Is Kenny doing a good job?
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What do you think of Adam and Enrique?
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47881.msg1441954#msg1441954 date=1323647323]
I just cannot get over the 35m on Carroll. Unfortunately it's clouding my judgement.
It's one of the worst pieces of transfer business ive ever seen.
[/quote]
It's a good point raised by Peter as to who's signing it actually was. I think Carroll actually clouded the King's judgement as well.
The fact that we moved away from the passing game we played so successfully 2nd half of last season to accomodate Carroll makes me think Kenny signed him. That said, his form for Newcastle was so much better than what we're seeing here.
Either way I think Kenny has seen the error - our last handful of games have been vastly improved; we just need a goal scorer and the results will disolve the questions - despite the money spent on Carroll.
I just cannot get over the 35m on Carroll. Unfortunately it's clouding my judgement.
It's one of the worst pieces of transfer business ive ever seen.
[/quote]
It's a good point raised by Peter as to who's signing it actually was. I think Carroll actually clouded the King's judgement as well.
The fact that we moved away from the passing game we played so successfully 2nd half of last season to accomodate Carroll makes me think Kenny signed him. That said, his form for Newcastle was so much better than what we're seeing here.
Either way I think Kenny has seen the error - our last handful of games have been vastly improved; we just need a goal scorer and the results will disolve the questions - despite the money spent on Carroll.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47881.msg1441954#msg1441954 date=1323647323]
I just cannot get over the 35m on Carroll. Unfortunately it's clouding my judgement.
It's one of the worst pieces of transfer business ive ever seen.
[/quote]
Yeah, I know what you mean.
He's still the best man for the job, though. It'd be another season before his job would come into question, and by that stage, I think he'll have proven he's the right man for the job.
I just cannot get over the 35m on Carroll. Unfortunately it's clouding my judgement.
It's one of the worst pieces of transfer business ive ever seen.
[/quote]
Yeah, I know what you mean.
He's still the best man for the job, though. It'd be another season before his job would come into question, and by that stage, I think he'll have proven he's the right man for the job.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47881.msg1441966#msg1441966 date=1323648285]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47881.msg1441958#msg1441958 date=1323648009]
What do you think of Adam and Enrique?
[/quote]
They're doing well.
[/quote]
Oooohh - a straight bat.
Not really your forte, O'Hare.
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47881.msg1441958#msg1441958 date=1323648009]
What do you think of Adam and Enrique?
[/quote]
They're doing well.
[/quote]
Oooohh - a straight bat.
Not really your forte, O'Hare.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47881.msg1441954#msg1441954 date=1323647323]
I just cannot get over the 35m on Carroll. Unfortunately it's clouding my judgement.
It's one of the worst pieces of transfer business ive ever seen.
[/quote]
Thats the problem isn't it ? - its difficult to get over something like that in your head. Everytime he plays I just think about the money spent - or rather wasted so quickly. I guess its what happens when the club thinks there will be riots in Liverpool with the departure of Torres so just to please the mob they go out and spend 35M on an unproven individual who looked good in a few performances. We will never get that money back or even close to it. At best he is worth £5M right now.
I just cannot get over the 35m on Carroll. Unfortunately it's clouding my judgement.
It's one of the worst pieces of transfer business ive ever seen.
[/quote]
Thats the problem isn't it ? - its difficult to get over something like that in your head. Everytime he plays I just think about the money spent - or rather wasted so quickly. I guess its what happens when the club thinks there will be riots in Liverpool with the departure of Torres so just to please the mob they go out and spend 35M on an unproven individual who looked good in a few performances. We will never get that money back or even close to it. At best he is worth £5M right now.
There's not a lot more to say really. Enrique's been better than I thought he'd be, which I've admitted before. Adam's got a lot better over the last month too. I'm not entirely convinced by him but there you go.
