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Roy a step backward!

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mark1975 said:
We lost on Penalties in the end to Italy, which everyone knows is just the luck of the draw, we could have gone through on another day. It may not have been a good performance but he had two weeks to prepare for the competition and a load of injuries too. A dose of perspective is well lacking in your thoughts on this.
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yeah but they played for penalties so were always exposing themselves to that "luck of the draw" situation .fair enough it is necessary at times to play that way and well done if it works . But personally i believe you increase your chances for success if you try and take things in your own hands , try to win the game with positive play .

What injuries ? Cahill ? Lescott is of a similar standard and didn't do much wrong . Barry ? prob wouldn't have played ahead of Parker . Lampard ? yeah like that has worked well in the past . Wilshire is fair enough but fuck every team has a few injuries here and there .

Anyway if the fans , players and manager are happy with what they did then fair enough , that's all that matters . I just think they can do better if they weren't so shitehouse , regardless if they only had 2 weeks to prepare (which is their own fault for sacking capello and taking so long to appoint Roy).
 
RedZeppelin III said:
yeah but they played for penalties so were always exposing themselves to that "luck of the draw" situation .fair enough it is necessary at times to play that way and well done if it works . But personally i believe you increase your chances for success if you try and take things in your own hands , try to win the game with positive play .

What injuries ? Cahill ? Lescott is of a similar standard and didn't do much wrong . Barry ? prob wouldn't have played ahead of Parker . Lampard ? yeah like that has worked well in the past . Wilshire is fair enough but fuck every team has a few injuries here and there .

Anyway if the fans , players and manager are happy with what they did then fair enough , that's all that matters . I just think they can do better if they weren't so shitehouse , regardless if they only had 2 weeks to prepare (which is their own fault for sacking capello and taking so long to appoint Roy).
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Hear, Hear!
 
RedZeppelin III said:
yeah but they played for penalties so were always exposing themselves to that "luck of the draw" situation .fair enough it is necessary at times to play that way and well done if it works . But personally i believe you increase your chances for success if you try and take things in your own hands , try to win the game with positive play .

What injuries ? Cahill ? Lescott is of a similar standard and didn't do much wrong . Barry ? prob wouldn't have played ahead of Parker . Lampard ? yeah like that has worked well in the past . Wilshire is fair enough but fuck every team has a few injuries here and there .

Anyway if the fans , players and manager are happy with what they did then fair enough , that's all that matters . I just think they can do better if they weren't so shitehouse , regardless if they only had 2 weeks to prepare (which is their own fault for sacking capello and taking so long to appoint Roy).
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I do think we played within our limitations at times, and perhaps overdid it, but we also played some good stuff on occasions, as we saw in the first half yesterday, we weren't quite so pragmatic all the time.

Like I said earlier, last night just looked like one game too many for Parker and Gerrard, and Rooney should never have figured.
 
mark1975 said:
I do think we played within our limitations at times, and perhaps overdid it, but we also played some good stuff on occasions, as we saw in the first half yesterday, we weren't quite so pragmatic all the time.

Like I said earlier, last night just looked like one game too many for Parker and Gerrard, and Rooney should never have figured.
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It seemed to me like Roy was happy to try and get an early goal, and if that didn't happen then play for pens.

Its ludicrous tactics and playing so deep left open the main player who could hurt england. And if balotelli had a better touch/finish, it wouldn't have even reached extra time
 
Roy done well with a limited team. He should be applauded for making the QF.

He made the fundamental mistake of not pressing Pirlo. If he done that, England would have won.
 
England didn't score, and after the first 10 minutes didn't look like they were TRYING to. How in the name of holy fuck tarts could man marking a player, who ultimately didn't score or get an assist, have made england win!?
 
Gary Neville had to go and boast beforehand about how the forwards were now defending from the front, which only highlighted the fact that - until Carroll came on - none of them were at all.
 
RolandG said:
Italy wouldn't have run the show. He was the catalyst of everything they done. England would have had more more opportunity to score.

