 in anyway even with the shithouse tactics they played last night. Bar some last ditch tackles and awful finishing from the Italians it could have looked real bad for England.

Personally I’d have rather seen them have a bit of a go except going into the quarter finals of a tournament clearly playing for a penalty shootout.

I am glad England were eliminated just so I don’t have to endure watching some of the worst tactics played at a major tournament.

 

[RolandG]

I agree. I don't honestly believe the England players played the way they did because they admire Pirlo. But he is great to watch.

England should have faired much better if they played to their potential but its history now.

 

[Delinquent]

We lost on Penalties in the end to Italy, which everyone knows is just the luck of the draw, we could have gone through on another day. It may not have been a good performance but he had two weeks to prepare for the competition and a load of injuries too. A dose of perspective is well lacking in your thoughts on this.

He wouldn't have done things differently if he'd been managing the team for years though mark. I suppose you could congratulate Roy for stamping his style on the team so quickly, because that was about as clear a Roy Hodgson performance as you're ever likely to see. Despite matching up pretty well all over the pitch, we conceded the middle of the park pretty much from the outset, and set about defending the final third of the pitch. To the detriment any attacking threat whatsoever (bar the odd counter attack every half hour or so). It had West Brom written all over it.

I don't buy that we weren't good enough to progress. There's no doubt that we are technically inferior to many of the best teams, but that hasn't come about overnight. It's been the case for as long as I can remember. That England team was plenty good enough to give Italy a run for their money - if only we'd approached the game as if we felt like we had a chance of winning it. By sending them out there like that we were basically handing the initiative to the Italians, and telling the England players that you believe they are inferior to the opposition.

But we all knew this was gonna happen at some stage, so it's hardly surprising.

 

[gkmacca]

No. They should have let 3 or 4 in anyway even with the shithouse tactics they played last night. Bar some last ditch tackles and awful finishing from the Italians it could have looked real bad for England.

Personally I’d have rather seen them have a bit of a go except going into the quarter finals of a tournament clearly playing for a penalty shootout.

I am glad England were eliminated just so I don’t have to endure watching some of the worst tactics played at a major tournament.

If the players had passed the ball better, the tactics wouldn't have seemed so bad. I'm not exactly condoning them, but if the players don't pass the ball accurately and sensibly any plan looks shite.

 

[Hansern]

England were pretty much playing for penalties 20 mins in to the second half. 63/37 posession and 31-8 in shots tells you a story of a team LUCKY to get to penalties.

 

[Fox]

Both ashleys needed to score. Otherwise it would be sudden death. And on top of that, marchisio missed his. England had the upper hand and threw it away. Perennial bottlers on the big stage so it wouldnt surprise me if even if it did go to sudden death, someone else would have missed for england

You say bottle but Cole slotted in a CL final penalty last month. Young was the only bad choice, he had been shot of confidence, his body language was terrible he never even looked at the keeper just at the floor

 

[Hyena]

The point is: There's nothing Roy Hodgson could have done once it when into a penalty shoot-out but getting there made it a 50-50 chance which is fair given the level of the opposition and the amount of preparation he had. He could have done it another way but he chose this way.

It's true that Roy wouldn't have done things differently if he'd been managing the team for years; his team will always be dour and boring. But that's the reason he's perfect for England's Euro campaign. It's always a short term appointment with little / no continuity. Anyone who comes in with a plan to develop a style of play is doomed to failure.  England's 'style' is endemic. The manager just has to come in and get the results knockout football way. Do what it takes to get into the QF, then do whatever you have to. Play for penos every game from the QFs to the Finals if you have to. Greece did it.

Put it this way. We played like this at times on the way to Istanbul too, but I wasn't complaining.

 

[redhorizon2]

The point is: There's nothing Roy Hodgson could have done once it when into a penalty shoot-out but getting there made it a 50-50 chance which is fair given the level of the opposition and the amount of preparation he had. He could have done it another way but he chose this way.

It's true that Roy wouldn't have done things differently if he'd been managing the team for years; his team will always be dour and boring. But that's the reason he's perfect for England's Euro campaign. It's always a short term appointment with little / no continuity. Anyone who comes in with a plan to develop a style of play is doomed to failure.  England's 'style' is endemic. The manager just has to come in and get the results knockout football way. Do what it takes to get into the QF, then do whatever you have to. Play for penos every game from the QFs to the Finals if you have to. Greece did it.

Put it this way. We played like this at times on the way to Istanbul too, but I wasn't complaining.

Roy Hodgeson, Sam Allerdyce, Neil Warnock fall in the same basket as management type. They will give you football that gets you by, great for the likes of Bolton, QPR, WBA etc and small nations But for clubs and big name countries who have ambition and talent, these guys have proved to be disastrous!!!

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Where is the talent in this England side?

 

[Fabio]

Where is the talent in this England side?

Rooney, Gerrard, ox, Cole, terry, johnson, Hart.

 

[Fabio]

Lescott too

To a lesser extent carroll, Welbeck, Walcott, young

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Rooney, Gerrard, ox, Cole, terry, johnson, Hart.

I think you've got a tatsy back four (+Hart), but anywhere else on the pitch when compared to the top six European teams you're very average mate.

I'm no Woy fan, but considering what he had to work with i don't think he did much wrong at all.

 

[Fox]

Rooney, Gerrard, ox, Cole, terry, johnson, Hart.

Adam Johnson (this season he will come good) + Wilshere + Cahill

 

[FoxForceFive]

Walcott shouldn't be within a million miles of an England side, he's yet another swp-a-like, flatters to deceive & the press love him cos he's fast.

Roy Hodgson isnt creating a revolution apparently. Fuck me.

According to him possession only matters in your final third, the fa are gonna start kids playing pass & move footy again on smaller pitches espousing a continental style, & there you have Roy '4-4-2, defend on your 6 yard line against Ukraine, a draw would be utopia' Hodgson.

Its pathetic, if the fa are too spineless to get another foreign manager in for England so be it, but houllier or rafa should be shoe ins to oversee this new system.