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Still confident?

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peterhague said:
IMO Rodgers doesn't rate Sakho. I don't think he ever intended partnering Lovren with him.

I've got some sympathy for what you say about the RCB LCB fixation but tbf I read quite a few people in the summer warning that Lovren is significantly worse playing RCB so it's not solely a knee jerk thing.

I'm guessing Sakho will be up for sale next summer, and we'll hopefully bring Ilori back as Lovren's main partner. Or maybe he'll get another year as a squad player. Whatever, though, I'd be surprised if he has a long term future here.
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I don't get why, though. I can understand perhaps being a little awkward switching from one side to the other, but Lovren has gone from a very good debut, to a complete cabbage after the switch. And in any case, by all accounts he wasn't great when switched back to the left to accommodate Skrtel.

Yeah, to be honest, I don't think he rates Sakho either. Which is surprising, given that he's actually done okay when he's played. He makes the odd cock up, but positionally he's one of our better defenders... if not the best. I think there's something to work with with Sakho. I think it's too late down the line, for Skrtel, however,

I haven't seen anything of Ilori so I can't comment on that.
 
Lovren wants to be a legend but has been culpible for many of the goals shipped. He is not an upgrade on Agger at this point.

There's alot of work to do. This team is lacking a cutting edge and confidence.
 
We actually looked much more assured playing 532 against West Ham, Sterling in particular was ridiculous playing as a right wing back.
 
mark1975 said:
It does make a difference Hal. Some players like playing on the opposite side, it depends on all sorts of variables, some players just aren't that comfortable at it, it happens throughout, from grassroots to the top. Saying it "shouldn't" make a difference is naive, some players clearly aren't that good at playing both sides.

Sakho for me played well when he came on (apart from nearly killing Lovren), but he's got issues in terms of how good his touch is and how erratic he can be. His passing is good though and aerially he's dominating. Skrtel is probably the pick of the bunch and the most comfortable on the right, but he operates differently to Lovren, who pushed out and attacks the play. The problem with that, for all it's positive aspects, is that he gets caught a few times in games where he either gets outmuscled or just doesn't get there, then it creates a problem for the rest, because we are so open.

As many of us have said, we are making individual errors, but it's hard to judge how much of that is down to sloppy play, and how much is down to our overly expansive system. We need to find a balance in certain games, having only one way to play is making us look one dimensional, it's not taken long for teams to work out how to combat it. Then again, we are struggling with injury and we've lost the best player in the World. It'll take time to adjust.
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I'm going to contradict myself here, but I am/was a centreback and I preferred the left despite being right footed. But then all the other right footed players I partnered preferred the right, so I usually got shunted to the left and just got used to it. Why don't we ever see any left footed CBs preferring the right, though?

Look more specifically at myself, I prefer the left side because I'm quicker than the majority of strikers I come up against. So I let them run down the channels and my right foot is always nearest to them for a tackle. However, I can't see this being the reason Lovren prefers the left. He's not the type of defender that would rely on speed. I haven't seen enough of him to judge yet, but he went from a good debut, to being skinned and megged three times by Ludogerets players on the edge of our box. I don't think that's to do with switching from left to right.

Cheers for the insight on the rest of your post and I agree. Interesting.
 
I wonder at what point is Rodgers being too intricate playing new players and a new system, ever changing back and forth.

I'm no manager, but surely it would be better to build on last year's personnel as much as possible if you using a new system. With just one or two additions. And if you are playing wholesale new players, play last year's more frequent formations more. There's no much fluidity with a foundation so shaky. Every team will have it's issues, but the GK, CB, DM issue is the core of the team - and no striker from last season. We need some confidence toute suite.
 
Halmeister said:
I'm going to contradict myself here, but I am/was a centreback and I preferred the left despite being right footed. But then all the other right footed players I partnered preferred the right, so I usually got shunted to the left and just got used to it. Why don't we ever see any left footed CBs preferring the right, though?

Look more specifically at myself, I prefer the left side because I'm quicker than the majority of strikers I come up against. So I let them run down the channels and my right foot is always nearest to them for a tackle. However, I can't see this being the reason Lovren prefers the left. He's not the type of defender that would rely on speed. I haven't seen enough of him to judge yet, but he went from a good debut, to being skinned and megged three times by Ludogerets players on the edge of our box. I don't think that's to do with switching from left to right.

Cheers for the insight on the rest of your post and I agree. Interesting.
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No worries. I guess the simplistic way of look at it is that some wide players like to go on the outside and some like to cut in, it's dependent on what they are comfortable with. I guess some defenders are more adept at cutting out threats in different ways, blocking with their favoured foot being nearer to the opposition while also being able to rely on their favoured foot, should the player cut in. And you could also then consider how they like to bring the ball out from the back, you can be pretty strong in the tackle with both feet but more heavily reliant on one side for passing, it happens. I'm sure they are all trained to be as comfortable as possible with both feet, it comes natural to some and not to others, like anything.
 
mark1975 said:
Sakho for me played well when he came on (apart from nearly killing Lovren), but he's got issues in terms of how good his touch is and how erratic he can be. His passing is good though and aerially he's dominating. Skrtel is probably the pick of the bunch and the most comfortable on the right, but he operates differently to Lovren, who pushed out and attacks the play. The problem with that, for all it's positive aspects, is that he gets caught a few times in games where he either gets outmuscled or just doesn't get there, then it creates a problem for the rest, because we are so open.
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He also almost always looks like he's going to fall over, or do something awkward like knee the ball into the net. Now that doesn't happen very often, but when a team's counter-attacking against you at speed, that sort of awkwardness is terrifying. It gives confidence to the opposition team, and leaves teammates scrambling for the lack of confidence they have in him.
 
