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We've got a great team

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mark1975

mark1975

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We have, haven't we?

Let's be honest, there's fundamental system issues that are holding us back (zonal marking, poor movement offensively and defensively, low confidence, poor tactics), we've stagnated this season and generally, bar the CL success and FA Cup win, we've stayed at the same level in terms of league placing over the past decade. Yeah we've probably got a better side now and Rafa has had to improve in an arguably more competitive league, though I don't think the top sides now are as good as United and Arsenal at their peak several years back.

Anyway, if we do change managers in the Summer, I think once again they'll find themselves with a good base to work with. We all know our areas of concern. No commanding presence at the back, an inexperienced (fat?) left back, and no real genuine pace and ability on the flanks. But to work with this:

Reina
Johnson
Carragher
Skrtel
Agger
Aurelio (if ever fit)
Mascherano
Gerrard
Aquilani *cough*
Yossi
Kuyt
Torres

That's 12 players of REAL quality right there, and probably just shy of a title challenging side if we could bring someone in who has the brains and intelligence to keep it simple, basic and make us stick to the fundamentals of the game. Pass and move with quick movement, defend man to man and have the balls to leave a couple of attackers forward when we do and play a settled system that works and one that the players you have suit best, or rather - If you're going to build a side with a set system in mind, at least buy the players that compliment and suit it best.

Square pegs, round holes, why the fuck do experienced, seasoned managers over complicate things? Some players can do it, like Kuyt, Gerrard, Rooney etc, but generally buy the players that fill the gaping holes well and without question marks over position and suitability.

We've got a great team, and it'd be a shame to see it wasted any longer, it pains me seeing experienced, top quality players being made to look amateurish, short on confidence and unable to string a few passes together.
 
Hmm... it's a decent first XI, on paper. But our squad is quite obviously inferior not only to United, Arsenal and Chelsea's, but to City's, Tottenham's and probably Villa's as well.

I understand that you're trying to be positive Mark, but the days of playing 13 players in an entire season have gone, and we need a MUCH better squad than we've got to compete for the league.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39280.msg1068862#msg1068862 date=1268481035]
Hmm... it's a decent first XI, on paper. But our squad is quite obviously inferior not only to United, Arsenal and Chelsea's, but to City's, Tottenham's and probably Villa's as well.

I understand that you're trying to be positive Mark, but the days of playing 13 players in an entire season have gone, and we need a MUCH better squad than we've got to compete for the league.

[/quote]

That was the point really BM, I know we're short and we need depth, but in terms of quality we've got a great base. Of course though it could just go either way whether Rafa stays or goes, but the quality is there and a few additions could make a World of difference.
 
Liverpool striker Fernando Torres has declared that making four or five top class signings during the summer is more important for the Reds than qualifying for the UEFA Champions League.

While El Nino still believes that Liverpool will secure the fourth and final Champions League place, he has identified the transfer market as key to the future success of the much decorated Merseyside club.

"It's too soon to talk, I sincerely believe we will finish fourth but for me qualifying for the Champions League isn't so important. What's really important is that the club makes a big effort in bringing in important players that exceed the quality of what we have," he told Spanish publication AS.

"We need four or five top players to compete, better than what we have here to make us all grit our teeth and try to keep our position. Without reinforcements for a team that finishes fourth, we will again be fighting for fourth next year.

"I want to fight for the Premier League, fight for the Champions League or UEFA [Europa League] but for this we need signings."

The former Atletico Madrid captain also stated his desire to remain at Anfield and stressed the importance of the arrival of new managing director Christian Purslow as a major step forward for the club's development.

"I still have this year and three more. I've left my home and it is clear that I owe Liverpool a lot and I'm very happy here, people treated me as if I were from here. Hopefully my future will be here, I think the club deserves to win again, but they themselves know that right now that's far away," he declared.

"Fans are worried that the players go, that's a problem when you start to be afraid that your players go because then you know that the club is not going forward, but I believe this is not going to be the case at the club. Since Christian Purslow arrived Liverpool have had an important boost, we signed a sponsorship deal to match that of Real Madrid, then things will go forward."
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39280.msg1068855#msg1068855 date=1268480126]
We have, haven't we?

Let's be honest, there's fundamental system issues that are holding us back (zonal marking, poor movement offensively and defensively, low confidence, poor tactics), we've stagnated this season and generally, bar the CL success and FA Cup win, we've stayed at the same level in terms of league placing over the past decade. Yeah we've probably got a better side now and Rafa has had to improve in an arguably more competitive league, though I don't think the top sides now are as good as United and Arsenal at their peak several years back.

