Preview England vs USA
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Of course we freakin will, mate. Get money on it.
Oncy - excellent summary, agree with every word. I notice you refer to Lampard getting better with Barry in the team. Does that suggest you'd push Rooney right up front and play Stevie behind him? If yes, isn't that a bit hard on Heskey, who did a lot to create openings for others even if he fluffed his own chance?
Oncy - excellent summary, agree with every word. I notice you refer to Lampard getting better with Barry in the team. Does that suggest you'd push Rooney right up front and play Stevie behind him? If yes, isn't that a bit hard on Heskey, who did a lot to create openings for others even if he fluffed his own chance?
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=40574.msg1118848#msg1118848 date=1276419103]
Of course we freakin will, mate. Get money on it.
Oncy - excellent summary, agree with every word. I notice you refer to Lampard getting better with Barry in the team. Does that suggest you'd push Rooney right up front and play Stevie behind him? If yes, isn't that a bit hard on Heskey, who did a lot to create openings for others even if he fluffed his own chance?
[/quote]No Jules I'd go back to what worked qualifying. Rooney off Heskey with Gerrard starting from the left with licence to roam. I wouldn't be totally against playing Rooney with Gerrard off him but you saw from the treatment he got from Onyewu and demerit yesterday what the opposition is going to do with Rooney in this tournament, just kick him and double or even triple up on him. Without heskey he wouldn't have got a kick yesterday.
Stick with what works. 36 goals in qualifying attests to that. I can see why he played gerrard deeper yesterday, because carrick has been very poor, but I didn't agree with not playing cole in that left/free role. Still, our proper team should start vs Algeria, and if the manager is the man we all hope he is Green will be in goal.
Of course we freakin will, mate. Get money on it.
Oncy - excellent summary, agree with every word. I notice you refer to Lampard getting better with Barry in the team. Does that suggest you'd push Rooney right up front and play Stevie behind him? If yes, isn't that a bit hard on Heskey, who did a lot to create openings for others even if he fluffed his own chance?
[/quote]No Jules I'd go back to what worked qualifying. Rooney off Heskey with Gerrard starting from the left with licence to roam. I wouldn't be totally against playing Rooney with Gerrard off him but you saw from the treatment he got from Onyewu and demerit yesterday what the opposition is going to do with Rooney in this tournament, just kick him and double or even triple up on him. Without heskey he wouldn't have got a kick yesterday.
Stick with what works. 36 goals in qualifying attests to that. I can see why he played gerrard deeper yesterday, because carrick has been very poor, but I didn't agree with not playing cole in that left/free role. Still, our proper team should start vs Algeria, and if the manager is the man we all hope he is Green will be in goal.
The reason I asked was because you originally said Cole should start every game. We could achieve that AND keep Stevie in the team if we play Stevie centrally and drop Lampard (which would actually be my preference) but that doesn't take us back to the line-up which - as you rightly say - did well in qualifying. So who plays wide left in Oncio Capello's team, Cole or Stevie G?
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=40574.msg1118851#msg1118851 date=1276420357]
The reason I asked was because you originally said Cole should start every game. We could achieve that AND keep Stevie in the team if we play Stevie centrally and drop Lampard (which would actually be my preference) but that doesn't take us back to the line-up which - as you rightly say - did well in qualifying. So who plays wide left in Oncio Capello's team, Cole or Stevie G?
[/quote]Gerrard. Cole from the right. Or vice versa actually.
I just don't want Rooney isolated. Later against the better teams (should we get there) then Rooney can play up top alone because he won't get the same treatment. But here and now he needs someone to allow him some kind of space. The key to us winning for me is getting Gerrard, Rooney and Lampard to play as they do for their clubs, and the good thing is we've got systems that can do that.
I'm not in favour of dropping lampard, but ultimately I'd like us to find a way to give him some licence. He's devastating for Chelsea and if we could get half that player firing for England we'd be flying.
Maybe this
-----------Barry--------carrick-----------
gerrard---------lampard-----------cole
-----------------Rooney------------------
could be a goer.
The reason I asked was because you originally said Cole should start every game. We could achieve that AND keep Stevie in the team if we play Stevie centrally and drop Lampard (which would actually be my preference) but that doesn't take us back to the line-up which - as you rightly say - did well in qualifying. So who plays wide left in Oncio Capello's team, Cole or Stevie G?
[/quote]Gerrard. Cole from the right. Or vice versa actually.
I just don't want Rooney isolated. Later against the better teams (should we get there) then Rooney can play up top alone because he won't get the same treatment. But here and now he needs someone to allow him some kind of space. The key to us winning for me is getting Gerrard, Rooney and Lampard to play as they do for their clubs, and the good thing is we've got systems that can do that.