We needed and still need world class players in attack. I've talked long and hard about this many times so I'm not about to do it again. Saturdays game jus reemphasized it to me really; we're so so short of quality in attack. And the team we could be had that mega-purchase of Carroll gone on someone better, more suitable, just kills me really.
I'm still in favor of Dalglish, no doubt. But he's made mistakes, no doubt.
We needed and still need world class players in attack. I've talked long and hard about this many times so I'm not about to do it again. Saturdays game jus reemphasized it to me really; we're so so short of quality in attack. And the team we could be had that mega-purchase of Carroll gone on someone better, more suitable, just kills me really.
I'm still in favor of Dalglish, no doubt. But he's made mistakes, no doubt.
The money spent on him is only a problem if we can't afford it.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=47881.msg1441975#msg1441975 date=1323649016]
The money spent on him is only a problem if we can't afford it.
[/quote]
Well it's also a problem if we prove not to be good enough on the pitch as that money could've been put to better use.
The money spent on him is only a problem if we can't afford it.
[/quote]
Well it's also a problem if we prove not to be good enough on the pitch as that money could've been put to better use.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=47881.msg1441975#msg1441975 date=1323649016]
The money spent on him is only a problem if we can't afford it.
[/quote]
Yes and no. I think it's a problem regardless because it's costing us a lot of points had the cash been invested in someone who suited our style better & converted more. However if we have yet more cash to spend on players it's less of a long term problem.
The money spent on him is only a problem if we can't afford it.
[/quote]
Yes and no. I think it's a problem regardless because it's costing us a lot of points had the cash been invested in someone who suited our style better & converted more. However if we have yet more cash to spend on players it's less of a long term problem.
You're always taking a risk when buying players. We could have paid 50 million big ones for Torres. Or bought a Shevchenko.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47881.msg1441974#msg1441974 date=1323648980]
There's not a lot more to say really. Enrique's been better than I thought he'd be, which I've admitted before. Adam's got a lot better over the last month too. I'm not entirely convinced by him but there you go.
We needed and still need world class players in attack. I've talked long and hard about this many times so I'm not about to do it again. Saturdays game jus reemphasized it to me really; we're so so short of quality in attack. And the team we could be had that mega-purchase of Carroll gone on someone better, more suitable, just kills me really.
I'm still in favor of Dalglish, no doubt. But he's made mistakes, no doubt.
[/quote]
You actually called Enrique a "chump". So Im glad he's better than you thought he would be.
There's not a lot more to say really. Enrique's been better than I thought he'd be, which I've admitted before. Adam's got a lot better over the last month too. I'm not entirely convinced by him but there you go.
We needed and still need world class players in attack. I've talked long and hard about this many times so I'm not about to do it again. Saturdays game jus reemphasized it to me really; we're so so short of quality in attack. And the team we could be had that mega-purchase of Carroll gone on someone better, more suitable, just kills me really.
I'm still in favor of Dalglish, no doubt. But he's made mistakes, no doubt.
[/quote]
You actually called Enrique a "chump". So Im glad he's better than you thought he would be.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=47881.msg1441985#msg1441985 date=1323649586]
You're always taking a risk when buying players. We could have paid 50 million big ones for Torres. Or bought a Shevchenko.
[/quote]
I wish I had your laid-back attitude about it us buying bad players for serous amounts of money Sheik.
You're always taking a risk when buying players. We could have paid 50 million big ones for Torres. Or bought a Shevchenko.
[/quote]
I wish I had your laid-back attitude about it us buying bad players for serous amounts of money Sheik.
The flip side is you pick up gems like Enrique who shouldn't be good because he played for a shit team and Barcelona didn't want him.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=47881.msg1441992#msg1441992 date=1323650104]
The flip side is you pick up gems like Enrique who shouldn't be good because he played for a shit team and Barcelona didn't want him.
[/quote]
Well here's hoping Enrique scores the 20-30 goals a season that Carroll won't then eh.