Anyway, if we do change managers in the Summer, I think once again they'll find themselves with a good base to work with. We all know our areas of concern. No commanding presence at the back, an inexperienced (fat?) left back, and no real genuine pace and ability on the flanks. But to work with this:

Reina
Johnson
Carragher
Skrtel
Agger
Aurelio (if ever fit)
Mascherano
Gerrard
Aquilani *cough*
Yossi
Kuyt
Torres

That's 12 players of REAL quality right there, and probably just shy of a title challenging side if we could bring someone in who has the brains and intelligence to keep it simple, basic and make us stick to the fundamentals of the game. Pass and move with quick movement, defend man to man and have the balls to leave a couple of attackers forward when we do and play a settled system that works and one that the players you have suit best, or rather - If you're going to build a side with a set system in mind, at least buy the players that compliment and suit it best.

Square pegs, round holes, why the fuck do experienced, seasoned managers over complicate things? Some players can do it, like Kuyt, Gerrard, Rooney etc, but generally buy the players that fill the gaping holes well and without question marks over position and suitability.

We've got a great team, and it'd be a shame to see it wasted any longer, it pains me seeing experienced, top quality players being made to look amateurish, short on confidence and unable to string a few passes together.
[/quote]

you've listed aqualini who has only played a handful of games but failed to list lucas who aqualini is unable to usurp
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39280.msg1068862#msg1068862 date=1268481035]
Hmm... it's a decent first XI, on paper. But our squad is quite obviously inferior not only to United, Arsenal and Chelsea's, but to City's, Tottenham's and probably Villa's as well.

I understand that you're trying to be positive Mark, but the days of playing 13 players in an entire season have gone, and we need a MUCH better squad than we've got to compete for the league.

[/quote]

Well, I think mark has a point. Don't misunderstand me, we do indeed need a better squad, but who doesn't? Look at Chavski's troubles in goal, Manure's at CB or those of the Arse in CM. The reason they've made things work (and even then not without exceptions) is that their squad players have come into a winning side. When squad players have to step up, a large part of their success necessarily depends on how successful the side is already proving to be without them, and that goes double for a manager who likes to switch players around as much as Rafa does. Much the same LFC squad was tearing up the Prem in the latter part of last season. At least some of those players would/will be OK when we get back on the rails.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39280.msg1068867#msg1068867 date=1268481678]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39280.msg1068855#msg1068855 date=1268480126]
We have, haven't we?

Let's be honest, there's fundamental system issues that are holding us back (zonal marking, poor movement offensively and defensively, low confidence, poor tactics), we've stagnated this season and generally, bar the CL success and FA Cup win, we've stayed at the same level in terms of league placing over the past decade. Yeah we've probably got a better side now and Rafa has had to improve in an arguably more competitive league, though I don't think the top sides now are as good as United and Arsenal at their peak several years back.

Anyway, if we do change managers in the Summer, I think once again they'll find themselves with a good base to work with. We all know our areas of concern. No commanding presence at the back, an inexperienced (fat?) left back, and no real genuine pace and ability on the flanks. But to work with this:

Reina
Johnson
Carragher
Skrtel
Agger
Aurelio (if ever fit)
Mascherano
Gerrard
Aquilani *cough*
Yossi
Kuyt
Torres

That's 12 players of REAL quality right there, and probably just shy of a title challenging side if we could bring someone in who has the brains and intelligence to keep it simple, basic and make us stick to the fundamentals of the game. Pass and move with quick movement, defend man to man and have the balls to leave a couple of attackers forward when we do and play a settled system that works and one that the players you have suit best, or rather - If you're going to build a side with a set system in mind, at least buy the players that compliment and suit it best.

Square pegs, round holes, why the fuck do experienced, seasoned managers over complicate things? Some players can do it, like Kuyt, Gerrard, Rooney etc, but generally buy the players that fill the gaping holes well and without question marks over position and suitability.

We've got a great team, and it'd be a shame to see it wasted any longer, it pains me seeing experienced, top quality players being made to look amateurish, short on confidence and unable to string a few passes together.
[/quote]

you've listed aqualini who has only played a handful of games but failed to list lucas who aqualini is unable to usurp
[/quote]

I think his 'quality' is obvious, his inability to break into the side can't just be factored to him being shit or not good enough to displace Lucas, it boils down to the fact the manager doesn't know how to incorporate him into the side (deja vu) and the fact we're struggling to qualify for Europe.

He might go, he might stay but I think his quality is obvious, whether he's suited for league won't really be known until he actually gets to play a few games for us.
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=39280.msg1068869#msg1068869 date=1268482010]
"Hopefully my future will be here"

Wow thats the first time he's wondered?
[/quote]

Footballers never know what lies in store for them.

Both Carragher and Gerrard, to a much higher degree, have considered playing in different colours. That's just how football can be.
 
in perspective second string...