I'm not in favour of dropping lampard, but ultimately I'd like us to find a way to give him some licence. He's devastating for Chelsea and if we could get half that player firing for England we'd be flying.
Maybe this
-----------Barry--------carrick-----------
gerrard---------lampard-----------cole
-----------------Rooney------------------
could be a goer.
Tricky, that. It puts a measure of trust in Carrick which last season didn't suggest he deserves.
In any case I'm not sure about dropping Lennon. Having agreed with you about Green, I see Lennon's situation in a similar light - not indefinitely (in either case) but certainly for the next game at least, and take things from there.
In any case I'm not sure about dropping Lennon. Having agreed with you about Green, I see Lennon's situation in a similar light - not indefinitely (in either case) but certainly for the next game at least, and take things from there.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=40574.msg1118856#msg1118856 date=1276421571]
Tricky, that. It puts a measure of trust in Carrick which last season didn't suggest he deserves.
In any case I'm not sure about dropping Lennon. Having agreed with you about Green, I see Lennon's situation in a similar light - not indefinitely (in either case) but certainly for the next game at least, and take things from there.
[/quote]Its tricky because we need to get either Gerrard or Lampard some licence and we can't if they both stay in the middle.
Barry MUST come in, and you would have to assume that Milner/swp would be the one to miss out. My point with Cole is simply that he should have played yesterday. I've seen milner a few times now for England and he looks a bit like the fear of failure at that level may be too much for him. He looks petrified and doesn't play his natural game at all.
All being equal, milner out, Barry in with gerrard pushing on, I've not got too much of a problem with that. Later if we progress to bigger teams then heskey for cole is a realistic shout for me, as is the formation I mentioned up there^
Tricky, that. It puts a measure of trust in Carrick which last season didn't suggest he deserves.
In any case I'm not sure about dropping Lennon. Having agreed with you about Green, I see Lennon's situation in a similar light - not indefinitely (in either case) but certainly for the next game at least, and take things from there.
[/quote]Its tricky because we need to get either Gerrard or Lampard some licence and we can't if they both stay in the middle.
Barry MUST come in, and you would have to assume that Milner/swp would be the one to miss out. My point with Cole is simply that he should have played yesterday. I've seen milner a few times now for England and he looks a bit like the fear of failure at that level may be too much for him. He looks petrified and doesn't play his natural game at all.
All being equal, milner out, Barry in with gerrard pushing on, I've not got too much of a problem with that. Later if we progress to bigger teams then heskey for cole is a realistic shout for me, as is the formation I mentioned up there^
[quote author=themn link=topic=40574.msg1118859#msg1118859 date=1276423046]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40574.msg1118844#msg1118844 date=1276418491]
the worst thing was that bastard's gromless grin after the howler. fucking drop him.
[/quote]
I think that was in your mind.
[/quote]Yup. Didn't look like a grin to me. He looked mortified.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40574.msg1118844#msg1118844 date=1276418491]
the worst thing was that bastard's gromless grin after the howler. fucking drop him.
[/quote]
I think that was in your mind.
[/quote]Yup. Didn't look like a grin to me. He looked mortified.
Gerrard and Lampard was a tricky partnership when they were both at their physical peak. Now they are both getting on a bit. To have them as a CM partnership in 4-4-2 is just not feasible. They just don't have enough gas anymore. I hate to say it, but Gerrard cannot play box to box anymore. It would help to have someone who can provide the leg-work.
He played a lot deeper than Lampard for most of the game. I don't understand why people say Lampard played the defensive midfielder role in this partnership.
He played a lot deeper than Lampard for most of the game. I don't understand why people say Lampard played the defensive midfielder role in this partnership.
Neither Gerrard or Lampard do the simple part of the game and make themselves available for the ball when the defenders have it, hence all the route one stuff England were forced to play.
For all the lauding of Capello in recent times, take a look at that lineup last night - all the same problems exist. No real left sided player, unbalanced midfield and dodgy defence. McLaren would have been pilloried for picking a team like it.
For all the lauding of Capello in recent times, take a look at that lineup last night - all the same problems exist. No real left sided player, unbalanced midfield and dodgy defence. McLaren would have been pilloried for picking a team like it.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40574.msg1118832#msg1118832 date=1276416828]
what would be braver?
keeping green in the team or not keeping green in the team?
[/quote]
Who cares about bravery?
There's only one sensible decision to make, and that's dropping him.
what would be braver?
keeping green in the team or not keeping green in the team?
[/quote]
Who cares about bravery?