The flip side is you pick up gems like Enrique who shouldn't be good because he played for a shit team and Barcelona didn't want him.
[/quote]
Well here's hoping Enrique scores the 20-30 goals a season that Carroll won't then eh.
He's doing a fantastic job. We've played lovely football for the most part since he's arrived and Carroll and Downing apart everything has gone pretty well.
I still think in time both will be fine signings. If Carroll goes onto to fulfill the promise he showed last year nobody will care about the 35m.
I still think in time both will be fine signings. If Carroll goes onto to fulfill the promise he showed last year nobody will care about the 35m.
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47881.msg1442016#msg1442016 date=1323657100]
He's doing a fantastic job. We've played lovely football for the most part since he's arrived and Carroll and Downing apart everything has gone pretty well.
I still think in time both will be fine signings. If Carroll goes onto to fulfill the promise he showed last year nobody will care about the 35m.
[/quote]
The issue with that DB is that we didn't buy Carroll last January to be good in a couple of years. He needs to be good now and perform now or the team suffers.
It's not hard to see it being a Kenny signing - not like he hasn't had past experience in a very good big man/small man partnership up front. I could imagine him thinking when Suarez was coming in that he had a match made in heaven. The issue is that Suarez plays more closely to the big man role; he holds it up beautifull and sets up so many chances it's remarkable. What he's missing is the "small" guy sticking them in the back of the net.
He's doing a fantastic job. We've played lovely football for the most part since he's arrived and Carroll and Downing apart everything has gone pretty well.
I still think in time both will be fine signings. If Carroll goes onto to fulfill the promise he showed last year nobody will care about the 35m.
[/quote]
The issue with that DB is that we didn't buy Carroll last January to be good in a couple of years. He needs to be good now and perform now or the team suffers.
It's not hard to see it being a Kenny signing - not like he hasn't had past experience in a very good big man/small man partnership up front. I could imagine him thinking when Suarez was coming in that he had a match made in heaven. The issue is that Suarez plays more closely to the big man role; he holds it up beautifull and sets up so many chances it's remarkable. What he's missing is the "small" guy sticking them in the back of the net.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47881.msg1442018#msg1442018 date=1323657888]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47881.msg1442016#msg1442016 date=1323657100]
He's doing a fantastic job. We've played lovely football for the most part since he's arrived and Carroll and Downing apart everything has gone pretty well.
I still think in time both will be fine signings. If Carroll goes onto to fulfill the promise he showed last year nobody will care about the 35m.
[/quote]
The issue with that DB is that we didn't buy Carroll last January to be good in a couple of years. He needs to be good now and perform now or the team suffers.
It's not hard to see it being a Kenny signing - not like he hasn't had past experience in a very good big man/small man partnership up front. I could imagine him thinking when Suarez was coming in that he had a match made in heaven. The issue is that Suarez plays more closely to the big man role; he holds it up beautifull and sets up so many chances it's remarkable. What he's missing is the "small" guy sticking them in the back of the net.
[/quote]
Thats true and I think looking at CArroll last year most of us would have imagined him to be at least scoring the goals this year even if his overall game was still raw.
Disappointingly it hasn't happened but not every signing can be perfect. Utf spunked 30 odd million on Veron and he was rubbish. If we had been putting our chances away nobody would be making to much noise.
I think we can win our next 4 games and if we do we'll be nicely placed in the top 4 for the new year with a cup semi final to come. Not to bad for Kenny's first full season with a massive amount of new players trying to gel.
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47881.msg1442016#msg1442016 date=1323657100]
He's doing a fantastic job. We've played lovely football for the most part since he's arrived and Carroll and Downing apart everything has gone pretty well.
I still think in time both will be fine signings. If Carroll goes onto to fulfill the promise he showed last year nobody will care about the 35m.
[/quote]
The issue with that DB is that we didn't buy Carroll last January to be good in a couple of years. He needs to be good now and perform now or the team suffers.