Cav
Degen
The Greek
Ayala
Insua
Lucas
Spearing
Babel
Maxi
Riera
Ngog
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39280.msg1068872#msg1068872 date=1268483179]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39280.msg1068867#msg1068867 date=1268481678]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39280.msg1068855#msg1068855 date=1268480126]
We have, haven't we?

Let's be honest, there's fundamental system issues that are holding us back (zonal marking, poor movement offensively and defensively, low confidence, poor tactics), we've stagnated this season and generally, bar the CL success and FA Cup win, we've stayed at the same level in terms of league placing over the past decade. Yeah we've probably got a better side now and Rafa has had to improve in an arguably more competitive league, though I don't think the top sides now are as good as United and Arsenal at their peak several years back.

Anyway, if we do change managers in the Summer, I think once again they'll find themselves with a good base to work with. We all know our areas of concern. No commanding presence at the back, an inexperienced (fat?) left back, and no real genuine pace and ability on the flanks. But to work with this:

Reina
Johnson
Carragher
Skrtel
Agger
Aurelio (if ever fit)
Mascherano
Gerrard
Aquilani *cough*
Yossi
Kuyt
Torres

That's 12 players of REAL quality right there, and probably just shy of a title challenging side if we could bring someone in who has the brains and intelligence to keep it simple, basic and make us stick to the fundamentals of the game. Pass and move with quick movement, defend man to man and have the balls to leave a couple of attackers forward when we do and play a settled system that works and one that the players you have suit best, or rather - If you're going to build a side with a set system in mind, at least buy the players that compliment and suit it best.

Square pegs, round holes, why the fuck do experienced, seasoned managers over complicate things? Some players can do it, like Kuyt, Gerrard, Rooney etc, but generally buy the players that fill the gaping holes well and without question marks over position and suitability.

We've got a great team, and it'd be a shame to see it wasted any longer, it pains me seeing experienced, top quality players being made to look amateurish, short on confidence and unable to string a few passes together.
[/quote]

you've listed aqualini who has only played a handful of games but failed to list lucas who aqualini is unable to usurp
[/quote]

I think his 'quality' is obvious, his inability to break into the side can't just be factored to him being shit or not good enough to displace Lucas, it boils down to the fact the manager doesn't know how to incorporate him into the side (deja vu) and the fact we're struggling to qualify for Europe.

He might go, he might stay but I think his quality is obvious, whether he's suited for league won't really be known until he actually gets to play a few games for us.
[/quote]

you think his quality is obvious?
 
Yeah Neil, he's got a great first touch and occasionally shows flashes of brilliance with his passing. He's not gonna get a chance to prove it either way if he doesn't even get on the pitch. He's highly rated in Europe and his price tag was considered a bargain in terms of what he was considered to be worth without the injury problems.

He's flopped but can you honestly say it's solely because he's not been good enough?
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39280.msg1068880#msg1068880 date=1268484033]
Yeah Neil, he's got a great first touch and occasionally shows flashes of brilliance with his passing. He's not gonna get a chance to prove it either way if he doesn't even get on the pitch. He's highly rated in Europe and his price tag was considered a bargain in terms of what he was considered to be worth without the injury problems.

He's flopped but can you honestly say it's solely because he's not been good enough?
[/quote]

his ability is speculative currently as he hasn't played often enough to show it, I just don't think he should be listed with the players considered quality because he's done fuck all to deserve that accolade.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39280.msg1068881#msg1068881 date=1268484343]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39280.msg1068880#msg1068880 date=1268484033]
Yeah Neil, he's got a great first touch and occasionally shows flashes of brilliance with his passing. He's not gonna get a chance to prove it either way if he doesn't even get on the pitch. He's highly rated in Europe and his price tag was considered a bargain in terms of what he was considered to be worth without the injury problems.

He's flopped but can you honestly say it's solely because he's not been good enough?
[/quote]

his ability is speculative currently as he hasn't played often enough to show it, I just don't think he should be listed with the players considered quality because he's done fuck all to deserve that accolade.
[/quote]

Ok, well the potential is there for him to be a great player, I certainly wouldn't rule it out especially if we get a new manager who'll put their faith in him and maybe even know how to play him.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39280.msg1068883#msg1068883 date=1268484517]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39280.msg1068881#msg1068881 date=1268484343]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39280.msg1068880#msg1068880 date=1268484033]
Yeah Neil, he's got a great first touch and occasionally shows flashes of brilliance with his passing. He's not gonna get a chance to prove it either way if he doesn't even get on the pitch. He's highly rated in Europe and his price tag was considered a bargain in terms of what he was considered to be worth without the injury problems.