There's only one sensible decision to make, and that's dropping him.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=40574.msg1118863#msg1118863 date=1276423753]
Neither Gerrard or Lampard do the simple part of the game and make themselves available for the ball when the defenders have it, hence all the route one stuff England were forced to play.
For all the lauding of Capello in recent times, take a look at that lineup last night - all the same problems exist. No real left sided player, unbalanced midfield and dodgy defence. McLaren would have been pilloried for picking a team like it.
[/quote]
totally agree, ros. capello seems no different from the other managers but isn't being taken to the cleaners (by the press) because he is an excellent manager (at club level).
heskey is in the team? why? so rooney can fill his boots? well, how is that working out for 'wazza'?
still no patience to just hold the ball, pass, pass, HOOF!
SWP on the left rather than joe cole? what?
england will get out of the group but go out to the first good team they play, again.
Neither Gerrard or Lampard do the simple part of the game and make themselves available for the ball when the defenders have it, hence all the route one stuff England were forced to play.
For all the lauding of Capello in recent times, take a look at that lineup last night - all the same problems exist. No real left sided player, unbalanced midfield and dodgy defence. McLaren would have been pilloried for picking a team like it.
[/quote]
totally agree, ros. capello seems no different from the other managers but isn't being taken to the cleaners (by the press) because he is an excellent manager (at club level).
heskey is in the team? why? so rooney can fill his boots? well, how is that working out for 'wazza'?
still no patience to just hold the ball, pass, pass, HOOF!
SWP on the left rather than joe cole? what?
england will get out of the group but go out to the first good team they play, again.
Oncy, I'm baffled by your comments about the wingers. I thought you always said you liked two *proper*, touchline-hugging wingers? Now you want to drop both Lennon and SWP - neither of whom was brilliant but both of whom caused obvious problems for the US defence and created chances - in favour of Gerrard and Joe Cole, who are better players but don't stay wide. Personally, I think that would be a decent decision, particularly with Magic and Ashley able to overlap them, but surely it goes against your whole football manifesto?
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40574.msg1118861#msg1118861 date=1276423166]
[quote author=themn link=topic=40574.msg1118859#msg1118859 date=1276423046]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40574.msg1118844#msg1118844 date=1276418491]
the worst thing was that bastard's gromless grin after the howler. fucking drop him.
[/quote]
I think that was in your mind.
[/quote]Yup. Didn't look like a grin to me. He looked mortified.
[/quote]
I thought he was going to cry.
[quote author=themn link=topic=40574.msg1118859#msg1118859 date=1276423046]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40574.msg1118844#msg1118844 date=1276418491]
the worst thing was that bastard's gromless grin after the howler. fucking drop him.
[/quote]
I think that was in your mind.
[/quote]Yup. Didn't look like a grin to me. He looked mortified.
[/quote]
I thought he was going to cry.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40574.msg1118845#msg1118845 date=1276418838]
There's quite a bit of reactionary shite being written now as you would expect, but the fact is we created 4 or 5 good chances after we scored and we had all the posession. USA created one chance all game that green saved, aside from that they just hit shots from range and got REAL lucky with one of them.
Rooney had 3 players round him everytime he got the ball and still put one on a plate for wright Phillips. Lennon did some good work but didn't deliver enough quality.
Lampard dissapointed but he's not a holding midfielder, and with Barry in there for the next game he should get a lot better.
And Green, well non of our keepers are flawless, and you wouldn't have been suprised had that been James making a mistake, so to suggest it was a bad decision after the mistake is just reactionary and nonsense.
We should have scored a couple more in spite of that, and a bit of composure from Heskey, Phillips and Lennon and the USA are on the end of a hiding. I'm glad that didn't happen to be fair because the weight of expectation would be ridiculous. USA beat Spain and hammered brazil for an hour last year, I think we got just about what we expected/deserved. Were a second tier team after Brazil, Spain and maybe Argentina and we started against our toughest group opposition.
The important thing is not to overreact. I don't think Fabio will, I hope not anyway. I do think Joe Cole should start though, he offers more threat than any other wide player.
The rest was ok.
[/quote]
What's wrong with Hart?! Everytime time I mention Hart to someone the only negative thing they can say is...'he's too young...he's a rookie'...But he's in the form of his life with Birmingham and this was recognised by his inclusion in the PFA Team of the Year and has also carried an England team to the 2009 Euro U21 final but was unfortunately suspended for the final and England were then beat by the Germans. While Green was almost relegated and James was.
And why the hell Capello didn't bring Adam Johnson but decided to bring 5 centre-backs is beyond belief.
There's quite a bit of reactionary shite being written now as you would expect, but the fact is we created 4 or 5 good chances after we scored and we had all the posession. USA created one chance all game that green saved, aside from that they just hit shots from range and got REAL lucky with one of them.
