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Carroll will be a Liverpool-legend

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[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46555.msg1394687#msg1394687 date=1315236765]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=46555.msg1394681#msg1394681 date=1315236101]
but never a great 20+ goals a season striker[/quote]

you're speculating, carroll was well on his way (to scoring 20 goals) seeing as he had scored 11 goals by the time we bought him in jan.
[/quote]

Amir Zaki had a similar first half to a season once.
 
Even if Carroll goes on to have an excellent season, we'll still have paid too much for him. What he does in the future doesn't make the price we paid more reasonable. He wasn't worth 35m, end of story.

But as people have said, there's nothing we can do about it now, and we have to move on and hope he's a good player for us.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46555.msg1394689#msg1394689 date=1315237157]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46555.msg1394687#msg1394687 date=1315236765]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=46555.msg1394681#msg1394681 date=1315236101]
but never a great 20+ goals a season striker[/quote]

you're speculating, carroll was well on his way (to scoring 20 goals) seeing as he had scored 11 goals by the time we bought him in jan.
[/quote]

So are you.
[/quote]

hey, I didn't say he WILL score 20.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46555.msg1394696#msg1394696 date=1315237927]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46555.msg1394687#msg1394687 date=1315236765]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=46555.msg1394681#msg1394681 date=1315236101]
but never a great 20+ goals a season striker[/quote]

you're speculating, carroll was well on his way (to scoring 20 goals) seeing as he had scored 11 goals by the time we bought him in jan.
[/quote]

Amir Zaki had a similar first half to a season once.
[/quote]

So did Alan Shearer, what's your point?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46555.msg1394493#msg1394493 date=1315199802]
I'm convinced he needs a year in the gym. Or a summer at the least.

He's huge but seems to get bundled out off the ball quite easily. He needs a bit more strength through the hips. Stand your ground and fucking monster people out of the way, that gives you a yard of space just as easily as a bit of extra pace. Look at the way Shearer used to use his body, or Drogba these days. Vieri used to be fucking immense at it in Serie A.

He's physically imposing to look at, but not to play against.
[/quote]

What does that actually mean? He just does gym work for a year, nothing else? I'm sure he can stay behind and use the Gym at Melwood if needs must.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=46555.msg1394697#msg1394697 date=1315237945]
Even if Carroll goes on to have an excellent season, we'll still have paid too much for him. What he does in the future doesn't make the price we paid more reasonable. He wasn't worth 35m, end of story.

But as people have said, there's nothing we can do about it now, and we have to move on and hope he's a good player for us.
[/quote]

my opinion of carroll hasn't changed since we were first linked with him, i.e. someone who will help us secure precious points away from home. I thought this was missing from our armoury since crouch was fucked off (and crouch wasn't that good at the role anyway). as long as carroll contributes in a meaningful way in tough away games and helps us secure the points needed to finish 4th (or higher) then he will go some way to repaying that money.

going on from this, I think Torres was very much a 'homer' (DOH! ha ha) i.e. he filled his boots at home but scored a lot less away from home, and you had owen who filled his boots away from home (I suspect because his pace killed teams on the counter) but heskey was very much a part of that set up, but as teams defended deep at home both strikers were less effective. in suarez we have a striker whose creativity will hurt teams that attempt to park the bus at home and in carroll (I think) we have a striker that will allow the entire team to push up away from home as he holds up the ball. I could be totally wrong here but that is where I see our strength in our pool of strikers.
 
Nice of you to mention Crouch, didn't it take him about 17 games before he scored his first goal?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46555.msg1394493#msg1394493 date=1315199802]
I'm convinced he needs a year in the gym. Or a summer at the least.

He's huge but seems to get bundled out off the ball quite easily. He needs a bit more strength through the hips. Stand your ground and fucking monster people out of the way, that gives you a yard of space just as easily as a bit of extra pace. Look at the way Shearer used to use his body, or Drogba these days. Vieri used to be fucking immense at it in Serie A.

He's physically imposing to look at, but not to play against.
[/quote]

The last years Carroll was a nightmare to play against. Why he hasnt turn up yet in the same capacity for us yet is something we need to adress.

He'll come good, no doubt about that though.
 
Oh, and Capello is praising Andy today saying he has looked very good in training these last couple of days.

Make up you mind eh?
 
Carroll will be invaluable in certain games this season when a different approach to using the guile of Suarez is needed. No other player in the premier league has the raw assets that Carroll has and I think he will come into his own at various points throghout the season.
 
HC , the point is shit strikers can and do have a period of months where everything goes right for them. Thats all Zaki had and its all Carroll has had too. Shearer is irrelevant, he did it consistently better over the course of a career.

