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Sadio Mane
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Once again, Mane is NOT the same as Downing or Carroll, he is a far superior player who can still improve. I would have loved to have signed Dembele or Sane, but beyond this pair Mane is the best choice I can think of among players who are available (including Gotze). I'm glad we ended up signing him instead of blowing that budget on Alex Teixeira in the winter – the money is similar, but we are likely to get a lot more long-term value out of Mane.
I was really just having a laugh RA. "Premiership proven" is one of those phrases that's supposed to reassure on signings but they don't turn out too great 🙂
You just never know... but an exciting signing would be good. I was genuinely excited when we signed Suarez and to this day I can't believe no-one else was in for him. Maybe because he was a lunatic. But he was one of those players you knew had some magic.
Would love a player with some Magic up front. Not a team of plodders. ALSO, I want us to sell Henderson. Very pedestrian player.
Many Liverpool fans are upset at the prospect of Sadio Mane joining the Reds from Southampton for £30m.
But Saints fan Chris Rann , who runs Southampton fansite George Weah's Cousin , reckons the Reds could have a 'world beater' on their hands - and says all parties will be pleased with the deal.
What are your initial thoughts on the news that Liverpool have agreed a £30m deal for Sadio Mane?
Chris Rann: Disappointment. I'm a big fan of him as a player, and I think he will be difficult for Saints to replace. On his day the lad is a world beater, and almost unplayable. He's still young and rough around the edges, but when he's on form he is electric to watch. He is one of those players that gets you out of your seat. When he goes through on goal, start the celebrations.
Are Liverpool getting value for money in this deal? Or will Southampton be more than happy with the fee?
CR: I think this is one of those situations where everyone will walk away from the negotiating table relatively pleased. Liverpool are getting a great player with huge potential and Saints are getting a decent return on someone that would likely not look to sign a new deal in a year's time and leave for peanuts. Saints have built a good record over the past 5 years of selling for profit and replacing well for half the price, hopefully this will be no different.
Sadio Mane: in numbers
15 Goals
6 Assists
52% Shot accuracy
81% Pass accuracy
41 Chances created
What are Mane's strengths and weaknesses?
CR: His strengths are certainly, pace, skill and finishing, the combination of which sees him tear teams apart (which Liverpool experienced first hand last season). Defenders seem frightened of him when he runs at them. His weaknesses are perhaps his concentration and discipline.
He does blow hot and cold, and often games he can't get into will pass him by. He has an issue with time-keeping, and can lose his head on the pitch.
Mane played both out wide and centrally for Southampton, what was his best position?
CR: Personal preference is as a second striker, in the centre where he can do most damage, but I do think he is one of those players who is great in any attacking position when he is in form.
You must be sick of the sight of Liverpool now - how does he compare to the other players the Reds have signed from Southampton? Who were you most disappointed to lose?
CR: I think due to the long term relationship with the club, Lallana's exit will always be the most disappointing. There was an unnecessary lack of respect shown to the club that made the man in that situation. Purely from a football point of view though Mane is the best you will have signed from us. I think the sky is the limit for him if he keeps his head down and shows what he can do.
With respect to Liverpool, I would have though he might have gone to someone already in the Champion's League. Pep Guardiola was sniffing around him while still at Bayern for instance.
Southampton seem to have a very good scouting department - who are they?
CR: The onus has always been on the mysterious 'Black Box' a custom made piece of software that manages a database of all potential new signings based on particular attributes that fit 'The Southampton Way'. As for the humans working with it, they are perhaps more mysterious still! I was led to believe that Liverpool use the same people!
But Saints fan Chris Rann , who runs Southampton fansite George Weah's Cousin , reckons the Reds could have a 'world beater' on their hands - and says all parties will be pleased with the deal.
What are your initial thoughts on the news that Liverpool have agreed a £30m deal for Sadio Mane?
Chris Rann: Disappointment. I'm a big fan of him as a player, and I think he will be difficult for Saints to replace. On his day the lad is a world beater, and almost unplayable. He's still young and rough around the edges, but when he's on form he is electric to watch. He is one of those players that gets you out of your seat. When he goes through on goal, start the celebrations.