Rooney had 3 players round him everytime he got the ball and still put one on a plate for wright Phillips. Lennon did some good work but didn't deliver enough quality.
Lampard dissapointed but he's not a holding midfielder, and with Barry in there for the next game he should get a lot better.
And Green, well non of our keepers are flawless, and you wouldn't have been suprised had that been James making a mistake, so to suggest it was a bad decision after the mistake is just reactionary and nonsense.
We should have scored a couple more in spite of that, and a bit of composure from Heskey, Phillips and Lennon and the USA are on the end of a hiding. I'm glad that didn't happen to be fair because the weight of expectation would be ridiculous. USA beat Spain and hammered brazil for an hour last year, I think we got just about what we expected/deserved. Were a second tier team after Brazil, Spain and maybe Argentina and we started against our toughest group opposition.
The important thing is not to overreact. I don't think Fabio will, I hope not anyway. I do think Joe Cole should start though, he offers more threat than any other wide player.
The rest was ok.
[/quote]
What's wrong with Hart?! Everytime time I mention Hart to someone the only negative thing they can say is...'he's too young...he's a rookie'...But he's in the form of his life with Birmingham and this was recognised by his inclusion in the PFA Team of the Year and has also carried an England team to the 2009 Euro U21 final but was unfortunately suspended for the final and England were then beat by the Germans. While Green was almost relegated and James was.
And why the hell Capello didn't bring Adam Johnson but decided to bring 5 centre-backs is beyond belief.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40574.msg1118872#msg1118872 date=1276425122]
Oncy, I'm baffled by your comments about the wingers. I thought you always said you liked two *proper*, touchline-hugging wingers? Now you want to drop both Lennon and SWP - neither of whom was brilliant but both of whom caused obvious problems for the US defence and created chances - in favour of Gerrard and Joe Cole, who are better players but don't stay wide. Personally, I think that would be a decent decision, particularly with Magic and Ashley able to overlap them, but surely it goes against your whole football manifesto?
[/quote]Well ideally I'd sign some better wingers buuuuuuut.
I don't mind Lennon playing at all, he did some good things yesterday, but I'm in favour of what is successful. We scored a tonne of goals in qualifying with Gerrard on the left, I don't see the point in changing that now.
If we had better wingers I'd want them to play of course.
Oncy, I'm baffled by your comments about the wingers. I thought you always said you liked two *proper*, touchline-hugging wingers? Now you want to drop both Lennon and SWP - neither of whom was brilliant but both of whom caused obvious problems for the US defence and created chances - in favour of Gerrard and Joe Cole, who are better players but don't stay wide. Personally, I think that would be a decent decision, particularly with Magic and Ashley able to overlap them, but surely it goes against your whole football manifesto?
[/quote]Well ideally I'd sign some better wingers buuuuuuut.
I don't mind Lennon playing at all, he did some good things yesterday, but I'm in favour of what is successful. We scored a tonne of goals in qualifying with Gerrard on the left, I don't see the point in changing that now.
If we had better wingers I'd want them to play of course.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=40574.msg1118863#msg1118863 date=1276423753]
Neither Gerrard or Lampard do the simple part of the game and make themselves available for the ball when the defenders have it, hence all the route one stuff England were forced to play.
For all the lauding of Capello in recent times, take a look at that lineup last night - all the same problems exist. No real left sided player, unbalanced midfield and dodgy defence. McLaren would have been pilloried for picking a team like it.
[/quote]
Which is why I said capello is probably regretting not taking Adam Johnson ... He could have been the player to provide much needed balance to England's attack.
Neither Gerrard or Lampard do the simple part of the game and make themselves available for the ball when the defenders have it, hence all the route one stuff England were forced to play.
For all the lauding of Capello in recent times, take a look at that lineup last night - all the same problems exist. No real left sided player, unbalanced midfield and dodgy defence. McLaren would have been pilloried for picking a team like it.
[/quote]
Which is why I said capello is probably regretting not taking Adam Johnson ... He could have been the player to provide much needed balance to England's attack.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40574.msg1118869#msg1118869 date=1276424626]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=40574.msg1118863#msg1118863 date=1276423753]
Neither Gerrard or Lampard do the simple part of the game and make themselves available for the ball when the defenders have it, hence all the route one stuff England were forced to play.
For all the lauding of Capello in recent times, take a look at that lineup last night - all the same problems exist. No real left sided player, unbalanced midfield and dodgy defence. McLaren would have been pilloried for picking a team like it.