The jury is very much out on him and so far there isnt a lot to be positive about
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46555.msg1394723#msg1394723 date=1315241902]
How do people view the signing of Berbatov by Fergie?
[/quote]

as an ill-advised flop, personally, but when you're a trophy-winning alchemist like Sir Alex then you get away with murder. he's made plenty of blunders over the last few years, and much of the rest were just the result of him being first in the queue (young, jones, vidic), but his strength lies in moulding whatever he accumulates into a ruthless machine. i think kenny's got a similar midas touch, and that's why i wouldn't rule out a title challenge this season: we seem to have picked up utd's happy habit of being greater than the sum of our parts.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46555.msg1394730#msg1394730 date=1315242674]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46555.msg1394723#msg1394723 date=1315241902]
How do people view the signing of Berbatov by Fergie?
[/quote]

as an ill-advised flop, personally, but when you're a trophy-winning alchemist like Sir Alex then you get away with murder. he's made plenty of blunders over the last few years, and much of the rest were just the result of him being first in the queue (young, jones, vidic), but his strength lies in moulding whatever he accumulates into a ruthless machine. i think kenny's got a similar midas touch, and that's why i wouldn't rule out a title challenge this season: we seem to have picked up utd's happy habit of being greater than the sum of our parts.


[/quote]

wasn't berbatosh one of the highest scorers of last season? how many match winning goals has he scored or how many match winning assists has he set up since he went to manu 3 seasons ago? I'm betting a lot.
 
Berbatov has been good for United they just bought him for about 10m more than he was worth
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46555.msg1394732#msg1394732 date=1315242909]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46555.msg1394730#msg1394730 date=1315242674]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46555.msg1394723#msg1394723 date=1315241902]
How do people view the signing of Berbatov by Fergie?
[/quote]

as an ill-advised flop, personally, but when you're a trophy-winning alchemist like Sir Alex then you get away with murder. he's made plenty of blunders over the last few years, and much of the rest were just the result of him being first in the queue (young, jones, vidic), but his strength lies in moulding whatever he accumulates into a ruthless machine. i think kenny's got a similar midas touch, and that's why i wouldn't rule out a title challenge this season: we seem to have picked up utd's happy habit of being greater than the sum of our parts.


[/quote]

wasn't berbatosh one of the highest scorers of last season? how many match winning goals has he scored or how many match winning assists has he set up since he went to manu 3 seasons ago? I'm betting a lot.
[/quote]

how many players did utd select before him for the CL final back in may? i'm betting a lot.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46555.msg1394730#msg1394730 date=1315242674]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46555.msg1394723#msg1394723 date=1315241902]
How do people view the signing of Berbatov by Fergie?
[/quote]

as an ill-advised flop, personally, but when you're a trophy-winning alchemist like Sir Alex then you get away with murder. he's made plenty of blunders over the last few years, and much of the rest were just the result of him being first in the queue (young, jones, vidic), but his strength lies in moulding whatever he accumulates into a ruthless machine. i think kenny's got a similar midas touch, and that's why i wouldn't rule out a title challenge this season: we seem to have picked up utd's happy habit of being greater than the sum of our parts.
[/quote]

Whatever their weaknesses are, neither of them fuck with the fundamentals.

They both recognise the importance of the physical side of things, whilst emphasising a passing game, temwork, and instilling a positive mentality in the players.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=46555.msg1394738#msg1394738 date=1315243328]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46555.msg1394730#msg1394730 date=1315242674]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46555.msg1394723#msg1394723 date=1315241902]
How do people view the signing of Berbatov by Fergie?
[/quote]

as an ill-advised flop, personally, but when you're a trophy-winning alchemist like Sir Alex then you get away with murder. he's made plenty of blunders over the last few years, and much of the rest were just the result of him being first in the queue (young, jones, vidic), but his strength lies in moulding whatever he accumulates into a ruthless machine. i think kenny's got a similar midas touch, and that's why i wouldn't rule out a title challenge this season: we seem to have picked up utd's happy habit of being greater than the sum of our parts.
[/quote]

Whatever their weaknesses are, neither of them fuck with the fundamentals.

They both recognise the importance of the physical side of things, whilst emphasising a passing game, temwork, and instilling a positive mentality in the players.
[/quote]

yep, as sickening as the comparison is to make, i think there are a lot of similarities in how they get results. there's some alternate reality somewhere where the 2 have spent the past 20 years trading titles pretty much blow-for-blow.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46555.msg1394736#msg1394736 date=1315243258]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46555.msg1394732#msg1394732 date=1315242909]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46555.msg1394730#msg1394730 date=1315242674]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46555.msg1394723#msg1394723 date=1315241902]
How do people view the signing of Berbatov by Fergie?
[/quote]

as an ill-advised flop, personally, but when you're a trophy-winning alchemist like Sir Alex then you get away with murder. he's made plenty of blunders over the last few years, and much of the rest were just the result of him being first in the queue (young, jones, vidic), but his strength lies in moulding whatever he accumulates into a ruthless machine. i think kenny's got a similar midas touch, and that's why i wouldn't rule out a title challenge this season: we seem to have picked up utd's happy habit of being greater than the sum of our parts.