It's not hard to see it being a Kenny signing - not like he hasn't had past experience in a very good big man/small man partnership up front. I could imagine him thinking when Suarez was coming in that he had a match made in heaven. The issue is that Suarez plays more closely to the big man role; he holds it up beautifull and sets up so many chances it's remarkable. What he's missing is the "small" guy sticking them in the back of the net.
[/quote]
Thats true and I think looking at CArroll last year most of us would have imagined him to be at least scoring the goals this year even if his overall game was still raw.
Disappointingly it hasn't happened but not every signing can be perfect. Utf spunked 30 odd million on Veron and he was rubbish. If we had been putting our chances away nobody would be making to much noise.
I think we can win our next 4 games and if we do we'll be nicely placed in the top 4 for the new year with a cup semi final to come. Not to bad for Kenny's first full season with a massive amount of new players trying to gel.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47881.msg1442018#msg1442018 date=1323657888]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47881.msg1442016#msg1442016 date=1323657100]
He's doing a fantastic job. We've played lovely football for the most part since he's arrived and Carroll and Downing apart everything has gone pretty well.
I still think in time both will be fine signings. If Carroll goes onto to fulfill the promise he showed last year nobody will care about the 35m.
[/quote]
The issue with that DB is that we didn't buy Carroll last January to be good in a couple of years. He needs to be good now and perform now or the team suffers.
It's not hard to see it being a Kenny signing - not like he hasn't had past experience in a very good big man/small man partnership up front. I could imagine him thinking when Suarez was coming in that he had a match made in heaven. The issue is that Suarez plays more closely to the big man role; he holds it up beautifull and sets up so many chances it's remarkable. What he's missing is the "small" guy sticking them in the back of the net.
[/quote]
Apparently Defoe might be available come the end of the season...
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47881.msg1442016#msg1442016 date=1323657100]
He's doing a fantastic job. We've played lovely football for the most part since he's arrived and Carroll and Downing apart everything has gone pretty well.
I still think in time both will be fine signings. If Carroll goes onto to fulfill the promise he showed last year nobody will care about the 35m.
[/quote]
The issue with that DB is that we didn't buy Carroll last January to be good in a couple of years. He needs to be good now and perform now or the team suffers.
It's not hard to see it being a Kenny signing - not like he hasn't had past experience in a very good big man/small man partnership up front. I could imagine him thinking when Suarez was coming in that he had a match made in heaven. The issue is that Suarez plays more closely to the big man role; he holds it up beautifull and sets up so many chances it's remarkable. What he's missing is the "small" guy sticking them in the back of the net.
[/quote]
Apparently Defoe might be available come the end of the season...
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=47881.msg1442048#msg1442048 date=1323667030]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47881.msg1442018#msg1442018 date=1323657888]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47881.msg1442016#msg1442016 date=1323657100]
He's doing a fantastic job. We've played lovely football for the most part since he's arrived and Carroll and Downing apart everything has gone pretty well.
I still think in time both will be fine signings. If Carroll goes onto to fulfill the promise he showed last year nobody will care about the 35m.
[/quote]
The issue with that DB is that we didn't buy Carroll last January to be good in a couple of years. He needs to be good now and perform now or the team suffers.
It's not hard to see it being a Kenny signing - not like he hasn't had past experience in a very good big man/small man partnership up front. I could imagine him thinking when Suarez was coming in that he had a match made in heaven. The issue is that Suarez plays more closely to the big man role; he holds it up beautifull and sets up so many chances it's remarkable. What he's missing is the "small" guy sticking them in the back of the net.
[/quote]
Apparently Defoe might be available come the end of the season...
[/quote]
I think Spurs would be mad to let Defoe go but, that said, I'm somehow still undecided on him. He looks like he can find the net, seems to have a good work ethic and yet there's still something about him that see's me question him. Don't know what it is - but I think he's the exact mould of a player we need to find.
