Ha ha opps
The Magic that is Continio
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Two whooshes in the one thread!
I am extremely happy with his contribution. Arent you?
Hes really starting to have an influence on every game now. Not for 90 mins but an influence.
Mark's post was alluding to a comment I made 3 weeks ago when his goal total was 2 goals against QPR for the season. To suggest then that he needed to do more in front of goal was pretty fair.
Since then, he's banged in 2 worldies.
I've never disputed his ability. He's outstandingly gifted, and could go on to be world class. In fact my comments have been largely based around the frustration that the only thing preventing him from being at the elite level is a lack of goals.
There's 2 levels he can go to now in my view; 10-12 goals per year and be a Di Maria, Sanchez, type, or he could flick the switch and become a Bale, Hazard or a Neymar and score 20+ goals from left midfield, at which point he's on the level of the top 4 or 5 in the world.
I'm not sure he'll get there, but he's got the ability. As I've said, the only thing that's holding him back so far has been end product.
Who do you think is cuter him or Moreno?
That's not even a debate
I don't think he's got the pace or running power to emulate someone like Hazard or Bale, but he's got the ability. I'd be fairly happy with him being a Sanchez/Di Maria type.
Heh, hmmm.
If I had my cynical hat on I'd say that was a deliberate attempt to skew the debate towards goals knowing that Coutinho isn't really a 20+ goals a season player and is unlikely to become one.
What say you?
we need to take a broader approach and look at other great midfielders who don't score shit load of goals, and who don't have pace to burn, but still glide past players with skill and cunning.
I'm thinking Zidane, or Silva. I think Countinho could be this good.
I don't think he has the physical ability to be a Hazard/Di Maria/Bale/Sanchez at all though, those guys are burners. Coutinho has some pace, but nowhere near what those have.
I see him developing more into a Mata/Ozil/Iniesta/David Silva type, those who are more technically gifted players than physically gifted ones.
I see him developing more into a Mata/Ozil/Iniesta/
He's gonna be a better Modric
You really think he has the ability for that?
Sanchez is a 20+ goal per season player too (though he does play a lot of striker, so 'slanted' stats).
It wasn't. You'll have to take my word for that. My views on it are pretty well documented, so I've nothing to hide.
Nobody ever would have thought Bale was a 20 a season player in his early days, but it happened.
I'm not suggesting Coutinho needs to do that in order to be a success in my eyes either. I think he's got the technical ability to be great, truly great, but he needs more goals.
That may come, it may not. It's just a discussion.
Actually, furthering on this Ken... Right now his output on a yearly basis is less than that of a Dirk Kuyt. He probably gives us what Ryan Babel gave us.
Now I don't need you or anyone else for that matter to explain to me why he's a better player with greater potential than Ryan fucking Babel, but I do think some people get seduced by the style of Coutinho when in reality the substance hasn't been there enough.
He hasn't up to now produced enough end product to justify the adulation. He contributes less than Dirk Kuyt.
Right now.
Ah yes, the old 'yeah but he's only 22' argument.
I fucking HATE that argument. What were Rooney, Owen, Hazard, Giggs, Bale, etc etc doing at a similarly young age? They never get fucking brought up.
It's just the 'David Silva was playing for Valencia 8ths when he was 22' shite.
I fucking HATE that argument. What were Rooney, Owen, Hazard, Giggs, Bale, etc etc doing at a similarly young age? They never get fucking brought up.
It's just the 'David Silva was playing for Valencia 8ths when he was 22' shite.
Owen, Rooney etc were all strikers and Coutinho is a playmaker...how on earth do expect people to compare goals scored alone and conclude he is no better than Ryan Babel...
At 22, Coutinho has scored 24 goals total, Bale had 22. But anyway, the reason he's compared to Silva is because he's a similar type player to him, he's not similar to any of the players in your list. Comparing him to Owen or Rooney would be as useful as comparing him to Rio Ferdinand.
Weird postings from Ryan. Coutinho will never score 20+ goals a season and shouldn't be judged on that basis.
But why couldn't he?
He certainly gets in positions enough to get that many.
I'm guessing that's ryans point anyway
That's my annoyance with him.
Really? He's not a striker. He gets into attacking positions, but in the manner of a Silva, or a Modric. Silva, probably the best between the lines player in England has 30 goals in 148 games since joining Man City (Modric has 69 goals in 440 odd games). Silva had 10 goals in 119 games for Valencia. That's how ridiculous it is to expect 20 goals a season from Coutinho.