[/quote]

wasn't berbatosh one of the highest scorers of last season? how many match winning goals has he scored or how many match winning assists has he set up since he went to manu 3 seasons ago? I'm betting a lot.
[/quote]

how many players did utd select before him for the CL final back in may? i'm betting a lot.
[/quote]

That's one game. Besides, they didn't win so you could argue it was the wrong decision.
 
whatever, i was hardly being serious. i'm not getting into a tedious debate about just how good a signing he was. no-one's going to say he was a great success; no-one's going to say he was a total waste of money. the overwhelming consensus would be that he was well overpriced and a disappointment, if you wanna disagree with that knock yourself out.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46555.msg1394777#msg1394777 date=1315247852]
whatever, i was hardly being serious. i'm not getting into a tedious debate about just how good a signing he was. no-one's going to say he was a great success; no-one's going to say he was a total waste of money. the overwhelming consensus would be that he was well overpriced and a disappointment, if you wanna disagree with that knock yourself out.
[/quote]

nope.
I will say though, as I've said before I think the purchase of was more than picking up a striker after our star striker had left the club (because he felt he could fulfill his ambitions at liverpool) it was about lifting moral and also showing the world we weren't a has been club. I could be wrong but that's what I think.
 
you know i was talking about berbatov, right?

as for carroll, i'm not sure what went on when making the decision. i think the owners were probably a bit nervous about selling torres without a replacment, for a start. i suspect he was kenny's choice more than comolli's, although i've got nothing more than a hunch to go on: i reckon dalglish really rates him and would've gone after him this summer anyway, so perhaps the thinking was basically that better to get him in now for a premiumin in order to make a big 'statement of intent' to let everyone know we're nobody's fool (ahem...).

who knows, though, really?
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46555.msg1394787#msg1394787 date=1315249307]
you know i was talking about berbatov, right?

as for carroll, i'm not sure what went on when making the decision. i think the owners were probably a bit nervous about selling Torres without a replacment, for a start. i suspect he was kenny's choice more than comolli's, although i've got nothing more than a hunch to go on: i reckon dalglish really rates him and would've gone after him this summer anyway, so perhaps the thinking was basically that better to get him in now for a premiumin in order to make a big 'statement of intent' to let everyone know we're nobody's fool (ahem...).

who knows, though, really?
[/quote]

you was well made about berbatosh so I left it at that and went back to talking about carroll, and I agree with your take on the events of the winter transfer window.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46555.msg1394730#msg1394730 date=1315242674]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=46555.msg1394723#msg1394723 date=1315241902]
How do people view the signing of Berbatov by Fergie?
[/quote]

as an ill-advised flop, personally, but when you're a trophy-winning alchemist like Sir Alex then you get away with murder. he's made plenty of blunders over the last few years, and much of the rest were just the result of him being first in the queue (young, jones, vidic), but his strength lies in moulding whatever he accumulates into a ruthless machine. i think kenny's got a similar midas touch, and that's why i wouldn't rule out a title challenge this season: we seem to have picked up utd's happy habit of being greater than the sum of our parts.


[/quote]

Berbs is an odd one. I'm pretty sure he finished top scorer for United and maybe even the league, but United were better off without him and Fergie knew it.

Oh and I don't mind Robbie Fowler signing on a free to lift morale, but £35M on Andy Carroll is hardly making me jump for joy.
 
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46555.msg1394702#msg1394702 date=1315238456]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46555.msg1394493#msg1394493 date=1315199802]
I'm convinced he needs a year in the gym. Or a summer at the least.

He's huge but seems to get bundled out off the ball quite easily. He needs a bit more strength through the hips. Stand your ground and fucking monster people out of the way, that gives you a yard of space just as easily as a bit of extra pace. Look at the way Shearer used to use his body, or Drogba these days. Vieri used to be fucking immense at it in Serie A.

He's physically imposing to look at, but not to play against.
[/quote]

What does that actually mean? He just does gym work for a year, nothing else? I'm sure he can stay behind and use the Gym at Melwood if needs must.
[/quote]

He's not strong enough.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46555.msg1394884#msg1394884 date=1315266877]
He's not strong enough.
[/quote]

Andy Carroll the 7-stone weakling! 😱

98-lb-weakling.jpg
 
[quote author=Portly link=topic=46555.msg1394886#msg1394886 date=1315267423]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=46555.msg1394884#msg1394884 date=1315266877]
He's not strong enough.
[/quote]

Andy Carroll the 7-stone weakling! 😱

98-lb-weakling.jpg

[/quote]

There is s sequel to that. Joe went to the gym, took up body building and became Mr universe! not what I like to see in Andy! 😉
 
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