[/quote]
totally agree, ros. capello seems no different from the other managers but isn't being taken to the cleaners (by the press) because he is an excellent manager (at club level).
heskey is in the team? why? so rooney can fill his boots? well, how is that working out for 'wazza'?
still no patience to just hold the ball, pass, pass, HOOF!
SWP on the left rather than joe cole? what?
england will get out of the group but go out to the first good team they play, again.
[/quote]Go and have a look how many goals Rooney has scored for England with and without Heskey in the team.
So he doesn't score for one game (where incidentally Heskey provided the assist for the one goal we did score) and it's not working out! Like I said reactionary bollocks.
And totally unsuprising.
And for the record Capello is being flayed in the press, for a)picking green, b)picking milner c)picking king in the squad d)not informing the keepers who is number 1 e)not playing Rooney up front f)playing gerrard and lampard together etc etc and other such usual gripes that arise when we don't win 6-0
so yeah, reactionary and wrong. Well done.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=40574.msg1118863#msg1118863 date=1276423753]
Neither Gerrard or Lampard do the simple part of the game and make themselves available for the ball when the defenders have it, hence all the route one stuff England were forced to play.
For all the lauding of Capello in recent times, take a look at that lineup last night - all the same problems exist. No real left sided player, unbalanced midfield and dodgy defence. McLaren would have been pilloried for picking a team like it.
[/quote]
totally agree, ros. capello seems no different from the other managers but isn't being taken to the cleaners (by the press) because he is an excellent manager (at club level).
heskey is in the team? why? so rooney can fill his boots? well, how is that working out for 'wazza'?
still no patience to just hold the ball, pass, pass, HOOF!
SWP on the left rather than joe cole? what?
england will get out of the group but go out to the first good team they play, again.
[/quote]Go and have a look how many goals Rooney has scored for England with and without Heskey in the team.
So he doesn't score for one game (where incidentally Heskey provided the assist for the one goal we did score) and it's not working out! Like I said reactionary bollocks.
And totally unsuprising.
And for the record Capello is being flayed in the press, for a)picking green, b)picking milner c)picking king in the squad d)not informing the keepers who is number 1 e)not playing Rooney up front f)playing gerrard and lampard together etc etc and other such usual gripes that arise when we don't win 6-0
so yeah, reactionary and wrong. Well done.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40574.msg1118879#msg1118879 date=1276425894]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40574.msg1118872#msg1118872 date=1276425122]
Oncy, I'm baffled by your comments about the wingers. I thought you always said you liked two *proper*, touchline-hugging wingers? Now you want to drop both Lennon and SWP - neither of whom was brilliant but both of whom caused obvious problems for the US defence and created chances - in favour of Gerrard and Joe Cole, who are better players but don't stay wide. Personally, I think that would be a decent decision, particularly with Magic and Ashley able to overlap them, but surely it goes against your whole football manifesto?
[/quote]Well ideally I'd sign some better wingers buuuuuuut.
I don't mind Lennon playing at all, he did some good things yesterday, but I'm in favour of what is successful. We scored a tonne of goals in qualifying with Gerrard on the left, I don't see the point in changing that now.
If we had better wingers I'd want them to play of course.
[/quote]
I think Gerrard worked on the left when Barry played. Gerrard would cut inside, Cole would overlap and Barry would cover defensively, and it worked. I think without Barry or a real defensive midfielder it's a bit of a no go.
The lineup was ok, but I don't see the reason why he played Milner or SWP wide left. Lennon did ok, but we need some balance on the opposite flank.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40574.msg1118872#msg1118872 date=1276425122]
Oncy, I'm baffled by your comments about the wingers. I thought you always said you liked two *proper*, touchline-hugging wingers? Now you want to drop both Lennon and SWP - neither of whom was brilliant but both of whom caused obvious problems for the US defence and created chances - in favour of Gerrard and Joe Cole, who are better players but don't stay wide. Personally, I think that would be a decent decision, particularly with Magic and Ashley able to overlap them, but surely it goes against your whole football manifesto?
[/quote]Well ideally I'd sign some better wingers buuuuuuut.
I don't mind Lennon playing at all, he did some good things yesterday, but I'm in favour of what is successful. We scored a tonne of goals in qualifying with Gerrard on the left, I don't see the point in changing that now.
If we had better wingers I'd want them to play of course.
[/quote]
I think Gerrard worked on the left when Barry played. Gerrard would cut inside, Cole would overlap and Barry would cover defensively, and it worked. I think without Barry or a real defensive midfielder it's a bit of a no go.