But none of those players manage to get in the box like Coutinho
I honestly think it's a disservice to compare anyone to Coutinho, because he such a capable footballer in his own right. He can pass, dribble, hold off players... His finishing is all that lacks. Our system creates so much space for him to exploit, why is it outside the realms of possibility that he COULD aim to get 15+ goals a season
He could get 15 goals in a sensational season, but he is rarely the man making runs in behind the defence in any of the systems we play. Sterling, Studge, even the likes of Ibe and Markovic, if they're good enough, might expect to get many more clear goalscoring chances. When Coutinho arrives in the box it will tend to be congested, where an exceptional piece of interplay, or a worldie from outside the box is required. Expecting 20 goals from Coutinho in a season is absurd. Or as the French would say, absurde.
Does Coutinho really get into the box that much as suggested above? I'm not sure he really does.
If he does, then he must not shoot a lot, because the stats say so:
2013/14: 33 games, 41 shot attempts inside area; 53 attempts outside
2014/15: 23 games, 21 shot attempts inside area; 32 attempts outside
When you look at the same shot attempts inside the area for David Silva:
2013/14: 27 games, 40 attempts inside; 11 attempts outside
2014/15: 20 games, 22 attempts inside; 13 attempts outside
and then Cesc Fabregas:
2014/15: 20 games, 6 attempts inside; 23 attempts outside
The clear difference is that Silva shoots less from outside the box. Inside the box though, both Silva and Coutinho average just a shot a game in the box, and Fabregas hardly shoots. Since Coutinho isn't that shy in shooting outside the box, I don't think it's logical to suggest he somehow gets into the box but doesn't shoot in a higher percentage shot area. The difference between Silva and Coutinho is the deadliness when they do get into the box and shoot - Silva has got 8 goals from his 22 attempts in the box to Coutinho's 2 this season.
Putting aside his stats and using my own observations - Coutinho's game is based around pulling the strings outside the box and getting the odd give-and-go when he does burst into the box. I can't say if he should be getting into the box more, but definitely there's room for improvement in his shooting - his shooting technique has improved over the last season and he now needs to work on his accuracy and power.
If he does, then he must not shoot a lot, because the stats say so:
2013/14: 33 games, 41 shot attempts inside area; 53 attempts outside
2014/15: 23 games, 21 shot attempts inside area; 32 attempts outside
When you look at the same shot attempts inside the area for David Silva:
2013/14: 27 games, 40 attempts inside; 11 attempts outside
2014/15: 20 games, 22 attempts inside; 13 attempts outside
and then Cesc Fabregas:
2014/15: 20 games, 6 attempts inside; 23 attempts outside
The clear difference is that Silva shoots less from outside the box. Inside the box though, both Silva and Coutinho average just a shot a game in the box, and Fabregas hardly shoots. Since Coutinho isn't that shy in shooting outside the box, I don't think it's logical to suggest he somehow gets into the box but doesn't shoot in a higher percentage shot area. The difference between Silva and Coutinho is the deadliness when they do get into the box and shoot - Silva has got 8 goals from his 22 attempts in the box to Coutinho's 2 this season.
Putting aside his stats and using my own observations - Coutinho's game is based around pulling the strings outside the box and getting the odd give-and-go when he does burst into the box. I can't say if he should be getting into the box more, but definitely there's room for improvement in his shooting - his shooting technique has improved over the last season and he now needs to work on his accuracy and power.
I disagree, I don't think he does get in those positions in the box. He will never score as many as a striker, has Sterling who has been playing up front scored 20, did he when he played in midfield. I think the answer is no, so why would you expect it of Countinho - strange..
Ryans point is changing like the wind because he talks shite - lets move the goals posts and ask him to score like a striker\forward. So as requested he is what strikers\forwards(which Coutinho isn't) and a couple of others for amusement did at 22.
Frank Lampard - 14 goals
Wayne Rooney - 18 goals
Michael Owen - 24 goals
Eden Hazard - 15 goals
Gareth Bale - 12 goals
Neymar - 13 goals
Adam Lallana - 11 goals - league one - couldn't score 20 in league - shocking
Joe Allen - 0 goals
So, yeah - he should be scoring 20+ as all those you mentioned have. In case you can't count that is only 1 player a striker who managed to score more than 20...
Ryans point is changing like the wind because he talks shite - lets move the goals posts and ask him to score like a striker\forward. So as requested he is what strikers\forwards(which Coutinho isn't) and a couple of others for amusement did at 22.
Frank Lampard - 14 goals
Wayne Rooney - 18 goals
Michael Owen - 24 goals
Eden Hazard - 15 goals
Gareth Bale - 12 goals
Neymar - 13 goals
Adam Lallana - 11 goals - league one - couldn't score 20 in league - shocking
Joe Allen - 0 goals
So, yeah - he should be scoring 20+ as all those you mentioned have. In case you can't count that is only 1 player a striker who managed to score more than 20...
You secretly despise Coutinho, that much is evident. Or as the French would say, évident.
You are setting him unreasonable targets. If he scores 20 goals from his position between the lines then he's not just good, he's in a class of his own completely. 10-15 goals would be immense and probably within his capabilities if he keeps improving.
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