Lucas Leiva - Wonderman.

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47619.msg1430719#msg1430719 date=1321984713]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47619.msg1430717#msg1430717 date=1321984583]
We need to sell him to Chelsea in 3 years while his value is sky high (20m). That's all that matters anymore.
[/quote]

On that topic, what would Lucas fetch if we made him available ?

Who would buy him ?
[/quote]

Around £7.5m

Some Spanish side probably

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430720#msg1430720 date=1321984746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47619.msg1430715#msg1430715 date=1321984415]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430713#msg1430713 date=1321984161]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47619.msg1430706#msg1430706 date=1321983725]
You're forgetting we're effectively a midtable club (anyone outside the top four for me is midtable), and have been during all the time Lucas has been a first team regular (finishing 7th and 6th in his two full seasons of starting). I don't believe that to be a complete and utter coincidence.

I don't think where you play has much bearing on what you'll become either, to take Scott Parker as an example why does it matter he was at Charlton ? He was dragging an average squad to the brink of CL qualification when Chelsea bought him (and Charlton were chasing Chelsea at that time). Lucas is doing nothing remotely close to that.
[/quote]

You can't attribute success or lack of it to one players performance alone. It's a team game Ross and saying we finished 6th/7th because of Lucas alone is completely baffling. If he was so consistently the weak link why is it he ends up in the top 3 MOTM all the time ? Because everyone who voted for him was wrong ? Or just simply unbiased ?
[/quote]

Where am I attributing it all to him ?

I'm not. but he's a key factor in it all. Just like Glen Johnson.
[/quote]

And Pepe Reina. And Steven Gerrard. And Mascherano, And Carra, And Torres, And Skrtel, And Benitez ...etc....... all contribute to performances and results. 11 players, one manager = one team
[/quote]

Yes and you improve that team by removing the weaker players from it, not the great ones.

 

[Sunny]

I think he's worth more than that. Mind you it was said today Nathan Dyer is worth £12m so he's probably worth £20m.

 

[Le Chacal]

The only club that wanted to buy him was Palermo. Sums it all up.
Thats his level.

 

[Rosco]

How do you determine the top 7 Spidey ? Is it an arbitrary list you decide at the beginning of the season, or is it if a team is in the top 7 at the time we play them you put him in ?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47619.msg1430726#msg1430726 date=1321985276]
How do you determine the top 7 Spidey ? Is it an arbitrary list you decide at the beginning of the season, or is it if a team is in the top 7 at the time we play them you put him in ?
[/quote]

I gave a number, specificially;
manu
man city
arsenal
chelsea
spurs
and everton because it's a derby

so that's six, fling newcastle in there as well I guess.

 

[themn]

Well, I never !

What a to-do !!

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47619.msg1430724#msg1430724 date=1321985039]
I think he's worth more than that. Mind you it was said today Nathan Dyer is worth £12m so he's probably worth £20m.
[/quote]

Yeah it is tough to call.

Even putting aside his early performances for us, i think part of the problem is that he's stepped into Mascher's shoes (from a fans point of view).

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47619.msg1430714#msg1430714 date=1321984220]
How many cups of coffee have you had today Oncy?
[/quote]3. 3 little ones.
Why?

 

[themn]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430742#msg1430742 date=1321988015]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=47619.msg1430714#msg1430714 date=1321984220]
How many cups of coffee have you had today Oncy?
[/quote]3. 3 little ones.
Why?
[/quote]

Lol.

 

[KopKing]

I love Lucas topics. I think the posters who think he's crap will always think he's crap no matter what he does or what the stats say. He's a key player now so live with it, I think Lucas will be Captain in 4 years.

 

[Dreambeliever]

He still needs to offer more assists and goals going forward to warrant a place in the side week in week out.

 

[Le Chacal]

In 4 years he will be captain of Gremio.
Brazilian mid table team.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47619.msg1430866#msg1430866 date=1322022380]
He still needs to offer more assists and goals going forward to warrant a place in the side week in week out.
[/quote]

Why does he? He's a DM. Did Mascherano, who many laud on here ?

 

[mark1975]

I don't think there's any getting away from the fact he can be ordinary in games, but when he's not there you notice it, we certainly missed him at home against Norwich, everyone thought we'd steamrole them with an attacking line up, instead we left holes all over the midfield.

There's also no getting away from the fact that he consistently has good games against the top sides, particularly Chelsea (who on paper would be the team you'd think he'd be least likely to have success against).

He's young and is improving all the time. I still think we need something of an enforcer in the the midfield as an either/or, but he's getting better and building a decent partnership with Adam.

 

[Ossi]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=47619.msg1430792#msg1430792 date=1321995753]
I love Lucas topics. I think the posters who think he's crap will always think he's crap no matter what he does or what the stats say. He's a key player now so live with it, I think Lucas will be Captain in 4 years.
[/quote]

I´ve never rated him, now I think he´s ok overall...even very good at some games.

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47619.msg1430866#msg1430866 date=1322022380]
He still needs to offer more assists and goals going forward to warrant a place in the side week in week out.
[/quote]

This.