Are Liverpool getting value for money in this deal? Or will Southampton be more than happy with the fee?
CR: I think this is one of those situations where everyone will walk away from the negotiating table relatively pleased. Liverpool are getting a great player with huge potential and Saints are getting a decent return on someone that would likely not look to sign a new deal in a year's time and leave for peanuts. Saints have built a good record over the past 5 years of selling for profit and replacing well for half the price, hopefully this will be no different.
Sadio Mane: in numbers
15 Goals
6 Assists
52% Shot accuracy
81% Pass accuracy
41 Chances created
What are Mane's strengths and weaknesses?
CR: His strengths are certainly, pace, skill and finishing, the combination of which sees him tear teams apart (which Liverpool experienced first hand last season). Defenders seem frightened of him when he runs at them. His weaknesses are perhaps his concentration and discipline.
He does blow hot and cold, and often games he can't get into will pass him by. He has an issue with time-keeping, and can lose his head on the pitch.
Mane played both out wide and centrally for Southampton, what was his best position?
CR: Personal preference is as a second striker, in the centre where he can do most damage, but I do think he is one of those players who is great in any attacking position when he is in form.
You must be sick of the sight of Liverpool now - how does he compare to the other players the Reds have signed from Southampton? Who were you most disappointed to lose?
CR: I think due to the long term relationship with the club, Lallana's exit will always be the most disappointing. There was an unnecessary lack of respect shown to the club that made the man in that situation. Purely from a football point of view though Mane is the best you will have signed from us. I think the sky is the limit for him if he keeps his head down and shows what he can do.
With respect to Liverpool, I would have though he might have gone to someone already in the Champion's League. Pep Guardiola was sniffing around him while still at Bayern for instance.
Southampton seem to have a very good scouting department - who are they?
CR: The onus has always been on the mysterious 'Black Box' a custom made piece of software that manages a database of all potential new signings based on particular attributes that fit 'The Southampton Way'. As for the humans working with it, they are perhaps more mysterious still! I was led to believe that Liverpool use the same people!
'Cunt'
Or else he has a relationship with Mane's agents - who are a German agency.
I'm just a fan of his name, that was the ....oh forget it
Fuck that, get in!!!
Rurik, I'm not implying that he's the same as Downing or Carroll. I've already said earlier in this thread that I quite like him as a player - he's got pace, directness and goals, and definitely fits a need at that RWF position that Klopp has clearly been looking to address since January (given the links to Teixeira, Dembele and Gotze).
The trouble is I can never quite keep out the fees in judging a signing. 34 million should get you a player who can transform an attack, even in the current market (regardless of the Troy Deeney madness - let's not forget United have signed Mkhitaryan for 23 million, and City have signed Gundogan for 21 million). Mane isn't a player with that ability. He's a player who'll provide pace and about 10-12 goals a season. That's a complimentary player - not someone who can make the centerpiece of your attack. His value should be 15-18 million tops. Just like the value for Lallana should have been 12-15 million. We've ended up paying double for both.
As for alternatives, I think if the idea was to sign simply a complimentary player, there were plenty we could have signed for cheaper. E.g. - Yarmolenko, Bellarabi, Ghezzal, Herrmann, Ziyech, Wijnaldum, Rafa Silva.
And if the idea was to look for alternatives to Sane and Dembele, we could have looked at Berardi, Inaki Williams, El Ghazi, and the two Brazilians in Gabigol and Jesus.
Instead, we've just been typically unimaginative, and spent a bomb on someone who's unlikely to ever be top class.
Morata went for 22 million. Gaitan went for 18 million. Wanyama went for 11 million. Dembele and Embolo both went for 18 million.
There'll be another 10 examples I'll be able to give by the time this transfer window is over. Will we analyse the special circumstances in each of them? Or just accept that value can be found in every transfer window if you know how to look for it?
There'll be another 10 examples I'll be able to give by the time this transfer window is over. Will we analyse the special circumstances in each of them? Or just accept that value can be found in every transfer window if you know how to look for it?
So we're signing another nobody from Southampton for crazy money?