Don't forget Italy didn't score either despite hitting the post.
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So you're hypothesising we would have won. Because, with rooney on the pitch and an ineffective welbeck, england were never goign to score. In fact, the whole system was wrong. England needed to flood the midfield so that pirlo would always run into bodies. Rooney should have been on the bench and carroll up top with the wingers of walcott and young playing off his flicks. a mifield 3 of gerrard, henderson and parker would have kept pirlo at bay with the energy of parker and henderson, while leaving gerrard to attack when needs must

Rooney was shite, welbeck was shite, the whole squad played too deep and the wrong players were selected.

England would not have won last night if they marked pirlo. EVERYTHING was wrong.
 
It's hardly a given, but I think Roland's point was that by stopping Pirlo, we would have stopped the wave of attacks from Italy, which ultimately might have changed the shape of the game. I don't know why people are finding that difficult to fathom. You stop the creative hotspot and you relieve the pressure. The only debate then really is whether we would have taken the initiative a bit more. The midfield was always a concern though ahead of the game, because of their diamond formation, there was always going to be a game where Gerrard and Parker got swamped, Perhaps in hindsight we should have played three in the middle.
 
It's pointless discussing whether England would have won if ... whatever.

England would have won if Ashley had scored his penalty.
You don't get much closer than that.

Thing is if they played like this against Italy, imagine how they'd have done against Germany or Spain...
 
Italy's win was down to luck in the end and they needed penalties to do it. Say what you want about the whole wrong system, it worked with a limited team. The only thing that England had going for them was sheer hardwork and Gerrard's will to win. There were better teams in Euro's that got knocked out.

Nobody advocated any ringing endorsement for any individual player. Gerrard was head and shoulders England's best player in the tournament but was poor against Italy because he had no help. Parker is nothing but average and done nothing to help him.

Hypothesis works both ways. Carroll should have started but didn't. Pirlo should have been pressed but wasn't. England could have progressed but didn't. I don't give a fuck either way. It would have been great for Gerrard to win an international tournament with his country. That would have instilled all the other Liverpool players with greater confidence coming into the new season. That's the only thing I care about.
 
Fabio said:
So you're hypothesising we would have won. Because, with rooney on the pitch and an ineffective welbeck, england were never goign to score. In fact, the whole system was wrong. England needed to flood the midfield so that pirlo would always run into bodies. Rooney should have been on the bench and carroll up top with the wingers of walcott and young playing off his flicks. a mifield 3 of gerrard, henderson and parker would have kept pirlo at bay with the energy of parker and henderson, while leaving gerrard to attack when needs must

Rooney was shite, welbeck was shite, the whole squad played too deep and the wrong players were selected.

England would not have won last night if they marked pirlo. EVERYTHING was wrong.
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Largely agree with this. England were completely dominated last night. It would have been bonkers if we had gone through. They were always the better side going into the match, but we could have made it much more competitive. It should have been 3-0, and possibly more.
 
Paddy Barclay (No. 1 supporter of Roy) said on 5 live this morning that the Finland think he is their greatest manager they have ever had.

That is England aspiration

Fabio said:
Roy was a shithouse who got his tactics wrong.

Quite how they were wrong though i'll never know, as they worked at malmo etc etc etc
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Hyena said:
It's pointless discussing whether England would have won if ... whatever.

England would have won if Ashley had scored his penalty.
You don't get much closer than that.

Thing is if they played like this against Italy, imagine how they'd have done against Germany or Spain...
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Both ashleys needed to score. Otherwise it would be sudden death. And on top of that, marchisio missed his. England had the upper hand and threw it away. Perennial bottlers on the big stage so it wouldnt surprise me if even if it did go to sudden death, someone else would have missed for england
 
mark1975 said:
It's hardly a given, but I think Roland's point was that by stopping Pirlo, we would have stopped the wave of attacks from Italy, which ultimately might have changed the shape of the game. I don't know why people are finding that difficult to fathom. You stop the creative hotspot and you relieve the pressure. The only debate then really is whether we would have taken the initiative a bit more. The midfield was always a concern though ahead of the game, because of their diamond formation, there was always going to be a game where Gerrard and Parker got swamped, Perhaps in hindsight we should have played three in the middle.
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But then taking a player out of the game to man mark pirlo might not have even done anything. Hes a master at what he does. He finds the space and he picks the pass. Even when he was supposedly being marked in the first 20 he was still picking passes for fun. isolating him would just take a player out of englands attack.

