Still confident?
- Thread starter Halmeister
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Well there is that.
I think it'd be pretty serious trouble, especially if Spurs got it instead of, say Utd. Utd have got the financial reserves to still compete without that money, but if Spurs got it then you're looking at a whole new contender we'd be struggling to match. That's the last thing we need.
I'm not really worried about spurs, think united will only get better as they start to click, theyre shite defence will mean they won't be challenging at the top but they'll be right in there for 4th
i think we'll start beating teams again and look awesome once Sturridge's back.
Injuries have been hugely disruptive unfortunately and so it's hard to assess what our level will be like in 10 games or so when *fingers crossed* we'll have all of our important players fit.
It does feel that this season is going to be a bit of a write off as we try and adjust to life without Suarez and bed in half a new team.
Top 4 is not unachievable but right now it does feel like it wholly depends on Sturridge staying fit, which is a bit disappointing considering the amount of money spent. Hopefully a different picture will emerge over the next couple months and a few more players step up.
It does feel that this season is going to be a bit of a write off as we try and adjust to life without Suarez and bed in half a new team.
Top 4 is not unachievable but right now it does feel like it wholly depends on Sturridge staying fit, which is a bit disappointing considering the amount of money spent. Hopefully a different picture will emerge over the next couple months and a few more players step up.
I'm comparing this similarly to Rodgers when he first came in, & us at the start of the season last year.
He hammers the players physically & they look lethargic early on (esp at the end of matches) but tend to seem stronger & fitter towards the end of the season.
The players all need to adjust to different styles again, like the first half season he was here, & the new players adjust to the pressing & constant need to press for long periods.
Add in injuries & the fact all a lot of players played the world cup & I'm not panicking.
I think we'll come good before Christmas, & the fact most teams, including city, seem inconsistent in form & results bodes well.
He hammers the players physically & they look lethargic early on (esp at the end of matches) but tend to seem stronger & fitter towards the end of the season.
The players all need to adjust to different styles again, like the first half season he was here, & the new players adjust to the pressing & constant need to press for long periods.
Add in injuries & the fact all a lot of players played the world cup & I'm not panicking.
I think we'll come good before Christmas, & the fact most teams, including city, seem inconsistent in form & results bodes well.
R
RedZeppelin III
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just to play devil's advocate ....Even after losing Suarez should we not be pretty decent considering we finished 2nd last season and spent 116m on the team ?
Well yeah, I think so. It's not really me you need to be asking, though, is it?!
My personal feeling before the season started was that even having improved the squad a great deal, we'd probably still see a drop off in performance from losing Suarez but that over the coming seasons we'd be better for it.
Where things haven't gone as I'd expected is in how well we've adapted to playing one up front. I thought that would actually be a blessing in disguise to some extent, but it hasn't worked out that way at all: it seems that Sturridge is just better playing alongside another striker.
That is quite a big problem, potentially. It seems like all our planning has been predicated on us playing some variant of a 433.
See I don't agree with this at all.
There's probably 1, maybe 1 and a half, good midfield's in the entire league, and ours is exactly the same as last year's midfield that got us within a point or so of the title.
City have the only really good midfield. Chelsea can't play a two-man midfield because Fabregas on;y plays one way. Arsenal's is shite - they don't have one - just a collection of attacking mids wandering around. United's is completely laughable, and I couldn't even tell you who Spurs' midfield is.
I've been going on about this for years; there are no truly great midfields anymore. They don't exist. Maybe Bayern at a push? Madrid pretty much play without one.
Besides, the sides at the top have two or three world class forwards - Costa, Hazard, Aguero, Silva, Sanchez, RVP, etc and that's what keeps them there.
Our midfield's every bit the same as last season - we're just missing a couple of fucking superstars up front to win us games.
If Studge comes back and stays fit we will get top 4 if he doesn't we won't. Simple as that.