This is too easy:
That quote is most likely misattributed, there is no proof Einstein said it.
What? Are you mad?
They are different types of players. Of course. See dmishra's post above who has captured what I wanted to say more eloquently.
@dmishra I understand you to some extent – every transfer season I find myself not being quite able to adjust to the player price inflation. Just a few years ago £50M for Sterling would have been absolutely bonkers and now any attacking player with a hint of world-class potential is being quoted for 50M+. It's clear that there has been yet another inflation in the EPL this season, perhaps an unusually large one due to the new TV deal.
With that in mind, your benchmark of 15-18M for a player like Mane is way, way off. And the examples you cite are all flawed. Gundogan and Mkhitaryan both had 1 year left on their contracts. Morata didn't "go for 22 million" – Madrid activated a buy-back close in order to sell him at a profit (prices quoted for Morata are £45M+ and as high as £60M – that's despite him not being a regular starter at Juventus!). Troy Deeney price is not some crazy exception – that's the new reality, the reality of £57M for Martial, £40M+ for Sane, Saul Niguez (who?) being quoted £54M and Eric Bailly (again, who?) moving to United for £32M.
I would have loved to get Sane even for £40M (although it's just as difficult to wrap your head around as £35M for Mane, given that Sane is just a talent and nowhere near a sure thing at this point. Think Ibe if he had a good debut season, that's pretty much where Sane is right now) and I suspect Klopp would too, but we just can't compete with Man City financially (and Guardiola is at least as big a draw as Klopp). So in this market, I'm quite happy to get Mane for whatever crazy price it took. I feel he is a player with genuine talent and upside; I don't get a feeling of "settling my expectations" with him as I did (and said so at the time) when we blew big money on Carroll, Benteke and to some extent Lallana – I think Mane has all the tools of a top-class player and his biggest issue is consistency. I also think we've got two incredible bargains in Matip and Karius, so we've got to still have some budget left for more signings even after spending big on Mane (especially if Benteke is sold). I like how Klopp is handling transfers - looking for bargains when available, but not afraid to overpay sometimes to get a player he really wants. This is exactly the right attitude.
With that in mind, your benchmark of 15-18M for a player like Mane is way, way off. And the examples you cite are all flawed. Gundogan and Mkhitaryan both had 1 year left on their contracts. Morata didn't "go for 22 million" – Madrid activated a buy-back close in order to sell him at a profit (prices quoted for Morata are £45M+ and as high as £60M – that's despite him not being a regular starter at Juventus!). Troy Deeney price is not some crazy exception – that's the new reality, the reality of £57M for Martial, £40M+ for Sane, Saul Niguez (who?) being quoted £54M and Eric Bailly (again, who?) moving to United for £32M.
I would have loved to get Sane even for £40M (although it's just as difficult to wrap your head around as £35M for Mane, given that Sane is just a talent and nowhere near a sure thing at this point. Think Ibe if he had a good debut season, that's pretty much where Sane is right now) and I suspect Klopp would too, but we just can't compete with Man City financially (and Guardiola is at least as big a draw as Klopp). So in this market, I'm quite happy to get Mane for whatever crazy price it took. I feel he is a player with genuine talent and upside; I don't get a feeling of "settling my expectations" with him as I did (and said so at the time) when we blew big money on Carroll, Benteke and to some extent Lallana – I think Mane has all the tools of a top-class player and his biggest issue is consistency. I also think we've got two incredible bargains in Matip and Karius, so we've got to still have some budget left for more signings even after spending big on Mane (especially if Benteke is sold). I like how Klopp is handling transfers - looking for bargains when available, but not afraid to overpay sometimes to get a player he really wants. This is exactly the right attitude.
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From Andy (our man in Southampton)
Ok so on his day he's completely unplayable (remember that 3min hatrick?) runs at people, exciting to watch. Can finish pretty well.
However also went about 2 months over the winter without a goal. Looked frustrated and just couldn't be bothered to be at Southampton. Great player but if he has to sit on the bench a lot up at L'pool he's liable to throw a strop. But then again he would've tripled his wages so that might cheer him up a bit Overall I'm gutted he's going as I loved watching him when he was in form and he frightens defenders.