Besides, the english attack was shite anyway, so it wouldn't have changed the shape of the game that noticeably mark. If anything it would have just led to a midfield battle and retention football, which would ultimately g to pens

Roy got it totally wrong, and i'm not showing him any sympathy for it
 
The first job Hodgson was tasked with when he got the England gig seems to have been to lower expectations.
He has done a great job.
It's a pity for England that he didn't do anything else half as well.
Getting to the quarters finals should have been the minimum requirement for the current England team, not the hight of it's ambition.
I am genuinely very sorry for all the England lads on here who deserved more.
 
We should've gone for three in midfield. There was no flexibility or willingness to adapt (surprise surprise) and playing for pens 20 mins into the second half is disgraceful.

England need a complete overhaul as Germany did not too long ago and we all know that the current FA and their resident lackey, Hodgson, are not going to do this any time soon. So... I look forward to continuing failure.
 
Fabio said:
Roy was a shithouse who got his tactics wrong.

Quite how they were wrong though i'll never know, as they worked at malmo etc etc etc
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It was pure shithouse tactics throughout the tournament.

It’s like watching Stoke without the passion or team spirit.
 
keniget said:
We should've gone for three in midfield. There was no flexibility or willingness to adapt (surprise surprise) and playing for pens 20 mins into the second half is disgraceful.

England need a complete overhaul as Germany did not too long ago and we all know that the current FA and their resident lackey, Hodgson, are not going to do this any time soon. So... I look forward to continuing failure.
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We definitely need to implement a long term plan, as Spain and Germany have both done, it takes time though, unfortunately.
 
England were truly wingless wonders. Milner and Young were woeful throughout. Walcott and Oxalde-Chamberlain are the future.
 
One thing that looked fairly certain was that Gerrard would not have made it through another game in such a short space of time. Rodgers will need to really get to the bottom of what's been going on with his fitness over the past two years, and then hopefully explain it to the fans, because this has been dragging on for too long. LFC is supposed to have a state of the art sports science system in place but ever since Gerrard declared himself 'fitter than I've felt for years' he's looked as though he's had to nurse himself through most games. I know the infection was a problem, but was that cleared up or not? He looked painfully fatigued out there last night from very early on.
 
gkmacca said:
One thing that looked fairly certain was that Gerrard would not have made it through another game in such a short space of time. Rodgers will need to really get to the bottom of what's been going on with his fitness over the past two years, and then hopefully explain it to the fans, because this has been dragging on for too long. LFC is supposed to have a state of the art sports science system in place but ever since Gerrard declared himself 'fitter than I've felt for years' he's looked as though he's had to nurse himself through most games. I know the infection was a problem, but was that cleared up or not? He looked painfully fatigued out there last night from very early on.
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I think age and the amount of injuries he's had throughout his career must be a big factor. Add the heat and humidity and the intensity of the games aswell. He wasn't the only one who looked knackered last night. Considering the closing down game we adopted, it's hardly surprising we hit a brick wall.

In general though, I just think he'll always suffer niggles, he did early in his career and has had several problems throughout his playing career. His groin injury was severe enough that the groin was, according to Stevie, 97% away from the bone. That could have finished his career for good.
 
Rosco said:
Yeah, how dare Roy not correct an age old problem in six weeks.

Answer my question though - Roy is a shite manager, how did he manage to do exactly as well as other managers you rate more highly? Or have they all been shite?
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Yes, age. I wrote loads about age in my posts.

You're missing the obvious here. England have gotten to the quarter finals in recent tournaments. When you fire Capello, someone should think how can we progress and improve? How do we build our set up so that we can win the fucking thing.

Is that answer an old fart who is average beyond average? No. The pressure for an English manager and politics regarding the FA set up resulted in Hodgson. He got to the quarter finals with 2 banks of 4, no pressing and being tactically naive with no desire to win. So? Well done?

Its got nothing to with recent managers or who is shite or not, its about developing the set up and taking England forward. Hodgson is not that man.
 
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