Most of our goals last year that weren't pens or set pieces, were from counterattacks, either from pressing and forcing errors, or from breaking very quickly from defense. Most of the rest of the goals were from set pieces, penos, and corners, which of course were often themselves derived from counterattacks. The midfields job in attack in these goals was often to play the outlet or through ball to get all of our best players running at full speed, and get defenders turned. We had a
"team" that essentially played an incredibly risky style of football that invited a mini game scenario where we'd get 3v3 or 4v4 etc. We'd flood forward, and let our movement, speed, and passing destroy teams. We'd also be aggressive in pressing, and make teams make mistakes, leading to more of those scenarios.
The amount of times where we'd pass the ball out of defense, ping it around a bunch against some well-drilled grid of players, all standing with their back to their goal, and create something wasn't insignificant, but it wasn't that frequent. It isn't terribly frequent in football at large, but after Rodgers largely gave up on looking to play a possession style of football, we weren't really set up to even do it. Afterall, how would it benefit us? Great, we've worked our way up to their half. Our fullbacks can now get involved in attacking play. What's that you say? Our fullbacks are the worst players on our team?
So now our team has the same style of play last year, but we lost our best player, by a fucking country mile. His effect on the team goes far beyond the totaling of his goals, assists etc. Suarez is a counterattacking force multiplier. Losing him, means losing goals from other attackers, including Sturridge. Not only does he create more counterattacks due to his pressing, and his ability to spring a counter with a turn, his dribbling and decision making was of a higher class and his speed on the ball an automatic assurance of lots of space as CBs shat themselves standing off him. Even his finishing last season was excellent.
We can certainly improve our understanding and tempo on the counterattack, where we've looked really poor. Coutinho could find form, Sturridge's return will assist, Sterling incredible rise continues. Balotelli hasn't looked awful yet, he's just looked out of place at times on a team that is trying to play the same as last year, and probably not having any more difficult putting their finger on why they are so much worse at it than I am. Balotelli's talents, while considerable are not that of a world class footballer on current form anyway, just a good one with a big name. He could certainly improve as well. All of those improvements could happen, and we'd still be nowhere near as productive as last year without Suarez on these counters.
So yea, midfields aren't important, last year we almost set out to improve competent defending isn't important either. We were a razor sharp sword with a rusty tentanus-riddled hilt, and we still almost won the league. We can't play that way anymore. When everyone acknowledged we can't replace Suarez, and our attempts to sign at least some sort of top class attacking talent were stymied, we ended up strengthening in positions which would have been a nice cherry on top, and even the difference last year, but weren't essential to many of our goals. It doesn't exactly make up for removing a cornerstone of our attacking play.
If we want to make our strengths more relevant, and our weaknesses less, if we really want to acknowledge that we can't replace Suarez, we have to adjust our attacking style, we need to find some possession, and we also have to get some value out of what was meant to be defensive strengthening. It's a big challenge for Rodgers, given the weight of expectations, that as we saw at the end of last season, aren't anywhere near as conducive to free flowing, deep dicking football as being carefree underdogs.
"team" that essentially played an incredibly risky style of football that invited a mini game scenario where we'd get 3v3 or 4v4 etc. We'd flood forward, and let our movement, speed, and passing destroy teams. We'd also be aggressive in pressing, and make teams make mistakes, leading to more of those scenarios.
The amount of times where we'd pass the ball out of defense, ping it around a bunch against some well-drilled grid of players, all standing with their back to their goal, and create something wasn't insignificant, but it wasn't that frequent. It isn't terribly frequent in football at large, but after Rodgers largely gave up on looking to play a possession style of football, we weren't really set up to even do it. Afterall, how would it benefit us? Great, we've worked our way up to their half. Our fullbacks can now get involved in attacking play. What's that you say? Our fullbacks are the worst players on our team?