Oh and you know it's ACON next winter so you might not have him that much in his first season!
Ok so on his day he's completely unplayable (remember that 3min hatrick?) runs at people, exciting to watch. Can finish pretty well.
However also went about 2 months over the winter without a goal. Looked frustrated and just couldn't be bothered to be at Southampton. Great player but if he has to sit on the bench a lot up at L'pool he's liable to throw a strop. But then again he would've tripled his wages so that might cheer him up a bit Overall I'm gutted he's going as I loved watching him when he was in form and he frightens defenders.
Oh and you know it's ACON next winter so you might not have him that much in his first season!
Yeah, but people keep quoting it, believing this time it'll be true.
Heh, no one is arguing about that. At all.
My only issue is, if Mane was Klopps preffered choice for a goalscoring winger if the Dembele transfer didnt happen. Should he spend the extra millions on getting his target or look towards another more valued transfer inform of money spent? 30 mill is an insane amount no matter how we dress it up mind. We all agree there.
Both Karius and Matip have been excellent signings in terms of value for money. Its not like we're not able to spot a good deal either so I think we know "how to look for it".
Try to Google it and find where Einstein wrote this and his exact wording.
Good post that
The thing with your fastest players is you need to play in a way that allows them to use that exceptional pace. We do that when we counter attack. But has counter attacking been our weakness? I don't think so. We've looked good - and fast - on the break. Most would surely agree about that? Where we've looked poor is when we've built up slowly, the opponents have sat back, and we need to find a way through. So now, we'll be even swifter on the break. Great. But what of the bigger problem? Coutinho, passing into defenders' legs? That's not solved by adding pace. We need a clever, crafty, incisive ball player.
I actually don't agree. We got better at this after Klopp had a few months to work with the players, but still, having followed Dortmund under Klopp for years, I would say we are at perhaps 50% of Dortmund's effectiveness on the counter and they didn't necessarily have better players. We need more pace and better decision-making (that's why I've been so critical of Coutinho and Lallana). Mane adds a crucial piece to the puzzle.
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You keep saying the same thing.
And one final thing before I log off, I don't know why people keep slagging off the "transfer committee" and saying this has been the continuation of past mistakes, when it's clear the way we conduct transfers is already markedly different under Klopp. We would not have signed a player like Grujic under Rodgers. We certainly would not have signed Karius and while I could see the transfer committee under Rodgers being interested in Matip, I suspect it's Klopp's reputation that proved decisive in finalizing the deal as Matip had lots of other options having run down his contract. I think it's just a coincidence that a player Klopp already liked and followed for years has been snapped up by Southampton – so now he does something remotely similar to what Rodgers would have done (although as I explained before, it's only similar at a first glance) and LFC fans go into a meltdown. The definition of insanity and all that. Have some fucking faith.
I'll update "Summer Summary" and go offline for a few days.
I'll update "Summer Summary" and go offline for a few days.
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It depends on your puzzle. I'm all for more pacey players. But time and again last season, especially at home, it was how to find a way though massed defences that was the problem. Is Mane especially good at decision making? I don't know. After Suarez we've looked clueless when facing that line of defenders on the edge of the area. That's my piece of the jigsaw, and it's still absent.
I hope this isn't one of those signings were he scores a couple of early goals, goes missing for 7 months, then bangs a few more in in totally meaningless games as we canter to 8th place. Thereby making his season stats look half decent. Like most of our other signings.
If you're forking out 34M, he has to hit the ground running, has to be consistent and has to be top drawer. And if he isn't, what the fuck are you doing paying 34M for him?
Surely signing Real Madrid/Barca/Bayern reserves is better than signing Southampton's first team? And cheaper.
Good luck lad, you might need it.
If you're forking out 34M, he has to hit the ground running, has to be consistent and has to be top drawer. And if he isn't, what the fuck are you doing paying 34M for him?
Surely signing Real Madrid/Barca/Bayern reserves is better than signing Southampton's first team? And cheaper.
Good luck lad, you might need it.
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