I dont buy into this great player etc etc stuff yet tbh but it is only fair that after the amount of shit Lucas has been through for him to become a consistently good performer in our midfield is a great credit to him and he does deserve a bit of love from us fans for that...

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47619.msg1430866#msg1430866 date=1322022380]
He still needs to offer more assists and goals going forward to warrant a place in the side week in week out.
[/quote]

I don't believe that at all, when I say more going forwards I'm talking about presence in the opposition half and/or balls played into dangerous areas. goals and assists would just be a bonus, I wouldn't expect that to happen.

 

[Oncy]

Pa-hahahahahahaha!!

 

[Modo]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=47619.msg1430904#msg1430904 date=1322040849]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47619.msg1430866#msg1430866 date=1322022380]
He still needs to offer more assists and goals going forward to warrant a place in the side week in week out.
[/quote]

This.

I dont buy into this great player etc etc stuff yet tbh but it is only fair that after the amount of shit Lucas has been through for him to become a consistently good performer in our midfield is a great credit to him and he does deserve a bit of love from us fans for that...
[/quote]

Tell me how many goals and assists did Mascherano get?

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47619.msg1430929#msg1430929 date=1322045754]
Pa-hahahahahahaha!!
[/quote]

yup

i want him to be more adventurous yet i don't expect him to score or assist

sound

 

[spider-Neil]

how many goals did alonso get from open play?
how many assists did alonso get from open play?
and alonso is about as good as it gets in his position.

if lucas is making forward runs and if offering himself as a passing option, if he is making forward passes in dangerous areas to open up defences that would be enough for me.
people are taking me way to literal when I say I want more going forwards.
if lucas makes a lung bursting run into the opposition half, dragging several players towards him and then releases the ball to an attacker who in turn feeds a striker who scores that's not an assist but his role in the goal would be an important one.

the obvious example is lucas' role in the second away goal at arsenal.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430940#msg1430940 date=1322047537]
how many goals did alonso get from open play?
how many assists did alonso get from open play?
and alonso is about as good as it gets in his position.

if lucas is making forward runs and if offering himself as a passing option, if he is making forward passes in dangerous areas to open up defences that would be enough for me.
people are taking me way to literal when I say I want more going forwards.
if lucas make a lung burst run into the opposition half, dragging several players towards him and then releases the ball to an attacker who in turn feeds a striker who scores that's not an assist but his role in the goal would be an important one.

the obvious example is lucas' role in the second away goal at arsenal.
[/quote]

but neil, adam is the one playing the alonso role, so he's the one who should be drifting forward and making those passes. And he has been.

so, as has been asked already, how many goals and assists did mascher get? A player who lucas replaced

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47619.msg1430941#msg1430941 date=1322047678]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47619.msg1430940#msg1430940 date=1322047537]
how many goals did alonso get from open play?
how many assists did alonso get from open play?
and alonso is about as good as it gets in his position.

if lucas is making forward runs and if offering himself as a passing option, if he is making forward passes in dangerous areas to open up defences that would be enough for me.
people are taking me way to literal when I say I want more going forwards.
if lucas make a lung burst run into the opposition half, dragging several players towards him and then releases the ball to an attacker who in turn feeds a striker who scores that's not an assist but his role in the goal would be an important one.

the obvious example is lucas' role in the second away goal at arsenal.
[/quote]

but neil, adam is the one playing the alonso role, so he's the one who should be drifting forward and making those passes. And he has been.

so, as has been asked already, how many goals and assists did mascher get? A player who lucas replaced
[/quote]

the differance is mash did his work further up the pitch so gave the attackers the ball faster and won the ball back faster, lucas players deeper than that that's why I compare him to alonso (probably unfairly). so lucas is winning the ball in a deeper position and from that deeper position he effectively gives nothing going forwards so he isn't offering what mash or alonso did. to be fair lucas is a far better passer of the ball then mash.

 

[Fabio]

So you admit he's a better passer than masch, and i think he's as good defensively, yet you'd rather change the way he plays so he goes forward more, leaving spaces behind him for the opposition to exploit?

I appreciate you wish we played a 2-1-7 but...christ....You can't justify DM who attacks partnering a CM who attacks, who in turn are joined by attacking fullbacks, as well as the wingers and strikers

Besides, have you seen the chelsea highlights (don't bother, i know you have) and lucas had the ball in the opposition half a lot.

Besides, he still puts forward some good fucking passes, even from his deep role!

 

[themn]

Jr Windever: Sucked In.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=themn link=topic=47619.msg1430951#msg1430951 date=1322048632]
Jr Windever: Sucked In.
[/quote]

I always am with lucas

it sickens me

 

[Rosco]

I cant wait til Lucas is captain, it'll just confirm what is already becoming apparent. We are a bit of a joke

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47619.msg1430954#msg1430954 date=1322048829]
I cant wait til Lucas is captain, it'll just confirm what is already becoming apparent. We are a bit of a joke
[/quote]

 

[Mystic]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47619.msg1430954#msg1430954 date=1322048829]
I cant wait til Lucas is captain, it'll just confirm what is already becoming apparent. We are a bit of a joke
[/quote]

I don't think Lucas will come captain anytime soon. I think Reina, Agger, Adam, Kuyt if he plays more and maybe even Suarez would be in line before him.