Screw it, let's sign him. My only gripe would be that we need someone in January for this season rather than next.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47881.msg1442018#msg1442018 date=1323657888]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47881.msg1442016#msg1442016 date=1323657100]
He's doing a fantastic job. We've played lovely football for the most part since he's arrived and Carroll and Downing apart everything has gone pretty well.
I still think in time both will be fine signings. If Carroll goes onto to fulfill the promise he showed last year nobody will care about the 35m.
[/quote]
The issue with that DB is that we didn't buy Carroll last January to be good in a couple of years. He needs to be good now and perform now or the team suffers.
It's not hard to see it being a Kenny signing - not like he hasn't had past experience in a very good big man/small man partnership up front. I could imagine him thinking when Suarez was coming in that he had a match made in heaven. The issue is that Suarez plays more closely to the big man role; he holds it up beautifull and sets up so many chances it's remarkable. What he's missing is the "small" guy sticking them in the back of the net.
[/quote]
Apparently Defoe might be available come the end of the season...
[/quote]
I think Spurs would be mad to let Defoe go but, that said, I'm somehow still undecided on him. He looks like he can find the net, seems to have a good work ethic and yet there's still something about him that see's me question him. Don't know what it is - but I think he's the exact mould of a player we need to find.
Screw it, let's sign him. My only gripe would be that we need someone in January for this season rather than next.
Attractive attacking football? Yes.
Pass and move? Yes.
Beating top teams? Yes.
Beating smaller teams? No.
Creating chances? Yes
Scoring enough? No
Better Squad? Yes
Better Interviews? Yes
Better scouting/recruitment? Yes & No
Overall? Yes, by a wee margin. Until and unless we score more from all the chances created and a couple of players bought improve in the next half of the season - it will be a resounding success for a first year.
Pass and move? Yes.
Beating top teams? Yes.
Beating smaller teams? No.
Creating chances? Yes
Scoring enough? No
Better Squad? Yes
Better Interviews? Yes
Better scouting/recruitment? Yes & No
Overall? Yes, by a wee margin. Until and unless we score more from all the chances created and a couple of players bought improve in the next half of the season - it will be a resounding success for a first year.
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47881.msg1441987#msg1441987 date=1323649639]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47881.msg1441974#msg1441974 date=1323648980]
There's not a lot more to say really. Enrique's been better than I thought he'd be, which I've admitted before. Adam's got a lot better over the last month too. I'm not entirely convinced by him but there you go.
We needed and still need world class players in attack. I've talked long and hard about this many times so I'm not about to do it again. Saturdays game jus reemphasized it to me really; we're so so short of quality in attack. And the team we could be had that mega-purchase of Carroll gone on someone better, more suitable, just kills me really.
I'm still in favor of Dalglish, no doubt. But he's made mistakes, no doubt.
[/quote]
You actually called Enrique a "chump". So Im glad he's better than you thought he would be.
[/quote]
Enrique was a chump and Adam mediocre. The thing is, I'm sure Ryan would not have reached these conclusions had he actually watched these players much.
He is right that Carroll is looking like a spectacular waste of money though.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47881.msg1441974#msg1441974 date=1323648980]
There's not a lot more to say really. Enrique's been better than I thought he'd be, which I've admitted before. Adam's got a lot better over the last month too. I'm not entirely convinced by him but there you go.
We needed and still need world class players in attack. I've talked long and hard about this many times so I'm not about to do it again. Saturdays game jus reemphasized it to me really; we're so so short of quality in attack. And the team we could be had that mega-purchase of Carroll gone on someone better, more suitable, just kills me really.
I'm still in favor of Dalglish, no doubt. But he's made mistakes, no doubt.
[/quote]
You actually called Enrique a "chump". So Im glad he's better than you thought he would be.
[/quote]
Enrique was a chump and Adam mediocre. The thing is, I'm sure Ryan would not have reached these conclusions had he actually watched these players much.