Fwiw about Lovren, he's getting a lot of stick, and some of it deservedly so; but IMO he's a solid defender, and better than any of the rest we have.

He might not ever be a Hyypia, but he could be a solid Gary Cahill type, and if we get that, that's good enough.

We need to get him settled in his preferred position, and with a partner who operates on the same wavelength. I just don't see either Skrtel or Sakho being the one though.
 
Judge Jules said:
...... but Sakho and Lovren *have* had a run of games and it hasn't helped either of them.
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What is this 'run of games' Jules ? And please don't say West Ham where Sakho didn't come on until 20 mins and then, although we were theoretically playing 3 at the back, he spent most of his time in a virtual LB position as Moreno had clearly been told to push on.
 
Frogfish said:
I'd like to see Sakho - Lovren given a run (at least they can speak the same language).
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Lovren did some interview when he joined and said his French was shit. I think it was a twitter Q&A thing. Sakho probably speaks better English by now.
 
cloggypop said:
Lovren did some interview when he joined and said his French was shit. I think it was a twitter Q&A thing. Sakho probably speaks better English by now.
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Lovren actually said they were conversing in French .... I doubt it's anywhere near as bad as he says, he's just being modest. He's Belgian and though Flemish they all learn French too, growing in a bi-lingual country !
 
Frogfish said:
Lovren actually said they were conversing in French .... I doubt it's anywhere near as bad as he says, he's just being modest. He's Belgian and though Flemish they all learn French too, growing in a bi-lingual country !
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He is Croatian though.
 
right - so how many insults did you all get at work today ? - had at least 2 Hammer fans come up to my floor to piss on me, and telling me 'your boys are doing a spurs ... blah blah blah ....'. Told em to get there 4-5 wins in a year done early so that there would be less stress when they face their inevitable relegation battle at the end of the season. Total Insult count for the whole day was : 5
 
I got none.

Primarily because I work with women who don't like football
 
SummerOnions said:
How impatient are you?

We're playing a lot more games this year, one of the best players in the world no longer plays for us, Gerrard is another year older and teams have wised up to our initial surprise, 'out of the blocks' approach

This isn't a short term project, Rodgers is building a team so we win the league again and again (hopefully, obv). With FFP in place and a really young team are you really expecting us to replicate a surprise Liverpool with Suarez without those key factors?

That's fucking sad dude
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No not really 'DUDE!' - been on this forum for a long time, along with a few other legends of the forum, and previously on our hunting ground on that fat duncan guys website many years ago. What is really sad is this:-


Between 1994 - 2003 :

We LFC fans use to say before the season would start - "THIS WILL BE OUR YEAR FOR THE TITLE", each defeat was seen as something of a setback on getting that title despite buying new players every week. Unfortunately the seeds of so called long term thinking with managers saying '5-year plans' started being fed to us when as a club of our size should have been sacking the fuckers until we ended up with right type.

2003-2005 : We should ' CHALLENGE' for the title was the saying then.

2005-now : Lets make sure we get 4th

Somewhere in our indoctrination by successive managers and owners we have to believe that coming 4th is like winning the fucking title. I don't want to think like that anymore guys - I have had enough, if anything last season was so exciting - our season went on in hope until we drew with Crystal Palace - and WE ALL FUCKING LOVED IT. I want the title more than anything else for our club - so when we lose I see that as a step backwards - I still think we can win it with the right tactics being employed - our players are good enough if not experienced or completely proven. I just feel that BR is trying to change too much and it is costing us - he should stick to the consistent formation and tactics we had last year.
 
moron said:
I just feel that BR is trying to change too much and it is costing us - he should stick to the consistent formation and tactics we had last year.
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That might not be possible with Suarez gone and Sturridge injured. BR has adapt for the loss of your two best attackers last season.
 
moron said:
right - so how many insults did you all get at work today ? - had at least 2 Hammer fans come up to my floor to piss on me, and telling me 'your boys are doing a spurs ... blah blah blah ....'. Told em to get there 4-5 wins in a year done early so that there would be less stress when they face their inevitable relegation battle at the end of the season. Total Insult count for the whole day was : 5
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I got it from the guy who delivered my Indian food that night.

In fairness his boss is a pal of mine and a Tottenham fan, and I had given him some grief when we beat them (again) recently.
 
moron said:
right - so how many insults did you all get at work today ? - had at least 2 Hammer fans come up to my floor to piss on me, and telling me 'your boys are doing a spurs ... blah blah blah ....'. Told em to get there 4-5 wins in a year done early so that there would be less stress when they face their inevitable relegation battle at the end of the season. Total Insult count for the whole day was : 5
Click to expand...

You work with strange people.
 
Still?

I don't really see where sufficient improvement will come from. Sturridge coming in will improve things, but our best bet for top 4 is everyone else being a bit more shit than us.
 
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