Danny Agger ... Round II
- Thread starter LeTallecWiz
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Shelvey's confidence has completely gone. It was is if he was sent on yesterday to kill him off once and for all rather than do a constructive job. He should have kept off twitter but it was understandable he felt like shoving that hollow YNWA crap back down their throats. As for Agger, he needs to play in a well-organised defence; the whole unit is in a mess, and when the unit's in a mess every defender's weaknesses are going to be exposed.
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the_khl
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I sleep like a baby. When the baby doesn't keep me up that is.
I don't have time to make excuses for Agger all of the time, he'd keep me well busy these days... 😉
And I've been staying well away from this site untill now today, as I knew that posters would be lining up to put the boot in. That's the name of the game and he was dire last night truth to be told. That doesn't mean that his worst critics on here are suddenly right, surely doesn't mean I am either mind.
We'll see, I believe it's mostly a form/mental issue.
For what it's worth I'd understand if he were to be dropped, even though he probably won't be (which I also would understand).
I don't have time to make excuses for Agger all of the time, he'd keep me well busy these days... 😉
And I've been staying well away from this site untill now today, as I knew that posters would be lining up to put the boot in. That's the name of the game and he was dire last night truth to be told. That doesn't mean that his worst critics on here are suddenly right, surely doesn't mean I am either mind.
We'll see, I believe it's mostly a form/mental issue.
For what it's worth I'd understand if he were to be dropped, even though he probably won't be (which I also would understand).
That kind of assumes that the manager can be trusted to find someone cheaper and better doesn't it. You might have faith in Rogers and his staff to unearth someone ( and fuck knows it shouldn't be hard at the moment ) but I don't
Thanks
Catch him! He's a wanted man!
I'm not so sure....... As has been said so many times, the idea of Agger is better than the reality. Never a goal threat, distribution had been average st best for a long time, but as part of a solid back 4 then looks ok. But we are shaky as fuck, and players with the amount of international experience he has should be lifting others within the team, not dragging the rest down with them!!
He was shocking for both goals but his confidence is shot.
I still think he is worth keeping as 1 poor season doesnn't mean he's going to rubbish forever more.
I still think he is worth keeping as 1 poor season doesnn't mean he's going to rubbish forever more.
No, the reason you were copping some flack, Ross, was cause you were advocating selling them but you couldn't find a CB we could buy as replacement for either of them let alone both.
It's always dangerous to fix something that's not broken which was the case of our CB pairing in the off season. To fix something that's not broken when you don't actually know how to fix it would be just plain stupid.
1. I'm not a football scout, I don't have time to trawl world football to find replacements. I prefer to leave the champ manager crowd to do that. We do have people at the club for this.
2. If you thought it wasn't broken, your judgment isn't very good. We also have a lot of people at the club like this.
Am I some sort of visionary motherfucker or are most people wilfully fucking stupid on this site? Really, I think I state the obvious a lot, the amount of people who want to believe stupid shit is unreal. In this case the people arguing against me were saying Skrtel had developed into a world class centre half and you can't sell your best players. I saw a decent CB who looked like he had the best season of his career at around the time CB's usually peak while playing in favourable circumstances.(an inadventurous defensive minded team)
Instead the fuckwits at the club bought into the same bullshit the fans did and we're now locked in at top dollar to both Agger and Skrtel for a few more years. Long live stupid managers, stupid fans and the whole stupid football population who fundamentally view the game wrong.
Heh, I'd have two points on that.
Number one, anyone who thought our CB partnership last season was broken was watching a different game. The Agger and Skrtel partnership was one of the few bright points last season.
Number two and about the only other bright point last season was that we weren't an inadventurous, defensive minded team. Certainly not in comparison to the previous decade when that assessment would have been about right.
The point on him playing well at a time when most CB's reach their peak may be right though I can think of a lot of exceptions straight off. However, the point is that there were other areas of the team that needed to be improved much sooner and you can't just replace the whole team without losing a great deal of aspects that hold the team together. Ergo, about the last thing you would replace last summer was our CB's. Especially when nobody (not just you) was failing to name a single CB who was available and of a quality that would make it worthwhile.
All this said, Agger was atrocious in the last 15; he made it look like he was dealing with Ronaldo and Pele rolled into one.
Finally someone gets it.
Come on Ross, you can't have it both ways, you're not a scout but you're happy condemn what we have - infact, you weren't even doing that individually, you were more focused on the idea that a peak player is at peak price and therefore should be saleable.
