Is Kenny doing a good job?

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=47881.msg1455753#msg1455753 date=1325642867]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47881.msg1455732#msg1455732 date=1325641906]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=47881.msg1455707#msg1455707 date=1325640870]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47881.msg1455703#msg1455703 date=1325640608]
To put into context how poorly we have been run in the past three years.
In 2008 we had this team finish 2nd:
Reina, Aurelio, Kelly, Skrtel, Hyppia, Carragher, Agger, Arbeloa, Gerrard, Riera, Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun, Spearing, Wonderman, Torres, Kuyt, Babel, Keane and a bunch of other muck.
It finished 2nd.

Since then we have spent:
17,500, 000
18,100,000
2,000,000
1,700,000
2,000,000
4,500,000
2,300,000
11,500,000
3,500,000
23,000,000
35,000,000
17,000,000
8,500,000
18,000,000
7,000,000
4,900,000
176,500,000

And we currently sit 6th.
[/quote]

How much have we recouped in sales? It's not like that is net spend mate.
[/quote]I dont really care about Net spend mate. It was a shit excuse when the RCDNW used it and its a shit excuse now. If you are recouping money from sales its because you bought players that were not good enough.
The bottom line is the bottom line.
And its a very simple thing im saying.

We had the team above that finished 2nd. We have since SPENT 176m (in 3 years) and are in 6th.

And Neil. I think the club is run badly. I cant understand our transfer policy.
[/quote]

so Torres, alonso, mascherano and meireles weren't good enough?
[/quote]

players bought in the last three years so the players you listed don't count*

*except ming (who I thought was average anyway)

 

[Squiggles]

Only Meireles was signed after 2008.

 

[Skullflower]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47881.msg1455756#msg1455756 date=1325642979]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=47881.msg1455753#msg1455753 date=1325642867]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47881.msg1455732#msg1455732 date=1325641906]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=47881.msg1455707#msg1455707 date=1325640870]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47881.msg1455703#msg1455703 date=1325640608]
To put into context how poorly we have been run in the past three years.
In 2008 we had this team finish 2nd:
Reina, Aurelio, Kelly, Skrtel, Hyppia, Carragher, Agger, Arbeloa, Gerrard, Riera, Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun, Spearing, Wonderman, Torres, Kuyt, Babel, Keane and a bunch of other muck.
It finished 2nd.

Since then we have spent:
17,500, 000
18,100,000
2,000,000
1,700,000
2,000,000
4,500,000
2,300,000
11,500,000
3,500,000
23,000,000
35,000,000
17,000,000
8,500,000
18,000,000
7,000,000
4,900,000
176,500,000

And we currently sit 6th.
[/quote]

How much have we recouped in sales? It's not like that is net spend mate.
[/quote]I dont really care about Net spend mate. It was a shit excuse when the RCDNW used it and its a shit excuse now. If you are recouping money from sales its because you bought players that were not good enough.
The bottom line is the bottom line.
And its a very simple thing im saying.

We had the team above that finished 2nd. We have since SPENT 176m (in 3 years) and are in 6th.

And Neil. I think the club is run badly. I cant understand our transfer policy.
[/quote]

so Torres, alonso, mascherano and meireles weren't good enough?
[/quote]

players bought in the last three years so the players you listed don't count
[/quote]

his statement was not specific.

 

[Halmeister]

We have seen a lot of quality players leave since we finished second, though. Although we have been pathetic at spending money for the best part of ten years.

Back to Kenny... his handling of Carroll earlier this season was a bit odd, and could have damaged the lad's confidence. Bellamy, however, has said he can't play that many games anymore, so that is why he's being used sparingly. Maxi is more of an odd one which I can't really explain. Despite not being the best of players, he has this knack of creating chances and being on the end of them. We don't have enough players like that in the starting line up.

I like Kenny, and under no circumstances do I want him out any time soon. We're playing good football, and deserve to have a lot more points. It could have been better, but it could have been - and was - a whole lot worse.

Who could we get in now anyway? Somebody who would generate such a positive transformation in morale alone than Kenny has?

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47881.msg1455732#msg1455732 date=1325641906]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=47881.msg1455707#msg1455707 date=1325640870]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47881.msg1455703#msg1455703 date=1325640608]
To put into context how poorly we have been run in the past three years.
In 2008 we had this team finish 2nd:
Reina, Aurelio, Kelly, Skrtel, Hyppia, Carragher, Agger, Arbeloa, Gerrard, Riera, Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun, Spearing, Wonderman, Torres, Kuyt, Babel, Keane and a bunch of other muck.
It finished 2nd.