The lineup was ok, but I don't see the reason why he played Milner or SWP wide left. Lennon did ok, but we need some balance on the opposite flank.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=40574.msg1118883#msg1118883 date=1276426302]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40574.msg1118879#msg1118879 date=1276425894]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40574.msg1118872#msg1118872 date=1276425122]
Oncy, I'm baffled by your comments about the wingers. I thought you always said you liked two *proper*, touchline-hugging wingers? Now you want to drop both Lennon and SWP - neither of whom was brilliant but both of whom caused obvious problems for the US defence and created chances - in favour of Gerrard and Joe Cole, who are better players but don't stay wide. Personally, I think that would be a decent decision, particularly with Magic and Ashley able to overlap them, but surely it goes against your whole football manifesto?
[/quote]Well ideally I'd sign some better wingers buuuuuuut.
I don't mind Lennon playing at all, he did some good things yesterday, but I'm in favour of what is successful. We scored a tonne of goals in qualifying with Gerrard on the left, I don't see the point in changing that now.
If we had better wingers I'd want them to play of course.
[/quote]
I think Gerrard worked on the left when Barry played. Gerrard would cut inside, Cole would overlap and Barry would cover defensively, and it worked. I think without Barry or a real defensive midfielder it's a bit of a no go.
The lineup was ok, but I don't see the reason why he played Milner or SWP wide left. Lennon did ok, but we need some balance on the opposite flank.
[/quote]Which is exactly what I've been saying.
With Barry fit Gerrard should take the left spot. If Barry isn't fit Cole should play there.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40574.msg1118879#msg1118879 date=1276425894]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40574.msg1118872#msg1118872 date=1276425122]
Oncy, I'm baffled by your comments about the wingers. I thought you always said you liked two *proper*, touchline-hugging wingers? Now you want to drop both Lennon and SWP - neither of whom was brilliant but both of whom caused obvious problems for the US defence and created chances - in favour of Gerrard and Joe Cole, who are better players but don't stay wide. Personally, I think that would be a decent decision, particularly with Magic and Ashley able to overlap them, but surely it goes against your whole football manifesto?
[/quote]Well ideally I'd sign some better wingers buuuuuuut.
I don't mind Lennon playing at all, he did some good things yesterday, but I'm in favour of what is successful. We scored a tonne of goals in qualifying with Gerrard on the left, I don't see the point in changing that now.
If we had better wingers I'd want them to play of course.
[/quote]
I think Gerrard worked on the left when Barry played. Gerrard would cut inside, Cole would overlap and Barry would cover defensively, and it worked. I think without Barry or a real defensive midfielder it's a bit of a no go.
The lineup was ok, but I don't see the reason why he played Milner or SWP wide left. Lennon did ok, but we need some balance on the opposite flank.
[/quote]Which is exactly what I've been saying.
With Barry fit Gerrard should take the left spot. If Barry isn't fit Cole should play there.
[quote author=irishred link=topic=40574.msg1118877#msg1118877 date=1276425824]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40574.msg1118845#msg1118845 date=1276418838]
There's quite a bit of reactionary shite being written now as you would expect, but the fact is we created 4 or 5 good chances after we scored and we had all the posession. USA created one chance all game that green saved, aside from that they just hit shots from range and got REAL lucky with one of them.
Rooney had 3 players round him everytime he got the ball and still put one on a plate for wright Phillips. Lennon did some good work but didn't deliver enough quality.
Lampard dissapointed but he's not a holding midfielder, and with Barry in there for the next game he should get a lot better.
And Green, well non of our keepers are flawless, and you wouldn't have been suprised had that been James making a mistake, so to suggest it was a bad decision after the mistake is just reactionary and nonsense.
We should have scored a couple more in spite of that, and a bit of composure from Heskey, Phillips and Lennon and the USA are on the end of a hiding. I'm glad that didn't happen to be fair because the weight of expectation would be ridiculous. USA beat Spain and hammered brazil for an hour last year, I think we got just about what we expected/deserved. Were a second tier team after Brazil, Spain and maybe Argentina and we started against our toughest group opposition.
The important thing is not to overreact. I don't think Fabio will, I hope not anyway. I do think Joe Cole should start though, he offers more threat than any other wide player.
The rest was ok.
[/quote]
What's wrong with Hart?! Everytime time I mention Hart to someone the only negative thing they can say is...'he's too young...he's a rookie'...But he's in the form of his life with Birmingham and this was recognised by his inclusion in the PFA Team of the Year and has also carried an England team to the 2009 Euro U21 final but was unfortunately suspended for the final and England were then beat by the Germans. While Green was almost relegated and James was.
And why the hell Capello didn't bring Adam Johnson but decided to bring 5 centre-backs is beyond belief.
[/quote]
The fact he made the PFA team says it all for me, he's class & should have been playing yesterday.