He's flopped but can you honestly say it's solely because he's not been good enough?
[/quote]

his ability is speculative currently as he hasn't played often enough to show it, I just don't think he should be listed with the players considered quality because he's done fuck all to deserve that accolade.
[/quote]

Ok, well the potential is there for him to be a great player, I certainly wouldn't rule it out especially if we get a new manager who'll put their faith in him and maybe even know how to play him.
[/quote]

I think rafa will be here next season and I think aqualini will get more games but the jury is definately out on him (aqua).
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39280.msg1068878#msg1068878 date=126848y3719]
That's not THAT bad a second string.
[/quote]

It's fucking terrible, and a large reason of why we're in this situation.

Rafa took the decision to reduce squad depth in a move to improve the quality of the first eleven. This was a measure which does have a certain amount of logic to it, because it gives the team a chance of the title providing things go your way (as we saw last season). But it's very high risk and injuries have torn us apart in the current campaign. Also for it to be successful, you've got to make sure that your first team always has a certain amount of quality in it, and, after the recent catastrophic transfer windows, this is no longer the case.

He was walking a fine line, and he's fallen off it as far as I'm concerned.
 
I agree with Sheiky about our squad players. Most of them (with the exception of Kyrgiakos) are admittedly failing to perform, but they're hardly alone in that and most of them would do well enough in a successful set-up. IMO the root of the problem lies more in the way they've been handled and coached.
 
Mark, you listed those names as some sort of wonder team before Wigan turned us over. They're not mate. We have a good team on paper, less so on grass. Our immediate competitors, the likes of Spurs, Everton, Villa etc. look worse than us when you compare a 1 to 11. Unfortunately, they seem to do better when the actual game starts. Liverpool fans always argue that their players are better than anyone else's on a 1-11, for some reason we never translate it to actual football.
We have a few good players, about 5 or 6, loads of average ones and some shit ones. We need some investment to allow us to progress and we need a better Manager to get the best out of them. At the moment, we are a top 6 side. No better. Our current Manager has enjoyed some cup success but has only fired for 6 months out of 6 years in the League. And continues to sign duffers.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39280.msg1068935#msg1068935 date=1268499512]

Mark, you listed those names as some sort of wonder team before Wigan turned us over. They're not mate. We have a good team on paper, less so on grass. Our immediate competitors, the likes of Spurs, Everton, Villa etc. look worse than us when you compare a 1 to 11. Unfortunately, they seem to do better when the actual game starts. Liverpool fans always argue that their players are better than anyone else's on a 1-11, for some reason we never translate it to actual football.
We have a few good players, about 5 or 6, loads of average ones and some shit ones. We need some investment to allow us to progress and we need a better Manager to get the best out of them. At the moment, we are a top 6 side. No better. Our current Manager has enjoyed some cup success but has only fired for 6 months out of 6 years in the League. And continues to sign duffers.

[/quote]

Those players were greatly responsible for our success last year. It's a good team lacking one vital component and sufficient reinforcements.

It's certainly better than a "few good players and five to six average ones". That's very reactionary, IMO.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39280.msg1068944#msg1068944 date=1268500833]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39280.msg1068935#msg1068935 date=1268499512]

Mark, you listed those names as some sort of wonder team before Wigan turned us over. They're not mate. We have a good team on paper, less so on grass. Our immediate competitors, the likes of Spurs, Everton, Villa etc. look worse than us when you compare a 1 to 11. Unfortunately, they seem to do better when the actual game starts. Liverpool fans always argue that their players are better than anyone else's on a 1-11, for some reason we never translate it to actual football.
We have a few good players, about 5 or 6, loads of average ones and some shit ones. We need some investment to allow us to progress and we need a better Manager to get the best out of them. At the moment, we are a top 6 side. No better. Our current Manager has enjoyed some cup success but has only fired for 6 months out of 6 years in the League. And continues to sign duffers.

[/quote]

Those players were greatly responsible for our success last year. It's a good team lacking one vital component and sufficient reinforcements.

It's certainly better than a "few good players and five to six average ones". That's very reactionary, IMO.
[/quote]

"It's a good team lacking one vital component".

Mate, when you're an old man and still saying that, remember me. Please.

xxx
 
Xabi Alonso, obviously.

If he walked back into our team tomorrow we'd be miles better.
 
it's a shame benitez didn't show any respect to alonso then. considering he made his precession of bullshit bollocks signings look like they were good.
 
alonso is badly missed and a real eye opener for all the people who thought he was overrated. his imporatance to the team was as great as gerrard imho.
 
You can argue, that despite that team looking good, Everton's squad are actually stronger than ours.

Man for man on paper that sounds mad, but looking at how each of the equavilent players in both sides have or havent performed their squad is actually better than ours.

When you have that level of underperforming (sp) in a team there's a serious problem.
 
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