Since then we have spent:
17,500, 000
18,100,000
2,000,000
1,700,000
2,000,000
4,500,000
2,300,000
11,500,000
3,500,000
23,000,000
35,000,000
17,000,000
8,500,000
18,000,000
7,000,000
4,900,000
[size=12pt]176,500,000[/size]

And we currently sit 6th.
[/quote]

How much have we recouped in sales? It's not like that is net spend mate.
[/quote]I dont really care about Net spend mate. It was a shit excuse when the RCDNW used it and its a shit excuse now. If you are recouping money from sales its because you bought players that were not good enough.
The bottom line is the bottom line.
And its a very simple thing im saying.

We had the team above that finished 2nd. We have since SPENT 176m (in 3 years) and are in 6th.

And Neil. I think the club is run badly. I cant understand our transfer policy.
[/quote]

*tears hair out*

net spend isn't an excuse! it's the best way of quickly assessing what kind of investment there's been in a team. the only times i'd say it can be a bit misleading is when you sell a player for way above their true value (eg Torres) or when there has been an excessive turnover of players, therefore obscuring the volume of mistakes made and the dead money of multiple signing on fees etc.

by your logic we could sell our entire first team squad and play the kids, but as long as we spend, say, £20m of the proceeds on darren bent, we should be expecting an improvement.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47881.msg1455805#msg1455805 date=1325665589]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47881.msg1455732#msg1455732 date=1325641906]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=47881.msg1455707#msg1455707 date=1325640870]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47881.msg1455703#msg1455703 date=1325640608]
To put into context how poorly we have been run in the past three years.
In 2008 we had this team finish 2nd:
Reina, Aurelio, Kelly, Skrtel, Hyppia, Carragher, Agger, Arbeloa, Gerrard, Riera, Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun, Spearing, Wonderman, Torres, Kuyt, Babel, Keane and a bunch of other muck.
It finished 2nd.

Since then we have spent:
17,500, 000
18,100,000
2,000,000
1,700,000
2,000,000
4,500,000
2,300,000
11,500,000
3,500,000
23,000,000
35,000,000
17,000,000
8,500,000
18,000,000
7,000,000
4,900,000
[size=12pt]176,500,000[/size]

And we currently sit 6th.
[/quote]

How much have we recouped in sales? It's not like that is net spend mate.
[/quote]I dont really care about Net spend mate. It was a shit excuse when the RCDNW used it and its a shit excuse now. If you are recouping money from sales its because you bought players that were not good enough.
The bottom line is the bottom line.
And its a very simple thing im saying.

We had the team above that finished 2nd. We have since SPENT 176m (in 3 years) and are in 6th.

And Neil. I think the club is run badly. I cant understand our transfer policy.
[/quote]

*tears hair out*

net spend isn't an excuse! it's the best way of quickly assessing what kind of investment there's been in a team. the only times i'd say it can be a bit misleading is when you sell a player for way above their true value (eg Torres) or when there has been an excessive turnover of players, therefore obscuring the volume of mistakes made and the dead money of multiple signing on fees etc.

by your logic we could sell our entire first team squad and play the kids, but as long as we spend, say, £20m of the proceeds on darren bent, we should be expecting an improvement.
[/quote]Pete I honestly dont think its relevant when discussing the quality of players signed or how well a manager has done with the money he has.
Wether he has had investment in him is another matter. Im simply talking about the missappropriation of company funds.

 

[HC]

diaregarding net spend and the bigger financial picture when reviewing transfers is full on stupid.

Having said that the club has spunked silly amounts over the past few years on distinctly average players.

 

[refugee]

[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=47881.msg1455823#msg1455823 date=1325667734]
diaregarding net spend and the bigger financial picture when reviewing transfers is full on stupid.

Having said that the club has spunked silly amounts over the past few years on distinctly average players.
[/quote]

Correct on both counts.

 

[Insignificance]

Kenny is doing a good job.

He is building a team that can compete for the future. He had very high hopes for Carrol, which seem to be a mistake. Downing was certainly also a mistake. Still he is building his squad in a patience way while we still are hunting for glory at present. Hendo will come good, Enrique has been brilliant, and Bellers is a shorter time sollution with a low price tag. Maxi and Dirk will be phased out over the next seasons, and probably be replaced with younger talent. We will see more often british background (probably a big factor in both Carrol and Downing). But we have to be semi patienced and accept that the title bid will not come until next year.

This season we have played solid, created a lot of movement and passing, but not to many goals. However we look solid in defence and exciting in attack. We have lost our best players for periods (Gerrard, Lucas, Agger and now Luis) and still we put up a decent performance away against City which never conceeds anything at home. We had our part of the play but we have some players just not good enough or out of form to take those games home. If we had lost 1-0 down to the Toure header it would probably have been deserved, but 3-0 was extreme efficiency from City.