Blaming the defeat on Green is lazy though, the team didnt perform well enough.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40574.msg1118845#msg1118845 date=1276418838]
There's quite a bit of reactionary shite being written now as you would expect, but the fact is we created 4 or 5 good chances after we scored and we had all the posession. USA created one chance all game that green saved, aside from that they just hit shots from range and got REAL lucky with one of them.
Rooney had 3 players round him everytime he got the ball and still put one on a plate for wright Phillips. Lennon did some good work but didn't deliver enough quality.
Lampard dissapointed but he's not a holding midfielder, and with Barry in there for the next game he should get a lot better.
And Green, well non of our keepers are flawless, and you wouldn't have been suprised had that been James making a mistake, so to suggest it was a bad decision after the mistake is just reactionary and nonsense.
We should have scored a couple more in spite of that, and a bit of composure from Heskey, Phillips and Lennon and the USA are on the end of a hiding. I'm glad that didn't happen to be fair because the weight of expectation would be ridiculous. USA beat Spain and hammered brazil for an hour last year, I think we got just about what we expected/deserved. Were a second tier team after Brazil, Spain and maybe Argentina and we started against our toughest group opposition.
The important thing is not to overreact. I don't think Fabio will, I hope not anyway. I do think Joe Cole should start though, he offers more threat than any other wide player.
The rest was ok.
[/quote]
What's wrong with Hart?! Everytime time I mention Hart to someone the only negative thing they can say is...'he's too young...he's a rookie'...But he's in the form of his life with Birmingham and this was recognised by his inclusion in the PFA Team of the Year and has also carried an England team to the 2009 Euro U21 final but was unfortunately suspended for the final and England were then beat by the Germans. While Green was almost relegated and James was.
And why the hell Capello didn't bring Adam Johnson but decided to bring 5 centre-backs is beyond belief.
[/quote]
The fact he made the PFA team says it all for me, he's class & should have been playing yesterday.
Blaming the defeat on Green is lazy though, the team didnt perform well enough.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=40574.msg1118888#msg1118888 date=1276426865]
the defeat Jon ?
[/quote]
hahaha, it felt like it! I am hungover. Extremely hungover.
The draw, obv.
the defeat Jon ?
[/quote]
hahaha, it felt like it! I am hungover. Extremely hungover.
The draw, obv.
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=40574.msg1118887#msg1118887 date=1276426797]
[quote author=irishred link=topic=40574.msg1118877#msg1118877 date=1276425824]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40574.msg1118845#msg1118845 date=1276418838]
There's quite a bit of reactionary shite being written now as you would expect, but the fact is we created 4 or 5 good chances after we scored and we had all the posession. USA created one chance all game that green saved, aside from that they just hit shots from range and got REAL lucky with one of them.
Rooney had 3 players round him everytime he got the ball and still put one on a plate for wright Phillips. Lennon did some good work but didn't deliver enough quality.
Lampard dissapointed but he's not a holding midfielder, and with Barry in there for the next game he should get a lot better.
And Green, well non of our keepers are flawless, and you wouldn't have been suprised had that been James making a mistake, so to suggest it was a bad decision after the mistake is just reactionary and nonsense.
We should have scored a couple more in spite of that, and a bit of composure from Heskey, Phillips and Lennon and the USA are on the end of a hiding. I'm glad that didn't happen to be fair because the weight of expectation would be ridiculous. USA beat Spain and hammered brazil for an hour last year, I think we got just about what we expected/deserved. Were a second tier team after Brazil, Spain and maybe Argentina and we started against our toughest group opposition.
The important thing is not to overreact. I don't think Fabio will, I hope not anyway. I do think Joe Cole should start though, he offers more threat than any other wide player.
The rest was ok.
[/quote]
What's wrong with Hart?! Everytime time I mention Hart to someone the only negative thing they can say is...'he's too young...he's a rookie'...But he's in the form of his life with Birmingham and this was recognised by his inclusion in the PFA Team of the Year and has also carried an England team to the 2009 Euro U21 final but was unfortunately suspended for the final and England were then beat by the Germans. While Green was almost relegated and James was.
And why the hell Capello didn't bring Adam Johnson but decided to bring 5 centre-backs is beyond belief.
[/quote]
The fact he made the PFA team says it all for me, he's class & should have been playing yesterday.
Blaming the defeat on Green is lazy though, the team didnt perform well enough.
[/quote]Hart would have been my first choice too. But then it hardly matters. Every keeper makes mistakes. It doesn't make them a bad keeper.
I suspect James will come in against Algeria but I hope not.