He is right that Carroll is looking like a spectacular waste of money though.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47881.msg1441990#msg1441990 date=1323650011]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=47881.msg1441985#msg1441985 date=1323649586]
You're always taking a risk when buying players. We could have paid 50 million big ones for Torres. Or bought a Shevchenko.
[/quote]
I wish I had your laid-back attitude about it us buying bad players for serous amounts of money Sheik.
[/quote]
Agreed. Benitez could have won the title had he spent money better of the last couple of seasons, and it's the knock on effect further down the line. The longer you spend poorly, the more likely the lack of success will have a longterm effect on finances. You have to speculate but you have to be 100% sure you're signing the right player, Carroll doesn't fit in any way, shape or form.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=47881.msg1441985#msg1441985 date=1323649586]
You're always taking a risk when buying players. We could have paid 50 million big ones for Torres. Or bought a Shevchenko.
[/quote]
I wish I had your laid-back attitude about it us buying bad players for serous amounts of money Sheik.
[/quote]
Agreed. Benitez could have won the title had he spent money better of the last couple of seasons, and it's the knock on effect further down the line. The longer you spend poorly, the more likely the lack of success will have a longterm effect on finances. You have to speculate but you have to be 100% sure you're signing the right player, Carroll doesn't fit in any way, shape or form.
there were circumstances with signing carroll that were outside of the player. if torres left in the summer I don't think we would have signed carroll.
for me kenny is doing a good job because we are moving in the right direction, we're playing football that will initially have teething problems but will eventually pay dividens (you'd hope).
I think sometimes kenny makes poor choices (like leaving out maxi v fulham) but by in large I think kenny has got more right than he has got wrong.
for me kenny is doing a good job because we are moving in the right direction, we're playing football that will initially have teething problems but will eventually pay dividens (you'd hope).
I think sometimes kenny makes poor choices (like leaving out maxi v fulham) but by in large I think kenny has got more right than he has got wrong.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=47881.msg1442048#msg1442048 date=1323667030]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47881.msg1442018#msg1442018 date=1323657888]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47881.msg1442016#msg1442016 date=1323657100]
He's doing a fantastic job. We've played lovely football for the most part since he's arrived and Carroll and Downing apart everything has gone pretty well.
I still think in time both will be fine signings. If Carroll goes onto to fulfill the promise he showed last year nobody will care about the 35m.
[/quote]
The issue with that DB is that we didn't buy Carroll last January to be good in a couple of years. He needs to be good now and perform now or the team suffers.
It's not hard to see it being a Kenny signing - not like he hasn't had past experience in a very good big man/small man partnership up front. I could imagine him thinking when Suarez was coming in that he had a match made in heaven. The issue is that Suarez plays more closely to the big man role; he holds it up beautifull and sets up so many chances it's remarkable. What he's missing is the "small" guy sticking them in the back of the net.
[/quote]
Apparently Defoe might be available come the end of the season...
[/quote]
Defo needs more chances than Suarez to score.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47881.msg1442018#msg1442018 date=1323657888]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47881.msg1442016#msg1442016 date=1323657100]
He's doing a fantastic job. We've played lovely football for the most part since he's arrived and Carroll and Downing apart everything has gone pretty well.
I still think in time both will be fine signings. If Carroll goes onto to fulfill the promise he showed last year nobody will care about the 35m.
[/quote]
The issue with that DB is that we didn't buy Carroll last January to be good in a couple of years. He needs to be good now and perform now or the team suffers.
It's not hard to see it being a Kenny signing - not like he hasn't had past experience in a very good big man/small man partnership up front. I could imagine him thinking when Suarez was coming in that he had a match made in heaven. The issue is that Suarez plays more closely to the big man role; he holds it up beautifull and sets up so many chances it's remarkable. What he's missing is the "small" guy sticking them in the back of the net.
[/quote]
Apparently Defoe might be available come the end of the season...
[/quote]
Defo needs more chances than Suarez to score.
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