 

[LadyRed]

I think what we need to do is very clear. We need to sack Camolli

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=47881.msg1455823#msg1455823 date=1325667734]
diaregarding net spend and the bigger financial picture when reviewing transfers is full on stupid.

Having said that the club has spunked silly amounts over the past few years on distinctly average players.
[/quote]Im not reviewing transfers. I dont think anyone could argue that we have done ok recouping money on sales.
Im only interested in who we spend the money we invest on.
Keane
Carroll
Aquilani
Downing
Henderson
Adam
Etc
Im not talking about ownership or business models that work. Im talking about simple Value for money.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=Leon link=topic=47881.msg1455711#msg1455711 date=1325641032]
I don't get this net spend argument at times,the main point is that since 2008 we have practically wasted 150 million
[/quote]

It's like this, you buy a house for 1m 2 years ago, then you buy and sell it 50 times in the mean time, thus spending 50m. But you still have a house worth 1m.

But where the hell did the 50m go???? You've just wasted 50m and ended up with the same thing!!!!

 

[spider-Neil]

Decent analogy but the bottom line is we've spent close to 100m in the last to transfer windows and currently occupy the same position we finish last season.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47881.msg1455849#msg1455849 date=1325669787]
Decent analogy but the bottom line is we've spent close to 100m in the last to transfer windows and currently occupy the same position we finish last season.
[/quote]

We are miles better than the same date 1 year ago. We actually look 100 m better.

 

[singlerider]

I don't think it's the fact that we spent £176M and we're in 6th place.

It's that we spent £176M and look who we've got

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=47881.msg1455853#msg1455853 date=1325670234]
I don't think it's the fact that we spent £176M and we're in 6th place.

It's that we spent £176M and look who we've got
[/quote]

Yeah, hard to disagree. I'm still not giving up hope yet, it's still early days, our defence is pretty sound, our play is generally pretty good. We have the building blocks in place.

 

[King Binny]

[quote author=refugee link=topic=47881.msg1455824#msg1455824 date=1325667864]
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=47881.msg1455823#msg1455823 date=1325667734]
diaregarding net spend and the bigger financial picture when reviewing transfers is full on stupid.

Having said that the club has spunked silly amounts over the past few years on distinctly average players.
[/quote]

Correct on both counts.
[/quote]

Yes, regardless of how you spend that money, it is no use losing star players - Alonso, Mascherano, Torres etc. You've to look into details the ins and outs not plain figures.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=47881.msg1455851#msg1455851 date=1325670098]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47881.msg1455849#msg1455849 date=1325669787]
Decent analogy but the bottom line is we've spent close to 100m in the last to transfer windows and currently occupy the same position we finish last season.
[/quote]

We are miles better than the same date 1 year ago. We actually look 100 m better.
[/quote]

Yes, we do. Of course we'd have wanted to be further forward, but we need to keep this perspective also.

 

[zlatan18]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47881.msg1455732#msg1455732 date=1325641906]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=47881.msg1455707#msg1455707 date=1325640870]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47881.msg1455703#msg1455703 date=1325640608]
To put into context how poorly we have been run in the past three years.
In 2008 we had this team finish 2nd:
Reina, Aurelio, Kelly, Skrtel, Hyppia, Carragher, Agger, Arbeloa, Gerrard, Riera, Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun, Spearing, Wonderman, Torres, Kuyt, Babel, Keane and a bunch of other muck.
It finished 2nd.

Since then we have spent:
17,500, 000
18,100,000
2,000,000
1,700,000
2,000,000
4,500,000
2,300,000
11,500,000
3,500,000
23,000,000
35,000,000
17,000,000
8,500,000
18,000,000
7,000,000
4,900,000
[size=12pt]176,500,000[/size]

And we currently sit 6th.
[/quote]

How much have we recouped in sales? It's not like that is net spend mate.
[/quote]I dont really care about Net spend mate. It was a shit excuse when the RCDNW used it and its a shit excuse now. If you are recouping money from sales its because you bought players that were not good enough.
The bottom line is the bottom line.
And its a very simple thing im saying.

We had the team above that finished 2nd. We have since SPENT 176m (in 3 years) and are in 6th.

And Neil. I think the club is run badly. I cant understand our transfer policy.
[/quote]

I understand, I'm not saying we've spent wisely I'm just saying if we spent $176m ontop of the team we had we'd be much stronger but good players have left meaning we needed to spend to fix the team but haven't got it quite right.
In any case we play much better football and have improved but haven't had luck infront of goal. We are 3pts behind 4th, which was our goal this season.

 

[Fabio]

We have spunked fucktons on wasters though

Only good bit of business recently was jonjo

 

[LadyRed]

*cough*

 

[Gary25]