So now our team has the same style of play last year, but we lost our best player, by a fucking country mile. His effect on the team goes far beyond the totaling of his goals, assists etc. Suarez is a counterattacking force multiplier. Losing him, means losing goals from other attackers, including Sturridge. Not only does he create more counterattacks due to his pressing, and his ability to spring a counter with a turn, his dribbling and decision making was of a higher class and his speed on the ball an automatic assurance of lots of space as CBs shat themselves standing off him. Even his finishing last season was excellent.
We can certainly improve our understanding and tempo on the counterattack, where we've looked really poor. Coutinho could find form, Sturridge's return will assist, Sterling incredible rise continues. Balotelli hasn't looked awful yet, he's just looked out of place at times on a team that is trying to play the same as last year, and probably not having any more difficult putting their finger on why they are so much worse at it than I am. Balotelli's talents, while considerable are not that of a world class footballer on current form anyway, just a good one with a big name. He could certainly improve as well. All of those improvements could happen, and we'd still be nowhere near as productive as last year without Suarez on these counters.
So yea, midfields aren't important, last year we almost set out to improve competent defending isn't important either. We were a razor sharp sword with a rusty tentanus-riddled hilt, and we still almost won the league. We can't play that way anymore. When everyone acknowledged we can't replace Suarez, and our attempts to sign at least some sort of top class attacking talent were stymied, we ended up strengthening in positions which would have been a nice cherry on top, and even the difference last year, but weren't essential to many of our goals. It doesn't exactly make up for removing a cornerstone of our attacking play.
If we want to make our strengths more relevant, and our weaknesses less, if we really want to acknowledge that we can't replace Suarez, we have to adjust our attacking style, we need to find some possession, and we also have to get some value out of what was meant to be defensive strengthening. It's a big challenge for Rodgers, given the weight of expectations, that as we saw at the end of last season, aren't anywhere near as conducive to free flowing, deep dicking football as being carefree underdogs.
Same personnel but Gerrard being a year old is going to be a downgrade.
I don't think a midfield 3 of Blind, Herrera, Di Maria and Mata are laughable, certainly not fantastic but completely laughable?
Probably against the top teams we will need to replace Mata with Carrick to make us a bit more solid.
It does seem its down to Sturridges fitness, or Balotelli's ability to adapt. Thankfully our main rivals are still very close, and our main competition for fourth is only a point ahead of us without having played any of the top six. We have to start winning now though, this has already spiralled too far out of control, when you're spending the entire season trying to play catch up in the premier league, you invariably don't.
I think he means in terms of shape and importance, it'll be your attack that will get you by. Blind and Herrera are good players but it doesn't equate to a great midfield, while Di Maria and Mata are both essentially attackers. We have a good midfield but the balance is completely wrong and we lack a player who can do the job that Lucas does consistently. It wouldn't be so much of an issue, but it's getting magnified at the minute because we're not scoring goals and we're shipping them at the other end.
Gerrard is 2-3 months older. He hasn't wildly changed.
And as for your midfield; You've listed a winger, an attacking midfielder who you don't play, and 2 guys who have played what, 2 matches togethor? And in one of them you got run all over by Leicester City.
Your midfield is shite.
I don't think it is a great midfield but isn't laughable either.
Yes Di Maria and Mata are attackers, but what great midfield doesn't have attackers in it?
Does that 116m start week-in week-out ? Are any of those players injured ? Do you not give players any time to bed in ? Your Devil's Advocate sound like a Manc. 🙄
At 34 every 2-3 months will make a difference though. You are going to have the same Gerrard by the end of this season as you had during last season.
Yes I listed 2 attackers in a midfield 4 hardly that unbalanced.
Mata will get as many games as our other attacking players over the course of the season. I think it will be RvP that losses out over the course of the season rather than Mata.
Yes Herrera and Blind have only played 2 games together, certainly not enough to say they will be great but how is it enough to say they are laughable and shite?
Yeah no excuses for Leicester we were shocking and completely lost the head once we conceded that penalty.
Quasi racist!
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