We certainly were unadventurous last season. Our midfield was static for the most part, with very few willing to commit to attack. It's much easier to defend under those circumstances.
I would've been happy to sell Agger last season, simply because his injury record is poor, and it sounded like Citeh were prepared to pay over the odds for him. Plus I've never been convinced by the Agger/Skrtel partnership. I think people here (and perhaps at the club) got a bit too caught up with the Lescott fee, surmising that one massively inflated fee deserved another. We'll never get an offer in that region again for him.
On the other hand, I think Skrtel is a more physical presence than Agger, and his progress (culminating in an excellent season last year) has been much more linear and steady. He even started adding goals to his game last year. That's something Agger has never really excelled at, with his head seemingly shaped like a 50p coin. I certainly think Skrtel had done enough to earn a new contract.
I'm still of the opinion that either Agger or Skrtel could form an excellent partnership with a more imposing centre back. Both have looked excellent in spells, but both suffer from similar frailties, which neither looks like overcoming. If we could find someone (like Sami) who could plug the gaps, and form a more complementary partnership, I think we'd still have the makings of an excellent defence.
Having said that, I also wouldn't object if we decided to start from scratch in the summer.
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the_khl
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Can you explain how Agger, whom has never excelled at adding goals to his game, has yet scored more than Skrtel?
And how do you think it shows this Season with both having scored twice?
Skrtel has in one Season, his by far best in a Liverpool-shirt, scored 4, hence he's now a better goal scorer?
How many headed goals have the two scored between them btw? On top of my head Agger has scored headers against Arsenal, QPR, United and Southampton. Two of those in this Season mind.
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the_khl
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Best post ever on the Internet.
Have we got that much of a tradition of our CBs scoring goals? Hansen rarely did so, nor did Lawro, nor did Thommo and obviously Carra was never of much use in the opposition box. Okay, attacking and getting into the box at certain times has become more of the CB's game these days, but, even so, probably only Sami chipped in with a few. Agger probably ought to get the odd goal with his head from corners but I'd be happy if him and Skrtel just improved as defenders.
I don't think that the point was that Skrtel is good at scoring, it's that Agger's ability at it is overstated. I think we can get better defenders than both of them, and we need to improve on at least one of them.
If we were in the top four maybe we could, but off the top of my head I can't think of anyone whom we could afford who'd want to come. Agger will be one of those who'll be better appreciated after he's gone and we've got someone of Ashley Williams' calibre in his place.
Yeah, maybe we can't afford better, and maybe we couldn't get them even if we could afford them. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking.
Yes, it should, with more emphasis on certain positions where we're known to be weak. And in these positions you can also justify a higher amount of your budget.
If we can't find someone in the summer, I wouldn't be buying for the sake of it. We need a top class experienced defender(or two) to make it worthwhile, if there's none available then we'll save the money or spend on another area.
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the_khl
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What really baffled me was the lack of CB links during the Summer.
I know Skrtel and Agger looked decent as a CB pairing last Season but one Swallow and all that. Ever so obvious we lacked a powerful, commanding presence alongside one of them. Blatantly obvious back then, blatantly obvious today.
Apart from Agger's personal errors, as a unit, we've looked far better defensively after Carra came back into the side. More organized and more difficult to break down only giving the opposition few clear cut chances. Better balance in my opinion as Carra offers a better out and out defensive approach than any other in the squad.
I know Skrtel and Agger looked decent as a CB pairing last Season but one Swallow and all that. Ever so obvious we lacked a powerful, commanding presence alongside one of them. Blatantly obvious back then, blatantly obvious today.
Apart from Agger's personal errors, as a unit, we've looked far better defensively after Carra came back into the side. More organized and more difficult to break down only giving the opposition few clear cut chances. Better balance in my opinion as Carra offers a better out and out defensive approach than any other in the squad.
I know it's in your nature to focus on micro rather than macro khl, but it's becoming pretty tiresome. If you look at the post in its entirety, rather than focusing on a few sentences in isolation, then the message becomes clear.
I was speaking of Skrtel's progress. He has shown steady improvement, whereas Agger has been flattering to deceive for years now. In the last four seasons Skrtel has scored 9 goals, with his best haul last year. That's progress. By contrast, Agger has scored 5 goals in the last four seasons, compared with 6 goals in the previous four seasons. That's not progress. Do you see?
Goals are very much an aside for a defender however, so forgive me if I don't engage you in a three page discussion about it.
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