[quote author=irishred link=topic=40574.msg1118877#msg1118877 date=1276425824]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40574.msg1118845#msg1118845 date=1276418838]
There's quite a bit of reactionary shite being written now as you would expect, but the fact is we created 4 or 5 good chances after we scored and we had all the posession. USA created one chance all game that green saved, aside from that they just hit shots from range and got REAL lucky with one of them.
Rooney had 3 players round him everytime he got the ball and still put one on a plate for wright Phillips. Lennon did some good work but didn't deliver enough quality.
Lampard dissapointed but he's not a holding midfielder, and with Barry in there for the next game he should get a lot better.
And Green, well non of our keepers are flawless, and you wouldn't have been suprised had that been James making a mistake, so to suggest it was a bad decision after the mistake is just reactionary and nonsense.
We should have scored a couple more in spite of that, and a bit of composure from Heskey, Phillips and Lennon and the USA are on the end of a hiding. I'm glad that didn't happen to be fair because the weight of expectation would be ridiculous. USA beat Spain and hammered brazil for an hour last year, I think we got just about what we expected/deserved. Were a second tier team after Brazil, Spain and maybe Argentina and we started against our toughest group opposition.
The important thing is not to overreact. I don't think Fabio will, I hope not anyway. I do think Joe Cole should start though, he offers more threat than any other wide player.
The rest was ok.
[/quote]
What's wrong with Hart?! Everytime time I mention Hart to someone the only negative thing they can say is...'he's too young...he's a rookie'...But he's in the form of his life with Birmingham and this was recognised by his inclusion in the PFA Team of the Year and has also carried an England team to the 2009 Euro U21 final but was unfortunately suspended for the final and England were then beat by the Germans. While Green was almost relegated and James was.
And why the hell Capello didn't bring Adam Johnson but decided to bring 5 centre-backs is beyond belief.
[/quote]
The fact he made the PFA team says it all for me, he's class & should have been playing yesterday.
Blaming the defeat on Green is lazy though, the team didnt perform well enough.
[/quote]Hart would have been my first choice too. But then it hardly matters. Every keeper makes mistakes. It doesn't make them a bad keeper.
I suspect James will come in against Algeria but I hope not.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=40574.msg1118892#msg1118892 date=1276427152]
Is James fit? I'd have had Hart in there. I agree re Capello though, you can't keep players guessing like that, why did Hart play in the friendly before it all kicked off?
[/quote]Capellos argument according to Trevor Brooking is that he wants every player to be prepared to play and match ready. He doesn't want half the squad knowing they aren't deemed good enough.
I don't really agree with it, but it's unfair to tear it apart based on one mistake by a top premiership keeper.
Is James fit? I'd have had Hart in there. I agree re Capello though, you can't keep players guessing like that, why did Hart play in the friendly before it all kicked off?
[/quote]Capellos argument according to Trevor Brooking is that he wants every player to be prepared to play and match ready. He doesn't want half the squad knowing they aren't deemed good enough.
I don't really agree with it, but it's unfair to tear it apart based on one mistake by a top premiership keeper.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40574.msg1118756#msg1118756 date=1276370853]
Get James on, Capello.
Fuck Green off.
Show no sympathy at all.
[/quote]
I couldn't believe the amount of posters who suggested Green was the best option for No.1, I have always argued that he's a clown who should not be anywhere near the squad.
1. Hart
2. James
3.Robinson
Get James on, Capello.
Fuck Green off.
Show no sympathy at all.
[/quote]
I couldn't believe the amount of posters who suggested Green was the best option for No.1, I have always argued that he's a clown who should not be anywhere near the squad.
1. Hart
2. James
3.Robinson
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=Dancing Brave link=topic=40574.msg1118923#msg1118923 date=1276438223]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40574.msg1118756#msg1118756 date=1276370853]
Get James on, Capello.
Fuck Green off.
Show no sympathy at all.
[/quote]
I couldn't believe the amount of posters who suggested Green was the best option for No.1, I have always argued that he's a clown who should not be anywhere near the squad.
1. Hart
2. James
3.Robinson
[/quote]
I could see the logic in selecting him, and maybe even starting him.
But there's no logic left for his continued presence in the side. You only get one chance in a WC and he's blown it, IMO.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40574.msg1118756#msg1118756 date=1276370853]
Get James on, Capello.
Fuck Green off.
Show no sympathy at all.
[/quote]
I couldn't believe the amount of posters who suggested Green was the best option for No.1, I have always argued that he's a clown who should not be anywhere near the squad.
1. Hart
2. James
3.Robinson
[/quote]
I could see the logic in selecting him, and maybe even starting him.
But there's no logic left for his continued presence in the side. You only get one chance in a WC and he's blown it, IMO.
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